India Is Buying 36 Rafale Fighters from France (and Pakistan Should Worry)

[Basel]

thats was the 90s




since are we counting navy.
typical indian mentality, HMD might give you some edge but doesnt change much in the era of BVRS ,
do the f--22 have those ?

all f-16s have HMD and very advance latest aim 9M

PAF doesnt need to match iaf in 1:1,
its not di**k measuring contest, we need enough to stop a "sir gee kal" strikes and enough to prolong the war for nuclear game to come in play,
Alas india cant pull up another 1971 (10:1 odds attack) now as its *** is going to burn

even if india outnumbers us 1:3 that doesn't worry us(well it outnumbered as 1:3 in 1965), its still a pretty healthy ratio, are you saying india is going to loose half of its air-force, and Pakistan most of it and even than neither country is going to itch to hit the other with nukes

you should be worried about china it outnumbers you guys by 1:10, instead of measuring your di**k with child do it with someone of your own size lol

look up your MOD report and it states the number of parity is all time worse as compared to pakistan, by 2025 we might be operating the same number of 20 squardons lol


1.not sure Nasr will be useful in terrian of Northern areas
2.china will not come to help to any country
3.india doesn't has the capability to over run Pakistan/Kashmir look at kargil or it would have done so, example, Bangladesh, it saw a chance and it did
4. i would want PAF to focus on thunders, increase the rate to 25/yr and induct as many of second hand f-16s, get hand on HMD for thunder and fifth gen BVR for f-16s/thunders either from USA or third country(europe, turkey, southafrica). also a standard light cruise missile weapon(200-250km), standarad cluster ammunitions and a dedicated antitank weapon.
I still believe Army needs to sacrifice some of its heavy acquisitions like gunships and artillery for the airforce

Nasr with nukes will have deadly effect (if used on IOK to tackle IA thrust) only issue is where and what height is appropriate.

China may not enter war but it will make sure that Pakistan make it extremely bloody for India, aggressive deployment at border and at Arabian Sea is very possible from Chinese military to put pressure on India.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Situation is bad but not as bad that India can overrun AJK or GB, this kind of situation will bring in use of systems like Nasr, if you can understand what I mean



How much force India can deploy on Pakistani border?? Can you ignore China who is investing 46+50=96 billion $$ in Pakistan, will they allow all that go in drain and loss of very important route which allow them bypassing Malaca Strait in any hostile situation.?

Plus "extreme wish" to be a 2-ocean power like the USA with fully integrated hinterlands having coast-to-coast road/rail networks!!!!

 

[Readerdefence]

Patriotic chest thumping aside, just how much money have India and Pakistan spent on acquiring weapons to destroy each other over the years. I understand the necessity given their acrimony but imagine the healthcare, education, water and infrastructure that could have been provided to citizens on both sides if as our founding leaders wanted, the two countries were formed to peacefully co-exist.

So in that case getting rafale is irrelevant coz you putting more pressure for Pakistan
To do something about its defence hopefully you agree to this
Thx

 

[punit]

Currently, India’s air force can deploy in large part outdated Russian-built Sukhoi 30-MKI fighters to challenge superior Pakistani F-16s.

stopped after reading this !!

 

[ziaulislam]

if we cant get new weapons like AIM 120D or atleast aim9X
alternatively, if we cant integrate third party weapons like European or Turkish options if above fails than i dont see much point in getting more f-16s
better to look to improve the thunder or if finances permit look for combo deal for used and new typhoons
i am not sure how much will the j-10 bring on to the table, though the chinese flanker series give us an option of dept and range

 

[Readerdefence]

Looks like MODS want Indians to have marry go round

 

[assassin123]

Actually this is the F-16 keeping the enemy awake.


View attachment 396815

Ya 16 of them vs 283 su 30 mki's. good luck

 

[SQ8]

How that disadvantge can be minimized if not completely blasted?

In that case how much MAR-1 and anyother chinese high speed Anti Radiation missile will be useful?

That will be surely a matter of time may be at max 5 to 7 years, we will have that advantage.

You cannot take the critical military cantonments out of areas near the border and more them back because they have their own benefits. You cannot move Islamabad or Kamra for that matter, you cannot take the oil tanks at kemari or mills or factories away from their critical areas.
You could build multiple dispersal assets but that takes a lot of money,

Either way, the fertile plains of Punjab and Sindh are close to the border, that is where the key population lives and hence the communication lines are and hence important to defend.

You think the western route of CPEC is being built just because of the poor pathan or Baloch?
There is a strategic imperitive to it that people in the deeper state understand but the Punjabi feudal doesn't get and his counterpart in all other ethnicities blame him for it.

As put quite well in another article on a thread here, these elite will continue to wage economic and class warfare on the rest of Pakistan until they have finally had their fill and more- by then Pakistan will be done for- and its ignorant and idiotic masses deserve it 110%..

But I digress, the ARM assets are plenty and can be expanded to accomodate the S-400. But those systems are easy to move further back just by the very threat to them which will make the baniya next door want to preseve them for their imagined(well not really, but its not happening tomorrow as per their imagination) clash with the Chinese.

That leaves the barak and Akash(currently having issues per grapevine with actual missile availability and QA issues). These we have good assets to deal with(our Ad is laughable compared to India so they don't need as many AR assets.

Ill refrain from commenting on the third part

 

[assassin123]

If you want to work by numbers then at least get your facts right, after MLU programme, all PAF F-16s are close to Block-52 standard......ironically in the most recent confrontation, it wasn't F-16 that squared upto the MKI....and made it leave the area.

Kindly provide source.or this must be your usual bs stories.

 

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

Plus "extreme wish" to be a 2-ocean power like the USA with fully integrated hinterlands having coast-to-coast road/rail networks!!!!

You talking about Railway network-

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

You talking about Railway network-

In fact, I was talking about the Chinese dreams!!!

 

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

But I digress, the ARM assets are plenty and can be expanded to accomodate the S-400. But those systems are easy to move further back just by the very threat to them which will make the baniya next door want to preseve them for their imagined(well not really, but its not happening tomorrow as per their imagination) clash with the Chinese.

That leaves the barak and Akash(currently having issues per grapevine with actual missile availability and QA issues). These we have good assets to deal with(our Ad is laughable compared to India so they don't need as many AR assets.

S-400's effectiveness is reduced when operating in the shadows of the Himalayan ranges- Akash, Barak, QR-SAM are better suited in those areas and Chinese have very less Air force activity in Tibet- Perhaps to defend key Indian cities from Ballistic missile attacks in the North East- But then our eastern neighbors are very sensible-

There are different systems coming in addition to Akash and Barak- Akash Itself has two new versions coming- then there's QR-SAM based on Astra BVRAAM- and Spyder from Israel- You can expect India requesting David's Sling from Trump and Netanyahu this year-

In fact, I was talking about the Chinese dreams!!!

Okay-

 

[ghazi768]

TRY AGAIN

250 su30 mki
50 Mirage 2000
63 mig29 smt
42 mig29k navy

versis

80 Thunders with no Helmet mounted display or Hobs missles
73 F16 ( only 18 new Block 52 ) the rest are partial upgraded block 50s still usimng same old engines and a reworked apg63 radar not the apg 69 which is three times as powerful on the block 52

The SU30MKI availability rate is 70%

I doubt the F16 is higher as 70% availibility rate is standard. globally

I have seen you consistently spewing this mis-information about MLUed F-16, here..have it straight from horses mouth i.e. US DSCA notification to congress:

Item 3: F-16A/B Mid-Life Update Modification Kits – $1.3 billion

The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of 60 F-16A/B MLU and Falcon Star Structural Service Life Enhancement kits consisting of:

APG-68v9 with Synthetic Aperture Radar or the APG-66(V)2 radar, which is a much smaller improvement on earlier F-16s. The APG-68 with SAR is far better at air to ground work, and can be used to monitor ground activity.
Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS)

AN/APX-113 Advanced Identification Friend or Foe Systems
AN/ALE-47 Advanced Countermeasures Dispenser Systems
Have Quick I/II Radios
Link-16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System-Low Volume Terminals (MIDS-LVT) SNIPER (formerly known as AN/AAQ-33 PANTERA) targeting pod capability Reconnaissance pod capability

Advanced Air Combat Maneuvering Instrumentation Units (used for training exercises)
MDE included in the MLU modification and structural upgrade kits
21 ALQ-131 Block II Electronic Countermeasures Pods without the Digital Radio Frequency Memory (DRFM); or ALQ-184 Electronic Countermeasures Pods without DRFM;
60 ALQ-213 Electronic Warfare Management Systems;
1 Unit Level Trainer; and
10 APG-68v9 spare radar sets.
Radars, modems, receivers, installation, avionics, spare and repair parts, support equipment, CONUS-personnel training and training equipment, technical assistance, publications and technical documentation, system drawings, U.S. Government and contractor engineering, and other related logistics elements necessary for full program support.

 

[assassin123]

We already have severely contested airspace above 3000ft all the way in most critical areas of the border thanks to a very well built up IAF air defence ground environment-with both low and high altitude radars(incl aerostats) covering most of our airspace coupled with aew.

The introducton of the S-400 is a threat but its usage is limited in its effectiveness that in an all out conflict, the IAF will need excellent knowledge of threats and friendly during anything involving engagements that have both sides operating in close proximity. If they use IFF too frequently they end up giving their position away to our Air Def assets that are positioned to take advantage of this quite well.



The Sukhois dont worry us as such except their ability to circumvent our AD coverage and assets by taking long flanking routes to attack. The F-16s can handle them pretty ok within our own airspace, and as Chinese exersizes have shown(the radars on the Mk2 and MKI are comparable in A2A), the Su-30 has trouble picking out a JF until the JF is about close enough and engaging.
IAF famboys

Hmm... Firstly the su 30 mkk(Chinese) and and su 30mki are two different aircraft the electronic suit on mki is far more advanced than the former.the Israeli ecm suit can jam the paf radars.
Now,On the radars
The mki uses n001-m bars radar which is a pesa radar while the mkk uses a normal msa radar both are very different with the bars being a while lot better.
And I don't know where you read that the iaf has aging pilots. There was a shortage of officers some time ago but I think now the problem has been sorted out.

 

[SQ8]

S-400's effectiveness is reduced when operating in the shadows of the Himalayan ranges- Akash, Barak, QR-SAM are better suited in those areas and Chinese have very less Air force activity in Tibet- Perhaps to defend key Indian cities from Ballistic missile attacks in the North East- But then our eastern neighbors are very sensible-

There are different systems coming in addition to Akash and Barak- Akash Itself has two new versions coming- then there's QR-SAM based on Astra BVRAAM- and Spyder from Israel- You can expect India requesting David's Sling from Trump and Netanyahu this year-



Okay-

Not saying they put these systems at the base of the mountains , but they operate as a layered system.
The Chinese are fairly confident operating their Hq-9s and S-300s there, but then what do 25 year old operators of these systems know.

Hmm... Firstly the su 30 mkk(Chinese) and and su 30mki are two different aircraft the electronic suit on mki is far more advanced than the former.the Israeli ecm suit can jam the paf radars.
Now,On the radars
The mki uses n001-m bars radar which is a pesa radar while the mkk uses a normal msa radar both are very different with the bars being a while lot better.
And I don't know where you read that the iaf has aging pilots. There was a shortage of officers some time ago but I think now the problem has been sorted out.

Ok, you did read the part about not quoting me with usual copy paste "my dog is better than your dog arguments right"

Please practice it for all future posts of mine
Appreciated