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India/Islam: Muslims lag behind then other minorities in India

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Yes, it is tragic that the Muslims of Gujarat, Sikhs of 1984 & countless other examples didn't have the option of fleeing off somewhere else, and had to succumb to the fate of death. If they had an option of fleeing elsewhere, I am sure they would have taken it. India is notoriously famous for having large scale riots (where non-Hindu groups suffer) every decade on average.

Oh please..both Punjab & Gujurat shares border with Pakistan. They would have fled to Pakistan just like your Bengali brothers did in 1971 when they fled to India..but they realized that inspite of all the problems they are well off in India than in Pakistan where they will be called Muhajirs and treated as 2nd class citizens.
 
It's pretty well-known that the people who stayed behind in present day India from UP, Bihar, other places were all lower class, illiterate, backward, poor people; who didn't have the resources to go to Pakistan. That is why UP, which was a prosperous state one time, has become renowned for its "Muslim slums & ghettos" today. In some few cases, some people opted to stay back in India because they had land/established family businesses. But by in large, if those people in India had the resources to migrate, they would have taken it. Same is the case, countless Sikhs fled from 1984 to avoid the massacre, & the ones that didn't have the resources to flee were slaughtered. Most religious groups (besides Indian Hindus) in India have had to face this massacre every decade on average.

Then you should really thank our wonderful democracy and secularism that today Indian Muslims are much better off than the Pakistani Muslims on every parameter.

Be it literacy, income, security, freedom of religion.

And freedom not to be killed in the bus or their mosques just because of their sects.
 
Exactly, the questions were not to you as an individual but as a Shia.

Now again, reply to the questions and see where you went wrong.

It's not a problem with Shias & Sunnis, I have had no problems living anywhere in Pakistan as a practicing Shia. In fact, the recent trends of sectarian violence show that Shia extremist groups have killed more than Sunni extremist groups have killed Shias over the last few years. So, it is not a matter of Shia or Sunni, or being any group for that matter. It depends on how a certain individual, & how he/she behaves.
 
It's pretty well-known that the people who stayed behind in present day India from UP, Bihar, other places were all lower class, illiterate, backward, poor people; who didn't have the resources to go to Pakistan. That is why UP, which was a prosperous state one time, has become renowned for its "Muslim slums & ghettos" today. In some few cases, some people opted to stay back in India because they had land/established family businesses. But by in large, if those people in India had the resources to migrate, they would have taken it. Same is the case, countless Sikhs fled from 1984 to avoid the massacre, & the ones that didn't have the resources to flee were slaughtered. Most religious groups (besides Indian Hindus) in India have had to face this massacre every decade on average.

Pakistan is formed as a homeland to Indian Muslims. Its your duty to take in all of Muslims in Indian Sub continent, no matter what.
 
Then you should really thank our wonderful democracy and secularism that today Indian Muslims are much better off than the Pakistani Muslims on every parameter.

Be it literacy, income, security, freedom of religion.

I agree that Indian Muslims fare better than Pakistani Muslims on literacy. But the ironic thing is, Indian Muslims are the new untouchables of India today in all fields of life (besides jail), and fare even worse than Dalits; forget comparing them to Pakistani Muslims.
 
It's not a problem with Shias & Sunnis, I have had no problems living anywhere in Pakistan as a practicing Shia. In fact, the recent trends of sectarian violence show that Shia extremist groups have killed more than Sunni extremist groups have killed Shias over the last few years. So, it is not a matter of Shia or Sunni, or being any group for that matter. It depends on how a certain individual, & how he/she behaves.

Exactly..so pls stop generalizing based on some isolated incidents.
 
It's pretty well-known that the people who stayed behind in present day India from UP, Bihar, other places were all lower class, illiterate, backward, poor people; who didn't have the resources to go to Pakistan. That is why UP, which was a prosperous state one time, has become renowned for its "Muslim slums & ghettos" today. In some few cases, some people opted to stay back in India because they had land/established family businesses. But by in large, if those people in India had the resources to migrate, they would have taken it. Same is the case, countless Sikhs fled from 1984 to avoid the massacre, & the ones that didn't have the resources to flee were slaughtered. Most religious groups (besides Indian Hindus) in India have had to face this massacre every decade on average.

:pop: Is that what they are teaching in Pakistani schools these days?

Did you know that Aziz Premji's (the richest self made Muslim in the world) Dad was a very influential industrialist in 1947 and when he was offered by Jinnah to come and set up his industries in Pakistan, he rejected Jinnah for India?

Are you aware that even Pakistani Muslims like Shah Rukh Khan's grandfather migrated from Peshawar to India, because even they believed in the secular India dream?

Do you know that every month Pakistani Sikhs and Christians even today are applying for Indian visas and citizenships to escape the religious hatred they face in your country?

And let me not even get started on Pakistani Hindus, or even worse your so called Bengali "brothers" :P...

Oh well, haters gonna hate... :whistle:
 
I agree that Indian Muslims fare better than Pakistani Muslims on literacy. But the ironic thing is, Indian Muslims are the new untouchables of India today in all fields of life (besides jail), and fare even worse than Dalits; forget comparing them to Pakistani Muslims.

If Indian Muslims think that they can get jobs based on their Madrassa education, they will remain to be untouchables.
 
It's pretty well-known that the people who stayed behind in present day India from UP, Bihar, other places were all lower class, illiterate, backward, poor people; who didn't have the resources to go to Pakistan. That is why UP, which was a prosperous state one time, has become renowned for its "Muslim slums & ghettos" today. In some few cases, some people opted to stay back in India because they had land/established family businesses. But by in large, if those people in India had the resources to migrate, they would have taken it. Same is the case, countless Sikhs fled from 1984 to avoid the massacre, & the ones that didn't have the resources to flee were slaughtered. Most religious groups (besides Indian Hindus) in India have had to face this massacre every decade on average.

those guys who dint went t the Pakistan are more hapier & feel more secure here in India & about sikhs well apart from some clowns in cannadda & vilayat most of them love to be Indians & just to tell how indians who went to pakistan are called Mujahirs(asylum seekers, refugees) even to this day but those hindus & sikhs who came from eastern punjab are called indians or in some extreme cases as punjabies...so sir kindly chill & have a bhayankar thandee beer:cheers:
 
It's not a problem with Shias & Sunnis, I have had no problems living anywhere in Pakistan as a practicing Shia. In fact, the recent trends of sectarian violence show that Shia extremist groups have killed more than Sunni extremist groups have killed Shias over the last few years. So, it is not a matter of Shia or Sunni, or being any group for that matter. It depends on how a certain individual, & how he/she behaves.

Really?

Who are you trying to kid? Shia professionals have been "chun chun ke" killed for decades in Pakistani cities, especially doctors. Same for Ahmedias.

Eighteen bloodied bodies, shot Gestapo-style, lay by the roadside. Men in army uniforms had stopped four buses bound from Rawalpindi to Gilgit, demanding that all 117 persons on board alight.Those with Shia sounding names on their national identification cards were separated out. Minutes later it was all over; the earlier massacres of Hazara Shias in Mastung and Quetta had been repeated.

But with Shias and Ahmadis it was different. Whatever they might feel now, they were enthusiastic about Pakistan. Mr Jinnah, born a Gujrati Shia Muslim, believed that Muslims and Hindus could never live together peacefully but that Muslims, of course, could. Chaudhry Zafarullah Khan, an Ahmadi leader, was commended by Jinnah for having eloquently argued the Two-Nation theory, and then appointed by him in 1947 as Pakistan’s first foreign minister. Mr Jinnah died early, but Zafarullah Khan lived long enough to see disillusionment. The inevitable had happened: once the partition was complete, the question of which version of Islam was correct became bitterly contentious.

Until recently, Pakistan’s Shias did not have the self-image of a religious minority. They had joined Sunnis in supporting Mr Bhutto’s 1974 decision to declare Ahmadis as non-Muslim. But now they are worried. The Tribal Areas are convulsed in sectarian warfare: Kurram, Parachinar and Hangu (in the settled districts) are killing grounds for both Sunni and Shia, but with most casualties being Shia. City life has also become increasingly insecure and segregated; Karachi’s Shia neighborhoods are visibly barricaded and fortified.

But while Shias are numerous enough to put up a defence, Ahmadis are not. Last month, a raging 5,000-strong mob descended upon their sole worship place in Satellite Town, Rawalpindi. Organised by the Jamaat-i-Islami, various leaders from Jamaat-ud-Dawa, Lashkar-e-Taiba and Sipah-e-Sahaba addressed the rally demanding the worship place’s security cameras and protective barricades be removed. The police agreed with the mob’s demands, advising the Ahmadis to cease praying. The worship place has now been closed down.


Even dead Ahmadis are not spared: news had reached the Khatm-e-Nabuwat that Nadia Hanif, a 17-year old school teacher who had died of illness ten days ago, was actually an Ahmadi but buried in a Muslim graveyard in Chanda Singh village, Kasur. Her grave was promptly dug up, and the body removed for reburial.

At the Multan DPC rally on February 17, Khatm-e-Nabuwat leaders bayed for Ahmadi blood while sharing the stage with the famed Malik Ishaq, a self-acclaimed Shia-killer. Newspaper reports say Ishaq was freed last year after frightened judges treated him like a guest in the courtroom, offering him tea and biscuits. One judge attempted to hide his face with his hands. But after Ishaq read out the names of his children, the judge abandoned the trial.

Run for your life – The Express Tribune

Another one by your favorite Musharraf.

You can go a few more years earlier in 1984 when General Zia sent his notorious lashkar led and supervised by no other than Brigadier Musharraf aka General Musharraf, the enlightened, the moderate. This proto-Talibanic lashkar not just burnt alive hundreds of the Shias of Gilgit, it burnt alive the animals too owned by the Shias. Of course, this can be justified because those animals were not human, Muslim, or Pakistani.

Talibanization of the heart | Pak Tea House

As an Iraqi, it is disingenuous of you to cry over india when so much is going on in your own Iraq. Thousands and thousands of Shia being butchered for their sect by other Islamists.

And you are shedding tears for distant India!
 
It's pretty well-known that the people who stayed behind in present day India from UP, Bihar, other places were all lower class, illiterate, backward, poor people; who didn't have the resources to go to Pakistan. That is why UP, which was a prosperous state one time, has become renowned for its "Muslim slums & ghettos" today. In some few cases, some people opted to stay back in India because they had land/established family businesses. But by in large, if those people in India had the resources to migrate, they would have taken it. Same is the case, countless Sikhs fled from 1984 to avoid the massacre, & the ones that didn't have the resources to flee were slaughtered. Most religious groups (besides Indian Hindus) in India have had to face this massacre every decade on average.

I am happy to see that they stayed back particularly what deadly fate suffered by our common Bihari community and the ethnic tension unleashed by Sindhi nationalists. In 1993 some Biharis were allowed to migrate to Pakistan, they were welcomed by bomb-blast and black flags.


 
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those guys who dint went t the Pakistan are more hapier & feel more secure here in India & about sikhs well apart from some clowns in cannadda & vilayat most of them love to be Indians & just to tell how indians who went to pakistan are called Mujahirs(asylum seekers, refugees) even to this day but those hindus & sikhs who came from eastern punjab are called indians or in some extreme cases as punjabies...so sir kindly chill & have a bhayankar thandee beer:cheers:

Are' bhai/didi, my mother is a prime example of someone born & raised in India, & surrendering her Indian citizenship when she married my Dad, & couldn't be happier about it. Mohajirs are the most prosperous & powerful group in Pakistan. They control the economic center of Pakistan (Karachi). They are proud Pakistanis, & would scoff at the thought of even going back to India.

Sikhs that fled from India got a second life, & the ones that didn't have enough resources to flee were slaughtered in huge numbers, some people say 50,000+.
 
I agree that Indian Muslims fare better than Pakistani Muslims on literacy. But the ironic thing is, Indian Muslims are the new untouchables of India today in all fields of life (besides jail), and fare even worse than Dalits; forget comparing them to Pakistani Muslims.

The majority of them are Dalit converts, so socio economic conditions will be same.

The India Dalits are also doing far better than Pakistani Muislims.

You as a Muhajir are looked down upon and held in racial contempt in Pakistan. No point denying.

If your Arab ancestors ever married a local Muslim, even you likely have a bit of Dalit blood. No shame in admitting that.

Or they never married a local convert at all?
 
Really?

Who are you trying to kid? Shia professionals have been "chun chun ke" killed for decades in Pakistani cities, especially doctors. Same for Ahmedias.



Run for your life – The Express Tribune

Another one by your favorite Musharraf.



Talibanization of the heart | Pak Tea House

As an Iraqi, it is disingenuous of you to cry over india when so much is going on in your own Iraq. Thousands and thousands of Shia being butchered for their sect by other Islamists.

And you are shedding tears for distant India!

Pakistan has been hosting Saudi Arabia-Iran's proxy war in its country for a long time, citizens belonging to all ethnic/religious groups & backgrounds have suffered proportionately, unlike India where non-Hindu groups get killed in the thousands every decade, & Hindus don't.
 
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