India inducts new strike-capable Heron Mark 2 drones at forward airbase in northern sector

[DESERT FIGHTER]

India's R&D defence ecosystem is more mature than ours, the truth is that in a decade or two it will be mature like Turkey's or better and we will still be complaining about egotistical military men, office politics, and no meritocracy causing projects to be cancelled prematurely

This is a kamikazi from a private firm

Look at cavalier arms with their MRCVs and rifles

Look at Shahpar III

Look out at the new 155mm Artillery barrels produced by HIT.
Look at the navy with it's new midget submarine design.

 

[Puffin]

Bad project management, time and cost delays - DRDO et all
Keep changing goal posts and put higher requirements, scramble for foreign maal - It took a Parrikar to get Tejas in, and world over no platform got inducted fully developed is just one example.

How can we expect to have a aerospace system in place, with above attitude.

Other countries start by several companies specialising in each different discipline .Each particular area produces one or more winning specialisation after fierce competition. Another company then integrates these specialisation products to produce a complete product like an aircraft or a tank,
This way every area is constantly advancing .
The idea that India keeps changing its requirements is laughable because defence requirements ARE CONSTANTLY changing and if YOU FAIL to produce the specified product ON TIME AND OF REQUIRED QUALITY then whatever you produce will be redundant the day it emerges 20 years after due date.
You SHOULD NOT have HAL running 50 different projects
You should not have HAL having anything to do with drones.
You should not have HAL having anything to do with engines
You should not have HAL having anything to do with landing gear
You should not have HAL having anything to do with making the canopy
You should not have HAL having anything to do designing IRST or refueling probes or Braking mechanism.

 

[VkdIndian]

With big private players coming in, this is likely to change. These companies have decent resources to create systems with good capabilities. Only issue is, availability of orders, if a company puts in money and time into any program. There has to be surety of decent size orders, which is akin to catch 22 situation.

If we look across, there is a sudden spurt of weapon systems coming out of Paksiatn. How did they design, certify and produce so many new systems without firm orders? And so soon?

It requires hell of a lot of resources to do that? Just producing a basic air to air missiles takes years of efforts, while BVR is a different ball game all together. Astra program and many others across the world are an example of that. Same is the case with many other wepoans systems listed in the post by @DESERT FIGHTER above. The list looks impressive. How did it materialise so fast?

 

[Hephaestus]

Shameful that a country of 1.4 billiion people has to buy drones off a country of 10 million people (Israelis). Shows how far the Indians have fallen.

True!

 

[indushek]

Other countries start by several companies specialising in each different discipline .Each particular area produces one or more winning specialisation after fierce competition. Another company then integrates these specialisation products to produce a complete product like an aircraft or a tank,
This way every area is constantly advancing .
The idea that India keeps changing its requirements is laughable because defence requirements ARE CONSTANTLY changing and if YOU FAIL to produce the specified product ON TIME AND OF REQUIRED QUALITY then whatever you produce will be redundant the day it emerges 20 years after due date.
You SHOULD NOT have HAL running 50 different projects
You should not have HAL having anything to do with drones.
You should not have HAL having anything to do with engines
You should not have HAL having anything to do with landing gear
You should not have HAL having anything to do with making the canopy
You should not have HAL having anything to do designing IRST or refueling probes or Braking mechanism.

Yeah but realizing that a proper MIC has to be present, where the entire chain is decentralized before a platform materializes.. all this realization has come in very late hasn't it?

I blame the planners ultimately, even more so than the armed forces or the defense PSU's. These two are in a way protecting their turfs. Its the babus who are idiots

 

[khansaheeb]

True!

Have you forgotten you are an Indian and you are not here to subjugate to our views? Or is it because of your low caste that you bow ? Break the chains of caste and be free to voice your opinion.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

With big private players coming in, this is likely to change. These companies have decent resources to create systems with good capabilities. Only issue is, availability of orders, if a company puts in money and time into any program. There has to be surety of decent size orders, which is akin to catch 22 situation.

If we look across, there is a sudden spurt of weapon systems coming out of Paksiatn. How did they design, certify and produce so many new systems without firm orders? And so soon?

It requires hell of a lot of resources to do that? Just producing a basic air to air missiles takes years of efforts, while BVR is a different ball game all together. Astra program and many others across the world are an example of that. Same is the case with many other wepoans systems listed in the post by @DESERT FIGHTER above. The list looks impressive. How did it materialise so fast?

Shahpar II
Fatah I
FAAZ BVR
Guided artillery shells
loitering munitions
Etc etc are all in services and being marketed for export, along with the new variants under development.

 

[NooriNuth]

What happened to Rustom drones India was making?

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

If we look across, there is a sudden spurt of weapon systems coming out of Paksiatn. How did they design, certify and produce so many new systems without firm orders? And so soon?

It requires hell of a lot of resources to do that? Just producing a basic air to air missiles takes years of efforts, while BVR is a different ball game all together. Astra program and many others across the world are an example of that. Same is the case with many other wepoans systems listed in the post by @DESERT FIGHTER above. The list looks impressive. How did it materialise so fast?

Missiles and UAVs are only things we are good at.
We suck in everything else.
For radars
Lot of reasearch was done for radars after 2010
Some of that was posted in pdf also

Radar Related developments in Pakistan

We are still,behind in radar tech,however with more funding and more private sector partnership,we can have the desired results. Farhan. Is there any data available regarding DESTO's radar related developments?

pdf.defence.pk

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

With big private players coming in, this is likely to change. These companies have decent resources to create systems with good capabilities. Only issue is, availability of orders, if a company puts in money and time into any program. There has to be surety of decent size orders, which is akin to catch 22 situation.

If we look across, there is a sudden spurt of weapon systems coming out of Paksiatn. How did they design, certify and produce so many new systems without firm orders? And so soon?

It requires hell of a lot of resources to do that? Just producing a basic air to air missiles takes years of efforts, while BVR is a different ball game all together. Astra program and many others across the world are an example of that. Same is the case with many other wepoans systems listed in the post by @DESERT FIGHTER above. The list looks impressive. How did it materialise so fast?

tbh all of the major Pakistani programs are under SOEs, so they're getting subsidized for their work (be it minimal or extensive). The probable reason why the armed forces are putting money into these projects is because they want to source these systems in-house, i.e., a strategic imperative. In contrast, Pakistan's private sector couldn't do any of this work (due to lack of capacity in Pakistan and for the reasons you explained).

 

[nahtanbob]

What happened to Rustom drones India was making?

good question

 

[NAVDEEP DHALIWAL]

Rustom has completed its trials now they are trying for armed version.

I wish Rustom Drone can be given to the police in large numbers, will solve a lot of crime problems. Cause we know our police suck at providing proof in courts, giving video proof of bikers snatching chains/mobiles and than having a Peg would hugely help in court cases. Lol

 

[Hephaestus]

Have you forgotten you are an Indian and you are not here to subjugate to our views? Or is it because of your low caste that you bow ? Break the chains of caste and be free to voice your opinion.

Khansaheeb kuch zyaada nhain ho gaya

 

[Puffin]

With big private players coming in, this is likely to change. These companies have decent resources to create systems with good capabilities. Only issue is, availability of orders, if a company puts in money and time into any program. There has to be surety of decent size orders, which is akin to catch 22 situation.

There is some truth that big private players are moving in but only some. The reality is that the big players are having to wrestle with the behemoth that is Indian bureaucracy, and its inability to make timely and clear decisions. The reluctance to release funds at critical junctures and to use that release to bargain at the 11th hour. The fact is that the whole bureaucracy is totally uneducated in matters of defence weaponry.

I blame the planners ultimately, even more so than the armed forces or the defense PSU's. These two are in a way protecting their turfs. Its the babus who are idiots

Absolutely agree.

 

[nahtanbob]

Certainly proved Israeli technology on 28th Feb 2019 . Please buy more Israeli technology.

Israeli drones were not used on 28th Feb 2019

In any case I do not think Israelis have transferred their latest and greatest to India

The whole thing is somewhat moot since India is able to get advanced drones from American companies

Last but not the least drones are great for reconnaissance and surveillance. The utility in combat is still limited