India Is Buying 36 Rafale Fighters from France (and Pakistan Should Worry)

[Windjammer]

18 brand new f16 block 52,

Versis

272 brand new mki flankers

OK so how does this work

If you want to work by numbers then at least get your facts right, after MLU programme, all PAF F-16s are close to Block-52 standard......ironically in the most recent confrontation, it wasn't F-16 that squared upto the MKI....and made it leave the area.

 

[Great Sachin]

Lets buy some out dated Rafale also..

 

[Hulk]

with Indian pilots on controls, LOL.
Have you been following recent events on LOC....I guess not.

Yes, like 16th December 1971 when Pakistan Army was telling their country that they are beating the shit out of India, they are doing the same at LOC now.

 

[Windjammer]

Yes, like 16th December 1971 when Pakistan Army was telling their country that they are beating the shit out of India, they are doing the same at LOC now.

That was before our life time, and the PA was fighting 1000 miles away from home against a seven times bigger enemy who had to rely on Muktis help.
Why not enlighten your self with more recent events so you don't ridicule yourself.

Indian army 'backed out' of Pakistan attack
http://www.worldsecuritynetwork.com...ava/Indian-army-backed-out-of-Pakistan-attack

 

[SQ8]

The Rafale is the true threat to the PAF, everything else the PAF has a handle on.

 

[Sine Nomine]

The Rafale is the true threat to the PAF, everything else the PAF has a handle on.

What's your opinion sir, More F-16's,A new fighter from J series,JFT blk3 tailored for that purpose,More SAM batteries or something else.

 

[Panzerkampf]

Why not enlighten your self with more recent events so you don't ridicule yourself.

As for Operation Parakram, it was a gigantic sucess it forced Pakistan to vastly reduce militant infiltration into Kashmir:

Ny times confirmed that Indian created entire mobilization to coerce Pakistan to reduce militant infiltration into Kashmir and it worked perfect3:

Many specialists believe that the Indian deployments were an exercise in coercive diplomacy -- a giant bluff to persuade General Musharraf to clamp down on Pakistani terrorists and to frighten Washington into taking India's demands seriously. But India's military preparations were so extensive that the Pentagon found it difficult to tell if the Indians were simply posturing or putting themselves in position to attack.

''I think from the beginning this has been a massive exercise in coercive diplomacy,'' said Stephen P. Cohen, an expert on South Asia at the Brookings Institution. ''The Indians used the threat of war to force Pakistan to back down. They have come out ahead -- as long as nobody makes a mistake.''

 

[AlphaRomeo93]

Pakistan should either upgrade jf17 to Block 3 program or set up J31 factory in Pakistan on immediate basis.

 

[S.Y.A]

As for Operation Parakram, it was a gigantic sucess it forced Pakistan to vastly reduce militant infiltration into Kashmir:

Ny times confirmed that Indian created entire mobilization to coerce Pakistan to reduce militant infiltration into Kashmir and it worked perfect3:

that did not happen because of you, that happened because of the US.

 

[Windjammer]

As for Operation Parakram, it was a gigantic sucess it forced Pakistan to vastly reduce militant infiltration into Kashmir:

Ny times confirmed that Indian created entire mobilization to coerce Pakistan to reduce militant infiltration into Kashmir and it worked perfect3:

I love me....who do you love.
NY Times said this, Tom, Dick & Harry acknowledged that.
Why not listen to what Gupta had to say on all of the futile exercise which resulted in some 1000 Indian casualties.

'Operation Parakram was the most punishing mistake'
Last updated on: November 4, 2011 19:36 IST
"Operation Parakram" in 2001 was the "most punishing mistake" for the armed forces, former Navy chief Admiral Sushil Kumar said on Friday, maintaining the government then lacked any political aim or objective for deploying the army along the Indo-Pakistan border.



"There was no aim or military objective for the Operation Parakram... I don't mind admitting that Operation Parakram was the most punishing mistake for the Indian Armed Forces," Kumar said in New Delhi, addressing a seminar on 'Limited wars in South Asia-Against a nuclear background'.



Operation Parakram, the 11-month-long border stand-off, took place soon after the December 13, 2001 terror attack on Parliament.

 

[Hulk]

That was before our life time, and the PA was fighting 1000 miles away from home against a seven times bigger enemy who had to rely on Muktis help.
Why not enlighten your self with more recent events so you don't ridicule yourself.

Indian army 'backed out' of Pakistan attack
http://www.worldsecuritynetwork.com...ava/Indian-army-backed-out-of-Pakistan-attack

I totally understand 1971 was not easy for Pakistan, was highlighting that they tell their people inaccurate things, so whatever you might be hearing might not be accurate.

I am totally aware of it, I do not live in the dellusioned world. I live in world with reality.
1) India is not prepared for war but so is Pakistan. Hope you are not delusional that Pakistan is all hunky dory.
2) Cost of war is huge, both countries cannot bear, it will lead to billions of dollars of loan that we will pay for coming years.

Do you know the impact of the economy of 1971 war on both countries, find out about our economy before and after.
This is where India behaves more sensibly and does not go to war. We could easily invest more on defense but we logically think.

 

[Syed Mukkarram]

Pakistan have no answers for rafale. Lets be realistic. Secondly 76 f-16 cant beat 272 su30. So it depends on indian strategies whether they want to be aggressive and takeover Azad Kashmir and GB or allow Pakistan to gain some time to think and breath. Anyway we need some new technologies plus numbers which we dont have curently now.

 

[Sully3]

I totally understand 1971 was not easy for Pakistan, was highlighting that they tell their people inaccurate things, so whatever you might be hearing might not be accurate.

I am totally aware of it, I do not live in the dellusioned world. I live in world with reality.
1) India is not prepared for war but so is Pakistan. Hope you are not delusional that Pakistan is all hunky dory.
2) Cost of war is huge, both countries cannot bear, it will lead to billions of dollars of loan that we will pay for coming years.

Do you know the impact of the economy of 1971 war on both countries, find out about our economy before and after.
This is where India behaves more sensibly and does not go to war. We could easily invest more on defense but we logically think.

you keep talking about 71 yet you temple educated indians forget what china did to your Aksai Chin and how indian soldiers surrendered their land and themselves to the chinese

 

[Panzerkampf]

I love me....who do you love.
NY Times said this, Tom, Dick & Harry acknowledged that.
Why not listen to what Gupta had to say on all of the futile exercise which resulted in some 1000 Indian casualties.

'Operation Parakram was the most punishing mistake'
Last updated on: November 4, 2011 19:36 IST
"Operation Parakram" in 2001 was the "most punishing mistake" for the armed forces, former Navy chief Admiral Sushil Kumar said on Friday, maintaining the government then lacked any political aim or objective for deploying the army along the Indo-Pakistan border.



"There was no aim or military objective for the Operation Parakram... I don't mind admitting that Operation Parakram was the most punishing mistake for the Indian Armed Forces," Kumar said in New Delhi, addressing a seminar on 'Limited wars in South Asia-Against a nuclear background'.



Operation Parakram, the 11-month-long border stand-off, took place soon after the December 13, 2001 terror attack on Parliament.

Who cares about few casualties due to accidents, when operation parakram reduced militant infiltration by 90%.

that did not happen because of you, that happened because of the US.

It happened because of OP parakram by us.

 

[SQ8]

What's your opinion sir, More F-16's,A new fighter from J series,JFT blk3 tailored for that purpose,More SAM batteries or something else.

There is no tailored requirment. Its adjustment of current assets and future procurement plans to offset the impact the Rafale has on the overall threat matrix.

We already have severely contested airspace above 3000ft all the way in most critical areas of the border thanks to a very well built up IAF air defence ground environment-with both low and high altitude radars(incl aerostats) covering most of our airspace coupled with aew.

The introducton of the S-400 is a threat but its usage is limited in its effectiveness that in an all out conflict, the IAF will need excellent knowledge of threats and friendly during anything involving engagements that have both sides operating in close proximity. If they use IFF too frequently they end up giving their position away to our Air Def assets that are positioned to take advantage of this quite well.

Quite frankly, both airforces are switching to stand off with the PAF having a quiet lead here but the IAF is catching up fast. The Rafale and Hammer combo is deadly and the PAF's greatest disadvantage is not assets as much as lack of depth. Everything useful is within striking range via moderately placed IAF assets within their border. That means the while current IAF pilots are not upto speed on their newly procured stand off assets(the procurement under the gemstone moniker is limited to a one or two squadrons) , they can still easily pop off most important assets near the border without even crossing it.
Here's the catch though, so can we and until the Rafale becomes operational- in greater asset numbers. Which is why the S-400 comes in because the IAF wants to force our low and high flying stand off assets to launch even further behind the border(or FOrward lines).

The Sukhois dont worry us as such except their ability to circumvent our AD coverage and assets by taking long flanking routes to attack. The F-16s can handle them pretty ok within our own airspace, and as Chinese exersizes have shown(the radars on the Mk2 and MKI are comparable in A2A), the Su-30 has trouble picking out a JF until the JF is about close enough and engaging.
IAF famboys(you know who you are, ones with the butt itch every time India is mentioned) , don't waste my time quoting me with your usual copy paste tripe.

So the problem then comes down not to assets but location of assets- The IAF can take hits at its forward bases and still operate but the PAF cannot. In a skirmish, despite procurement- we'll bleed them badly even if we lose more than them.
In an all out war, we'll bleed them and hurt them quite a bit- which will hurt them for years to come. But that will only last a week or so and then simple attrition will take its toll.

Our greatest advantage is the aging of current IAF pilots and shortages of nee ones. Thosr coming out now are every bit as motivated and trained as ours, but currently are less than required to generate effective sorties and recoup losses per squadron in wartime. Their tactics rely on using numerical superiority to rotate squadrons on the front to keep up with our ability to generate more missions per hour than them on a squadron basis( their anti-sleep and anti-fatigue research publicized recently has less to do with long range and mroe to do with keeping their limited pilots effective for longer)