India, Iran cradles of great civilizations: Iranian envoy

[r3alist]

Your scriptures mean no more than homers illiad; something that's historically curious but not exactly water tight.

I am finding it funny how YOUR standard of proof is coming closer to mythology according to your own arguments, so forgive me if I dont put weight on your mythology :ROFL:

 

[oFFbEAT]

Your scriptures mean no more than homers illiad; something that's historically curious but not exactly water tight.

I am finding it funny how YOUR standard of proof is coming closer to mythology according to your own arguments, so forgive me if I dont put weight on your mythology :ROFL:

The presence of historical monuments, status, cave drawings, excavated sites, scriptures along with notable Historian's(not only Indian) research works........ain't any proof to you.

Please tell me what kind of proof you want....

 

[r3alist]

The presence of historical monuments, status, cave drawings, excavated sites, scriptures along with notable Historian's(not only Indian) research works........ain't any proof to you.

Please tell me what kind of proof you want....

I know they exist, but I want you to tell me what the heck it means in your context?

This is the crux of your argument so make it good.....

 

[oFFbEAT]

I know they exist, but I want you to tell me what the heck it means in your context?

This is the crux of your argument so make it good.....

OMG.....I have to explain it again........

why don't you read the posts carefuly.....specially the Highlighted parts.(this is the purpose of using bold and colourful fonts--so that you read them carefully and try to understand the logic behind)

You first said that there is no such thing called "Ancient Indian Civilization".....BUT I proved that Ancient Indian Civilization existed and can be well defined.....I even gave the boundaries of Ancient India based on historical structures and evidences...........read the below post........

.................Generally speaking, Ancient Indian Civilization(Indus Valley Civilization and the civilization along the river Ganges) spread from modern day Afghanistan in the west(the existance of Bamiyan Buddha status-destroyed by the Talibans and HinduKush mountains proove it) to modern day Burma(Myanmar-Chola dynasty stretched from South India to modern day Myanmar) in the east.......

Then, you said that Hindus and Indians cannot be related..........."You are easily throwing the word Indian and Hindu about it's basically a nonsense." post #268
Which I again busted by giving examples about how the terms Hindus and Indians could be used interchangeably......read the post below........

.........................First of all, remember, all the founders of the Dharmic religions(Buddhism,Sikhism, Jainism) were born Hindus i.e they all originated from this ONE Vedic Religion(Hinduism)....which again implies that there was ONLY ONE religion in Ancient India.
...............................................................................
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Now, the fact that, India has always been Invaded(so other religions came into India) BUT Indians(Hindu Kings) never Invaded other countries(so Hinduism, never got a chance to spread outside the subcontinent at that time) implies that this religion can be attributed to a very specific set/group of people living ONLY in the subcontinent.

So, the bottomline is.....that the ONLY religion existed in Ancient India was Hinduism, It is a very well-defined religion and it can be attributed to a very specific group of people living ONLY in the subcontinent.
Therefore, India(ancient/modern) and Hinduism cannot be separated.
Ancient Indians=Hindus and viceversa.
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Now tell me precisely, which portion of my post do you fing ILLOGICAL.....and also kindly give historical proofs(like I have given) in suport of your views.

 

[r3alist]

I am embarassed for you that you believe this tripe.

I can't possibly debunk all if that, but let me start with a clear falsehood, you have not provided me with one iota of historical proofs, provide me your sources, I will look at them and determine the basis of your points based on them, not colourful responses. so please do this.

 

[Kadamba]

You gave me a map - that does not mean anything to me. The rest is your mythology, unless you have something more serious to say other than stories?

I am not immovable on this,just sceptical.

Wrong. You cant be skeptical when you are already in denial mode.

This is all neither here nor there.

Are you referring to your identity ?

Your scriptures mean no more than homers illiad; something that's historically curious but not exactly water tight.

You mean, similar to what your holy books say ?

I am finding it funny how YOUR standard of proof is coming closer to mythology according to your own arguments, so forgive me if I dont put weight on your mythology :ROFL:

OMG. Now we are doomed. Our identity is lost since you rejected to give your certificate of acknowledgement.

I can't possibly debunk all if that, but let me start with a clear falsehood, you have not provided me with one iota of historical proofs, provide me your sources, I will look at them and determine the basis of your points based on them, not colourful responses. so please do this.

It is you who need to bring the valid proofs, to debunk the established facts about Indian and Iranian Civilizations. If you cant, spare this thread named "India, Iran cradles of great civilizations: Iranian envoy" , from your rants. Nobody is here to spoon feed you.

 

[SIR DONTKILL]

no,thats where u r wrong.

---------- Post added at 11:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 AM ----------

pakistan is in a bit of trouble.

---------- Post added at 11:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 AM ----------

no,thats where u r

 

[notsuperstitious]

I think the gentleman is confused and is stuck to the word ''India''. What this person is unable to explain is that I can visit all of the subcontinent's history and relics and can identify with it, identify the artifacts, the stories around them and relate them to the ones found in my village and home and the ones i heard as a child. Thats definitive, complete, real, verifiable cultural heritage.

Thats good enough for me and everybody else who matters. He can call it ancient pakistan or ancient arabia or ancient Gondor, who gives a rats a$$?

 

[StandForInsaf]

I think the gentleman is confused and is stuck to the word ''India''. What this person is unable to explain is that I can visit all of the subcontinent's history and relics and can identify with it, identify the artifacts, the stories around them and relate them to the ones found in my village and home.

Thats good enough for me and everybody else who matters. He can call it ancient pakistan or ancient arabia or ancient Gondor, who gives a rats a$$?

IVC belongs to ancient Pakistan you ppl find your roots/links in your own country .

 

[notsuperstitious]

IVC belongs to ancient Pakistan you ppl find your roots/links in your own country .

How pagan.

First find ancient Pakistan, second rename PNS Tippu Sultan to PNS Ranjith Singh, then once you start feeling a bit rational about your identity crisis, then try to contruct a meaningful sentence instead of passing fatwas

 

[StandForInsaf]

How pagan.

First find ancient Pakistan, second rename PNS Tippu Sultan to PNS Ranjith Singh, then once you start feeling a bit rational about your identity crisis, then try to contruct a meaningful sentence instead of passing fatwas

words are making no sense why should we do that any reason ?
we are the living IVC and you are looking for dead ones.... lolz ironic...

 

[Loyus]

A nation was divided based on the Two nation Thoey and an idelaogy

Do you also want to divide history on the basis of this idealogy

In that case you have ask whether Indus valley people accepted Two nation theory, Gandhara, Kushanas etc etc confoemd to Two nation theory
If not then who are you to claim rights on what is your history and what is our history ?

We have no qualms if you claim Tipu/ Akbar or even Prithiraj as part of your history..Please do that
or if you want to be selective about then make it somethign like Islamic hostry only and glorify the aspects that means Two nation theory..

Once more..our history got divided after 1947.. Till then we had same histiry

To divide Thousands of years of histiry based on a comparitivey recent idealogy is plain nonsense

Your land and my land does not matter.. It was called India/Indika/Hind/Hindustan and you were a part of it

That land, after independence, got truncated but we do not have any new idealogy..
The culture and histury is a continuous development from that 1000 years genesis...

No aberation of idealogy

 

[r3alist]

I asked a really easy question, "show me the sources of your beliefs" - you have none.

Instead you want me to believe same colourful rants and not proper sourced evidence, so I get accused of being illogical = LOL

you people have created your ideology based on fluffy myths and desperate attempt at logic to create an ancient identity, it doesn't hold to scrutiny, and saddest thing is you guys are proving it!!!

 

[r3alist]

To divide Thousands of years of histiry based on a comparitivey recent idealogy is plain nonsense

I have no shared history with people in south India, I would doubt that, serious question but does anyone in Pakistan have this with frequency?

Your land and my land does not matter.. It was called India/Indika/Hind/Hindustan and you were a part of it

Was any ancient Indian person consciously part of something called India/Hindustan, as far as I know that's a NO.

Is it comparable to the Romans who had a solid idea of what it meant to be a citizen of Rome? I don't think so.


So when you say we were all Indian you are telling the dead what they were!!!

the same space was inhabited, that's all, and you call this space India, you can also call it the sub continent or south Asia!!

 

[Loyus]

I have no shared history with people in south India, I would doubt that, serious question but does anyone in Pakistan have this with frequency?

You have shared history with people of North India/East India..

Was any ancient Indian person consciously part of something called India/Hindustan, as far as I know that's a NO.

The concept of Bharata/Bharatvarsha is not a new one. It is defined in scriptures, religious texts..
Besides Indika/Indians were called by travellers like Megastehsens or Arabic, Iranian , Chinese travellers..
You have to understand one thing.. It is more cultural than geographical. And it is reflected in the food, language, literature, dances, religious influences...
That is why the IVC which also included sites like Lothal or Ropar goes beyond the present defintion of nationhood

So when you say we were all Indian you are telling the dead what they were!!!

the same space was inhabited, that's all, and you call this space India, you can also call it the sub continent or south Asia!!

I am not telling the dead who they were.. Everyone used to call that.. That is why there was a Quit India movement.. Because the land was called India

Yes and the subcontinent is defined by that shared history..
You might have a problem with the name India but I don;t think you should have a problem with a shared history..

And that history whether you liked or not was called India/Indika/Hind etc etc..
Not by me.. but by people who travelled and wrote about the place