India irked as China gets Pakistan's strategic Gwadar port

[for truth]

Maybe not, but the point is that we are trying.

It's better to try and fail, rather than not trying at all.

We are making a bet, that it can be good for us in the long run. Maybe we will loose that bet, but at least we tried.

i was not against china trying, nor i ever said that china will loose, but i was just cautioning on not to rely on an ally Pakistan, in simple words, Pakistan has its own plans in central Asia, and that plan is simple " Muslim brother hood", and china has its own plans in central Asia, that is -dominance, business, connectivity, resource, energy security and many other, so, you can cleanly see that Pakistan's 'great' strategic vision is incompatible with china's, the last thing china, US and Russia would want to see in central Asia is another Pakistan, an islamised and radicalized central Asia like Pakistan will not usher good for china,nor US nor Russia.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Well whats the Chinese Govt view on it, Google said Chinese government constructed the port but quit operating after chinese were killled in 2004,06 and latest in 2011.

What makes you think the response is different this time.

The security situation in that area is a big concern, and the Chinese Government HATES risk of any kind. East Asian/Confucian societies are typically very risk averse and like to take the route with the lowest risk.

But now we have no choice except to take risks. There are no alternatives if we are to diversify our resource and trade routes.

And as before, risk is usually correlated with reward. If we take the big risk, then we get a chance at having a big reward. If we lose, then that sucks but it's a part of life and business.

Being too risk averse has led to us sitting on a time bomb of "safe" US and EU bonds (to the tune of $3.2 trillion), which in recent times have been discovered to be no longer safe.

 

[indushek]

No need to overreact on Pakistan's Gwadar port: Salman Khurshid


India Friday on said there was no need to "overreact" to issues like Pakistan transferring the management of the strategic Gwadar port from Singapore to China.

"I don't think we should overreact to everything that Pakistan does or everything that China is involved in. We need to take these matters in our stride and in the normal course," external affairs minister Salman Khurshid said in New Delhi.

"There are some things which have pure, simple and commercial dimensions and some things which have strategic dimensions. But these are things which one should consider in the normal course when we know exactly what we are dealing with," he said.

He added: "There is a delicate balance in the entire region and I think none of us should be doing something which will upset that balance."

Pakistan has decided to hand over the management control of the strategic Gwadar port to a Chinese company. The deep-sea port is on the Arabian Sea at Gwadar in Balochistan province of Pakistan.

To a retired Pakistani general's comment on the Kargil conflict, Khurshid said: "I don't want to be in constant conversation with retired Pakistani generals. They have their own way of settling scores among themselves and sometimes with India."

"The defence minister also said we should not do anything in haste. Let's look at things as they shape. Let's wait for things to normalise in due course," he said.

No need to overreact on Pakistan's Gwadar port: Salman Khurshid - India - DNA

 

[Cheetah786]

i was not against china trying, nor i ever said that china will loose, but i was just cautioning on not to rely on an ally Pakistan, in simple words, Pakistan has its own plans in central Asia, and that plan is simple " Muslim brother hood", and china has its own plans in central Asia, that is -dominance, business, connectivity, resource, energy security and many other, so, you can cleanly see that Pakistan's 'great' strategic vision is incompatible with china's, the last thing china, US and Russia would want to see in central Asia is another Pakistan, an islamised and radicalized central Asia like Pakistan will not usher good for china,nor US nor Russia.

Which country elected a Extremist Religious party to run its Government was it pakistan or India . I BJP a extremist Religious party.

 

[indushek]

While the Indian govt might be looking in to the possible security repercussions for us, i doubt we are irked or apprehensive. The port anyways would take some time to develop properly wrt international traffic and the role of Chinese will be observed by not just India but all the regional countries. Finally it is the soverign decision of Pakistan and we have nothing to do with it.

 

[Da-Bang]

The security situation in that area is a big concern, and the Chinese Government HATES risk of any kind. East Asian/Confucian societies are typically very risk averse and like to take the route with the lowest risk.

But now we have no choice except to take risks. There are no alternatives if we are to diversify our resource and trade routes.

And as before, risk is usually correlated with reward. If we take the big risk, then we get a chance at having a big reward. If we lose, then that sucks but it's a part of life and business.

Being too risk averse has led to us sitting on a time bomb of "safe" US and EU bonds (to the tune of $3.2 trillion), which in recent times have been discovered to be no longer safe.

Lets then see Chinese appetite for risk and attached rewards.

I just threw out a theory, lets see where it goes.

As Indian minister said, its normal. Maybe he realizes it too and just wants to see the drama unfold.

Interesting times.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

i was not against china trying, nor i ever said that china will loose, but i was just cautioning on not to rely on an ally Pakistan, in simple words, Pakistan has its own plans in central Asia, and that plan is simple " Muslim brother hood", and china has its own plans in central Asia, that is -dominance, business, connectivity, resource, energy security and many other, so, you can cleanly see that Pakistan's 'great' strategic vision is incompatible with china's, the last thing china, US and Russia would want to see in central Asia is another Pakistan, an islamised and radicalized central Asia like Pakistan will not usher good for china,nor US nor Russia.

what are you talking about?

the CARs are still recovering from years of soviet imposed communism even to this day. Like Pakistan, the CARs have populations that are at times divided on ideological grounds (you have die hard extremists, and then you have die hard secularist types who reject all forms of religion). I wouldnt even put Pakistan and CAR in same category simply because the CARs are closed (control) economies where even muttering anything against the government will have you killed or disappeared. Pakistan is far ahead of these countries and is economically much better off (on a national, but not per capita sense per se).

WHY on earth would we "plan" Muslim brotherhood in that region? This port is about business prospects and regional integration......not preaching "Brotherhood"

So i'm unsure where you came up with this creative idea of yours.

Honestly some of you indians are funny people, you do know that right?

 

[for truth]

Which country elected a Extremist Religious party to run its Government was it pakistan or India . I BJP a extremist Religious party.

you do understand that we are talking about a port here, and next thing,the Russians ,US and china are trying to dominate central Asia,so who gets elected in India is least of their concern, but who should be kept out of the loop in central is their biggest concern, nor the Russians ,nor Americans will be happy to see Pakistanis coming in to central Asia, Americans are not even happy to see Pakistan dominate over Afghanistan, so central Asia is dead issue here. Chinese are tight lipped about their intentions, but you can easily guess that even they don't want islamised or radicalized central Asia.

 

[Developereo]

Add to that the fundamental difference between Peoples of China and Pakistan, one is extremely religious, other is extremey atheist

Since you brought religion into the matter, rest assured that the "dharmic brotherhood" between India and China remains strong against the "Abrahamic" hordes, especially the evil Muslims of Pakistan.

Of course, most Chinese are smart enough to see beyond the "dharmic" charade and only have to ask the Sri Lankan and Nepalese Buddhists how much dharmic love they have seen from India over the decades, including State-sponsored Hindu terrorists who massacred Buddhists in these lands.

 

[muse]

Friends, super conversations:

The article is from the Economic Times, an Indian paper, as the date line indicates.

So here's how it stands now :-

1. Pakistan are a source of Islamic radicalism and China is endangered by this as Pakistan will see to export this radicalism to Central Asia . Here of course we have the prospect of India looking out for China's best interest.

2. Pakistan are an unreliable ally and to be their ally is to take on US and Russia (and India)

But on the other hand, don't the Indian have a point about Pakistan and their deep affection for what the rest of the world recognizes as radicalism?

So how do Pakistan make money or further Pakistani strategic interests by furthering radicalism? Remains to explained, please explain

 

[SpArK]

Stupid ToI header as to claim the irk.

Not a single word in the original article talks anything about any discomfort from the establishment.

The port was handed over because Pakistan is not capable of handling the operations of it as of now , even if its the second biggest.

I dont think it will have much significance, as the port of Karachi has already been at the services of China for long for their use due to warmer relations between both nations

Its not path breaking or the only port, but just another one ... a bit far from Karachi port and from Indian coast.

 

[for truth]

what are you talking about?

the CARs are still recovering from years of soviet imposed communism even to this day. Like Pakistan, the CARs have populations that are at times divided on ideological grounds (you have die hard extremists, and then you have die hard secularist types who reject all forms of religion). I wouldnt even put Pakistan and CAR in same category simply because the CARs are closed (control) economies where even muttering anything against the government will have you killed or disappeared. Pakistan is far ahead of these countries and is economically much better off (on a national, but not per capita sense per se).

WHY on earth would we "plan" Muslim brotherhood in that region? This port is about business prospects and regional integration......not preaching "Brotherhood"So i'm unsure where you came up with this creative idea of yours.
Honestly some of you indians are funny people, you do know that right?

you don't seem to understand here, start reading the regular news for start, many central Asians come to Pakistani terror camps and are trained there, this has been a concern for Russian and other powers, the radicalism has been spreading through central Asia, many reports and news have emerged that indicate and support my point, and lastly, it was not about Pakistan trying to preach "brotherhood", it was about, what Pakistan fails to ensure, i never said Pakistani govt was going to preach " brotherhood", it will be done by the mullahs who have been given refuge in Pakistan, your govt has failed and is totally ineffective, the islamisation and radicalization will be done those who the Pakistani govt cannot go agianst or they don't want to go against. just like what happened in Afghanistan, the mullahs will do the radicalization. And Pakistan is haven for the mullahs and radicals, every mullahs will make once in a lifetime trip to Pakistan.

 

[Cheetah786]

Lets then see Chinese appetite for risk and attached rewards.

I just threw out a theory, lets see where it goes.

As Indian minister said, its normal. Maybe he realizes it too and just wants to see the drama unfold.

Interesting times.

Extremist and the threat they pose to the safety of workers is his argument. But at the same Time i guess same extremist in Afghanistan that cross the border back and forth don't pose any danger to Indians working their.

 

[indushek]

Friends, super conversations:

The article is from the Economic Times, an Indian paper, as the date line indicates.

So here's how it stands now :-

1. Pakistan are a source of Islamic radicalism and China is endangered by this as Pakistan will see to export this radicalism to Central Asia . Here of course we have the prospect of India looking out for China's best interest.

2. Pakistan are an unreliable ally and to be their ally is to take on US and Russia (and India)

But on the other hand, don't the Indian have a point about Pakistan and their deep affection for what the rest of the world recognizes as radicalism?

So how do Pakistan make money or further Pakistani strategic interests by furthering radicalism? Remains to explained, please explain

Sir the article is by TOI and also it doesn't contain the word irk in header. The op has been changed it.

The official line doesn't indicate any aversion, it is seen as your internal matter. The article posted by me above states the view of official line by the Foreign Affairs Minister himself.

 

[for truth]

Friends, super conversations:

The article is from the Economic Times, an Indian paper, as the date line indicates.

So here's how it stands now :-

1. Pakistan are a source of Islamic radicalism and China is endangered by this as Pakistan will see to export this radicalism to Central Asia . Here of course we have the prospect of India looking out for China's best interest.

2. Pakistan are an unreliable ally and to be their ally is to take on US and Russia (and India)

But on the other hand, don't the Indian have a point about Pakistan and their deep affection for what the rest of the world recognizes as radicalism?

So how do Pakistan make money or further Pakistani strategic interests by furthering radicalism? Remains to explained, please explain

it s about what you cannot control, read between the lines pal, the radicalism are already spread through central asia, just go to any Russian news,and you will see they will be complaining about that. Russians have explicitly claimed the Chechen rebels have support form the Taliban in Afghanistan,and you very well know how Chechen rebels have destabilized the bordering regions of Russia, and terror emanating form Afghanistan and Pakistan has been the main support base for Chechen rebels, the Chinese have troubles in their bordering region dominated by Muslims, and at the last riot that took place in that region, a Chinese defense personnel exclusively claimed that there is enough proof to prove that the separatists in Chinese bordering regions are getting support from Pakistan based terror groups.