India, Iran cradles of great civilizations: Iranian envoy

[Abhishek_]

The rules for use of the number zero were written down by Brahmagupta who was part of Ancient Pakistan.

as per english grammar, ancient and pakistan don't belong in the same sentence.

btw I dont understand why people are bickering over some expected diplomatic talk between India/Iran.

 

[justanobserver]

Identity crisis is the term you are looking for

The line of argument generally is that "ancient pakistan" was Indus based, and not Ganga based "Bharati" civ.

But the Gupta Empire (where Aryabhatta devised the concept of zero) is was based in the Gangetic heartland

 

[roadrunner]

So anyone whose birthplace is not known becomes a Pakistani? And didn't you just say he wasn't responsible for the rules of zero?

he might have been. I didnt say Arybhatta was born in the region of Pakistan. It's not known where he's from.

 

[Arian]

It's contested. If he was born in Baghdad, he was most likely an Arab, or an ancestor of some Arabs. He might have been shia.

He was born in a Persian[1][2][3] family, and his birthplace is given as Chorasmia by Ibn al-Nadim.

Few details of al-Khwārizmī's life are known with certainty. His name may indicate that he came from Khwarezm (Khiva), then in Greater Khorasan, which occupied the eastern part of the Greater Iran, now Xorazm Province in Uzbekistan. Abu Rayhan Biruni calls the people of Khwarizm "a branch of the Persian tree".[9]

Al-Tabari gave his name as Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwārizmī al-Majousi al-Katarbali (Arabic: محمد بن موسى الخوارزميّ المجوسـيّ القطربّـلي&#1617. The epithet al-Qutrubbulli could indicate he might instead have come from Qutrubbul (Qatrabbul),[10] a viticulture district near Baghdad. However, Rashed[11] suggests:

There is no need to be an expert on the period or a philologist to see that al-Tabari's second citation should read “Muhammad ibn Mūsa al-Khwārizmī and al-Majūsi al-Qutrubbulli,” and that there are two people (al-Khwārizmī and al-Majūsi al-Qutrubbulli) between whom the letter wa [Arabic ‘و’ for the article ‘and’] has been omitted in an early copy. This would not be worth mentioning if a series of errors concerning the personality of al-Khwārizmī, occasionally even the origins of his knowledge, had not been made. Recently, G. J. Toomer ... with naive confidence constructed an entire fantasy on the error which cannot be denied the merit of amusing the reader.

Regarding al-Khwārizmī's religion, Toomer writes:

Another epithet given to him by al-Ṭabarī, "al-Majūsī," would seem to indicate that he was an adherent of the old Zoroastrian religion. This would still have been possible at that time for a man of Iranian origin, but the pious preface to al-Khwārizmī's Algebra shows that he was an orthodox Muslim, so al-Ṭabarī's epithet could mean no more than that his forebears, and perhaps he in his youth, had been Zoroastrians.[1]

Ibn al-Nadīm's Kitāb al-Fihrist includes a short biography on al-Khwārizmī, together with a list of the books he wrote. Al-Khwārizmī accomplished most of his work in the period between 813 and 833. After the Islamic conquest of Persia, Baghdad became the centre of scientific studies and trade, and many merchants and scientists from as far as China and India traveled to this city, as did Al-Khwārizmī. He worked in Baghdad as a scholar at the House of Wisdom established by Caliph al-Maʾmūn, where he studied the sciences and mathematics, which included the translation of Greek and Sanskrit scientific manuscripts.

D. M. Dunlop suggests that it may have been possible that Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī was in fact the same person as Muḥammad ibn Mūsā ibn Shākir, the eldest of the three Banū Mūsā.[12]

Even the name Majusi in his surname indicates that he is not Arab. It's pretty obvious. He was a Persian scientist with Persian origin and probably of Zoroastrian religion (as the name Majusi in his surname suggests) who was born in Khwarizm which was a city in the Greater Khorasan.

 

[roadrunner]

The line of argument generally is that "ancient pakistan" was Indus based, and not Ganga based "Bharati" civ.

But the Gupta Empire (where Aryabhatta devised the concept of zero) is was based in the Gangetic heartland

a) Arybhatta didnt invent the number zero or lay down the rules

b) Whoever was born in the Gupta Empire at the time of the map was a citizen of the Gupta Empire. They weren't Indians or Pakistanis. However, if they were born in the geography of Pakistan, they were Ancient Pakistanis as that is the history of that region.

 

[roadrunner]

Even the name Majusi in his surname indicates that he is not Arab. It's pretty obvious. He was a Persian scientist with Persian origin and probably of Zoroastrian religion (as the name Majusi in his surname suggests) who was born in Khwarizm which was a city in the Greater Khorasan.

Everyone in Greater Persia was not Persian. Greater Persia consisted of Uzbekistan, the people of Uzbekistan aren't Persian.

 

[arcane]

leave him brothers, i already said u can't beat a troll, lets discuss iran now.......
what the position on india-pakistan-iran pipeline????

 

[roadrunner]

arcane, why don't you leave this thread? You havent contributed anything of value.

 

[Arian]

Everyone in Greater Persia was not Persian. Greater Persia consisted of Uzbekistan, the people of Uzbekistan aren't Persian.

Uzbek people have Persian roots too, although these days they have become more Turkic than Persian, but at ancient times they were Persian people. I'd rather go that Uzbekistan has a fairly large Persian population, even the Persian language is spoken there and Nowrooz is celebrated in there.

The first people known to inhabit Central Asia were Iranian nomads who arrived from the northern grasslands of what is now Uzbekistan sometime in the first millennium BC. These nomads, who spoke Iranian dialects, settled in Central Asia and began to build an extensive irrigation system along the rivers of the region. At this time, cities such as Bukhoro (Bukhara) and Samarqand (Samarkand) began to appear as centers of government and culture. By the 5th century BC, the Bactrian, Soghdian, and Tokharian states dominated the region.

Even the structure of the name Uzbekistan is Persian, the ethnic name + stan. stan is a suffix in Persian that comes from the word ostan (province).

 

[arcane]

atleast i am better than someone trying to prove that zero was invented outside india's boundaries.....
any news about the pipeline????/

 

[Abhishek_]

self-delete

 

[roadrunner]

Uzbek people have Persian roots too, although these days they have become more Turkic than Persian, but at ancient times they were Persian people. I'd rather go that Uzbekistan has a fairly large Persian population, even the Persian language is spoken there and Nowrooz is celebrated in there.

Uzbeks are Uzbeks. Most think they're Turkic, not Persian.

Even the structure of the name Uzbekistan is Persian, the ethnic name + stan. stan is a suffix in Persian that comes from the word ostan (province).

So what? It's just a name, it doesn't mean the people have roots from the same place.

It is clear al-khwarizm was an orthodox Muslim, but also he was given the title al Mujusi. He was given other titles that would suggest other areas. It's not clear what his ethnicity was.

 

[justanobserver]

a) Arybhatta didnt invent the number zero or lay down the rules

b) Whoever was born in the Gupta Empire at the time of the map was a citizen of the Gupta Empire. They weren't Indians or Pakistanis. However, if they were born in the geography of Pakistan, they were Ancient Pakistanis as that is the history of that region.

I'm here just for the lulz. Do go on...

 

[roadrunner]

Al-Khwarizmi biography

About his titles, explained above.

 

[Arian]

Uzbeks are Uzbeks. Most think they're Turkic, not Persian.

read my post attentively please. I already told you that these days they are more Turkic than Persian, so you said nothing new to me, just you repeated me.

Once part of the Persian Samanid and later Timurid empires, the region was conquered in the early 16th century by Uzbek nomads, who spoke an Eastern Turkic language. Most of Uzbekistan’s population today belong to the Uzbek ethnic group and speak the Uzbek language, one of the family of Turkic languages.

The Uzbeks weren't Turkic before the 16th century, now count down the centuries by your fingers and conclude what people lived in Greater Khorasan at that time. Even today the region is highly influenced by the Persian culture, that doesn't mean they are not Turkic but it shows that they are related to Persia historically.
go here and you'll see that Persian is still spoken in the region: Persian language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You lack the minimum knowledge of history required to talk about this as your posts suggest.

So what? It's just a name, it doesn't mean the people have roots from the same place.

Really? That should be chosen as the joke of the year. Most of the speculations and theories of historians are motivated by such similarities, then you say it says nothing?

It is clear al-khwarizm was an orthodox Muslim, but also he was given the title al Mujusi. He was given other titles that would suggest other areas. It's not clear what his ethnicity was.

It's not clear, It is clear he was a Persian scientist. In fact it's way clearer that he was Persian than he was a Muslim.