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India in talks to open ports, bases to US military

India will get US protection. So this benefits India. Once US take care of Indian security, India can focus on economic development. And US save Indian face by make this a joint agreement. India should appreciate this gesture. As I said years back, US will set up a Neva's base in port Blair. This should be the first US base in India. With more to come. Count on it.

US Protection ? That's the last thing any sensible non European Nation would look for.
Remember South Korea has something similar? North Korea simply sunk a million dollars of modern South Korean Navy ship and all that SK could do was increase the number of propaganda speakers on the border.

India will get US protection. So this benefits India. Once US take care of Indian security, India can focus on economic development. And US save Indian face by make this a joint agreement. India should appreciate this gesture. As I said years back, US will set up a Neva's base in port Blair. This should be the first US base in India. With more to come. Count on it.

I think that Ukraine too had a gurantee of protection ? What happened ?
I think no sane Indian would like a deal where its like signing our own death wish.
 
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One way to prevent US troop harassing of Indian women is to provide entertainment to US troops. Indians should be able to do that.


You knows a lots about Americans .It seems that is your job in US .An entertainment for Americans :sarcastic:
 
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OK. Two years back, during all the anti Iran shouting in the US and the anti US shouting in Iran I had said, when the US starts exiting Afghanistan, things between Iran and the US will improve. This we have started seeing.

Indulge me a little, while a build a case as to why we may be progressing towards the agreements.

Now, I am going to make another statement.

The containment of China has begun and the first pawn to be attacked will be Pakistan. Why do I say this? The Chinese economy is dependent on oil. Soon it is expected to consume approximately 25% of overall petroleum and other liquids consumption. It is a net importer of these. China is a huge producer of coal. But, with the signing of accords it will need to cut and move to more ecologically efficient means of power.

Today almost 50% of China's oil requirement comes from the Middle East and another 24% from Africa. Which means, you need to ship it through the Indian Ocean. This is the domain of the USN and the IN. To protect this, the CPEC is planned. With Gwadar playing a major role. While Pakistanis on this forum may thank China, for providing the infrastructure, I think its the Chinese who need to thank Pakistan for this port. This port and the CPEC is going to be main artery of the Chinese economy.

Now, come to the point of the port. The person who controls this port, is a thorn to the people who want to control or force China. If the person sides with the Americans, they lose out on China. If they side with China, there will be repercussions. My belief is that Pakistan will side with China. And this poses a problem. To anybody, who wants to ensure China no longer poses a threat.

The objective then is to either ensure the CPEC never succeeds. Or if it is succeeding, ensure control over the port is with a government which supports the US and its allies. Now, if Pakistan supports China, the following are possibilities.

a. Military Coup.
b. Economic sanctions
c. Subversive engagement
d. Military intervention

Point a, seems highly unlikely. Because, even if executed after creating a condition where the military has to intervene, the Pak Army will follow the same policy vis-a-vis the CPEC. This provides the Pak people with much needed development and leverage on the Chinese.

Point b. Not going to work if the CPEC becomes a reality. Because, then China cannot afford Pakistan to fail. China will back Pakistan economically through trade, which the US cannot control. And past history has proven Pakistan can withstand sanctions.

Then the two options become subversive engagement and military intervention.

If point c, is followed, there will be increasing domestic unrest spread via a campaign internally to ensure CPEC does not succeed. This will include trouble in Balochistan and some other province.

If point d, is followed, there will be a situation created where the Pak forces are left with no option but to attack or make a move. This will be against US interests. Or some case will be prepared for an attack on Pakistan through Afghanistan. This war will pull in India, Afghanistan and US on one side. With Iran staying neutral. Why will Iran stay neutral? Because if Gwadar fails, the other route is Chabhar. The Indian side may provide bases and tactical support to US and Afghan forces. The Russians will ike this because it makes the Chinese dependent on them.

My money is that point c will lead to d. The explosion on ties between India and the US, the increased military engagement and the inroads in Afghanistan is going to lead an alliance against a country. That country is not going to be China. This engagement is about containing China, but not about targeting it. That target is Pakistan.

Just my thoughts on a Saturday evening with no liquor. :D

@MastanKhan @araz @Capt.Popeye @Abingdonboy


If I may add a few points to the holistic assessment of the ground realities as they do exist.Russia, by virtue of western sanctions is beholden to China who will definitely squueze the Russians .Additionally, Russia is a junior partner here plus the fact that the Russians are apprehensive of Chinese designs in their far eastern regions .A bit of history should bear re telling here.The far eastern Siberia , which is now part of Russia became so mostly during "the Chinese century of humiliation" thru a policy of creeping acquisition by the Czardom of Russia & the communists following the Czardoms abolition.China hasn't forgotten this.Russia knows this as well.Given the sparse Russian population there plus the steady arrival of Chinese guest workers which sparked xenophobia among Russian nationalists & politicians , the internal dynamics of the Chinese - Russian relation will always be fraught with tension, whatever the public narrative of such engagement will be.

In contrast , India doesn't have any animus with the Russians .The cooling down of relations between India & Russia is solely on account of the fact that apart from military ties , our economic ties are non existent.There's nothing to bind us together apart from military ties & general goodwill & bonhomie.This changed a bit during PM Modi's recent visit to Russia with a high profile business delegation.The only way we can ensure Russia's neutrality in the emerging Pak - China axis against India is to ensure these economic ties & military ties are nourished .Otherwise, Russia will end up , against its will in the Pak - China camp , an unwilling participant helpless against China's economic stranglehold on them.
I shall add to the above post lunch
 
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I think this is not gonna happen in first place as opposition parties will not be agree on this and most important the people of India will not be agree on this. Second its depand on what India is getting benefits through this deal.
 
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SOURCE: wsws.org

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According to Indian media reports, the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) government has begun discussions with the US on a military Logistics Support Agreement (LSA). If finalized, the LSA would allow the US military to routinely use Indian ports and army and air force bases for refuelling and otherwise staging and provisioning its deployments.

Under the LSA, the US would ostensibly guarantee similar rights to the Indian military. This, however, would be largely a dead letter, for while the US is an Asian and global military power, the reach of the Indian military is restricted to the subcontinent and parts of the Indian Ocean.

Opening discussions on the LSA marks a major shift of India towards a formal military alliance with US imperialism. Already India is deeply integrated into the US “pivot” to Asia—Washington’s drive to economically and diplomatically isolate China and militarily encircle it. Now New Delhi is preparing to allow US planes and ships to use Indian facilities, bringing them in still closer range of China, India’s northern neighbour.

The US has been pressing India to sign on to the LSA since the George W. Bush administration signed a Strategic Partnership Agreement with the Congress Party-led United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government in 2006. While the UPA held talks with the US on the LSA, it ultimately balked at signing on, because of concerns that it would imperil India’s “strategic autonomy” and rile China.

Because the throwing open of Indian facilities to the US military is a highly sensitive and contentious issue, the BJP government has made no formal announcement that it is discussing with Washington ratifying the LSA. However, the Indian government has not denied the media reports.

Quoting from an unnamed “senior (Indian) defence official involved” in the negotiations, the Chennai-basedHindureported on December 26 that the LSA was discussed during Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar’s December 7-10 visit to the US.

In a statement that underscores the huge import of India agreeing to open its military facilities to the US, theHinduwent on to say that the official saw no serious obstacle to New Delhi soon reaching agreement with the US on the LSA. “There is only one concern,” he then declared. “What happens in the case of war?”

The official added that India is seeking “clarifications” as to how the LSA would be applied in the event that India did not support a US military action. Saying perhaps more than he intended to about the aggressive character of US imperialism, the unnamed senior official said New Delhi did not want to be legally obliged to “extend support for war with friendly countries.”

He suggested that a “compromise” could be found through the inclusion of language stipulating that in the event of war India could determine on a case-by-case basis whether the LTA’s terms would remain unchanged, suspended or modified.

The inclusion of such language would be in keeping with India’s policy of integrating itself ever-more fully into the US’s strategic offensive against China while maintaining the pretence of Indian “strategic autonomy.”

It would help counter domestic opposition to an enhanced military-security partnership with the US. Among India’s workers and toilers there is widespread hostility to US imperialism, which they rightly identify with war and oppression. Sections of India’s political and military establishment are for their own reasons opposed to aligning more closely with Washington, both because of its impact on relations with China and because the US has a long history of bullying and threatening India.

The US, for its part, is anxious to finalize the LSA, which it views as an important piece in its long-term strategy of drawing the Indian military into ever closer ties with the Pentagon, including making it dependent on US weapons and weapon systems.

In an interview with theIndian Express, a Pentagon official indicated that Washington is pleased with the manner in which the negotiations are proceeding. TheExpressreport paraphrased the official as saying, “Parrikar has shown an open mind on signing the LSA,” and that the US is “hopeful” two related agreements that the US views as “foundational” to developing a full military partnership with India “will follow.”

The two other “foundational agreements” are the Communications Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) and the Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-Spatial Cooperation (BECA). These agreements, which are a standard part of the US’ military alliances, are meant to facilitate and promote inter-military “communications interoperability” and “security.”

According to the same defence official who spoke to theHindu, they would involve “giving the US access to India’s encrypted systems,” a condition that has caused India’s armed forces to voice “reservations.”

A.K. Antony, the UPA government’s defence minister from 2006 to 2014, ultimately came to oppose the CISMOA and BECA, as well as the LSA, because, reports theIndian Express, he “believed that signing the agreements would grant the US military unencumbered access to Indian military installations and compromise sensitive data.”

Separately, the US is pushing, under the Indo-US Defence Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI), for India to enter into co-production and co-development projects with the Pentagon and US arms manufacturers.

However, US officials have told their Indian counterparts that if India has not agreed to the terms of the CISMOA and BECA it will “at a certain point” prove an obstacle to expanding the co-manufacture and development of high technology weapons systems.

Under the previous UPA government, India became a “global strategic partner” of the US, the Indian military became the Pentagon’s most frequent partner in joint exercises, and the US displaced Russia as India’s largest weapons supplier.

The BJP, during its 20 months in office, has tilted India still more pronouncedly toward Washington, including forging closer military-security ties with the US’ most important Indo-Pacific allies, Japan and Australia.

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi made Obama the first US president to be the guest of honour at India’s annual Republic Day celebrations. At the conclusion of Obama’s January 2015 visit to Delhi, he and Modi issued a “US-India Joint Strategic Vision for the Asia-Pacific and Indian Ocean,” which, to Washington’s delight, included US-drafted language concerning the conflict between the US and its allies and China in the South China Sea.

In September, Indian External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj and her US counterpart John Kerry announced that the US and Indian militaries will cooperate in “peacekeeping capacity building” with “a focus on training” troops from African countries for UN peacekeeping missions. While in the past there has been ad hoc cooperation between the Indian and US militaries in providing disaster relief, this agreement represents the first time they will be collaborating in an overseas military operation, working together to fashion the military forces to be used in policing and imposing by force of arms imperialist-sponsored UN peacekeeping missions.

Especially important has been the Modi government’s embrace of trilateral Indo-US-Japanese military-security cooperation, something the previous UPA government drew back from after China voiced strong opposition.

Last September, Swaraj met with Kerry and Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida in the inaugural meeting of the US-Japan-India Trilateral Ministerial Dialogue. Soon after it was revealed that the annual bilateral Indo-US “Malabar” naval exercise would henceforth have a third permanent member, Japan.

Parrikar’s visit was the first by an Indian defence minister to the US since 2008. During the same period, there were six visits to India by the US defence secretary, an indication of the Pentagon’s push to integrate India into its provocations and war planning against China.

Symbolizing the deepening military-security ties between the two countries, Parrikar started his US tour by visiting the US Pacific Command (PACOM) in Hawaii. Led by US Defence Secretary Ashton Carter, he toured the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower, one of the US’ nuclear-powered aircraft carriers, becoming the first Indian defence minister to ever tour a US aircraft carrier.

The Stalinist Communist Party of India (Marxist), or CPM, has issued a statement expressing concerns over the BJP’s negotiations with the US over the LSA and the two related military cooperation agreements. A party that is thoroughly integrated into the Indian bourgeoisie, the CPM propped up the Congress-led UPA government for four years, including as it forged India’s strategic partnership with US imperialism.

The CPM opposes the LSA, from the standpoint of the Indian ruling elite’s national interests, not as part of the struggle to develop a working class-led revolutionary opposition to imperialism and imperialist war. A recent editorial in the CPM organPeople’s Democracyurged the BJP government to “not sign these agreements which will limit India’s sovereignty, impair its strategic autonomy and make India a subordinate military ally of the United States.”

In line with this, the CPM promotes the reactionary illusion that the Indian bourgeoisie, the UN and a “multi-polar world” can serve as a progressive counterweight to US imperialism.

LOLZ the Pentagon and the US experts are excited and sees India tiltiling toward the LSA, CISMOA, and BECA in another word a defense security pact and India joining NATO. But what I see India is not going to sign either of any these, rather a deal can be made between India, and US away from all these agreement in which India could provide some sort of logistic support to the US, and in return India could get some tech. without making any agreement like Long range tactical UAV, and ABM, EMALs sort of DTTI without signing above agreements.

To keep the discussion short

1.LSA (Logistics Support Agreement)
2.CISMOA (Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum Agreement)
3.BECA (Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement)

Need of the present hours, better exchange and cooperation is needed no doubt and India could get the benifits of the world wide US assets like Satellite live data, needed for the true ABM shield, but India had a long policy of non alignment policy, which don't think the future govt. will want to destroy, and does it guarantee its availability in every condition, certainly NO, if India got the confortation with the US allies or another NATO nation.

1. LSA -- Don't see coming nor from this govt. or from another govt. because the opposition party will oppose such move in India, nor India needs it and will seriously effects the Indian neutral stand, and russian, chinese relationship.

2. CISMOA and BECA -- This was proposed by the Pantagon to India in 2006, which help in better interoperability, and the use of the US GPS for the guided weapons, but here is another twist which shows Indian intention, the P-8i, IN rejecting USN Aegis over Desi Battle management, India having its own navigational satellite program, Indigenous ABM program and not buying PAC-3 even during the greatest pressure of the ABM shield quickly to neutralize the Pakistani threat.

It is certainly not required to have a common tactical and strategic communication system required for the communication of the weapons system. E.G LINK-16 is the common tactical data link of the NATO link for various systems including Fighter aircraft's, AEW EC, Ground Radars and units, and India have its own ODL with our own encryption for better security, however a device which could communicate between these two protocols easily, so how cannot the two forces with proper understanding cannot fight in one side as a multi national operation is out of my understanding.

So with due respects to all the BIG GURUS, what I see is that India was always opposing such agreements, and all its action, from own battle managements systems, to regional navigation satellite, to spy satellite to Operational Data Link to Indian Indigenous ABM system and buying US THAAD dictates opposite what the article is suggesting.
 
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US Protection ? That's the last thing any sensible non European Nation would look for.
Remember South Korea has something similar? North Korea simply sunk a million dollars of modern South Korean Navy ship and all that SK could do was increase the number of propaganda speakers on the border.



I think that Ukraine too had a gurantee of protection ? What happened ?
I think no sane Indian would like a deal where its like signing our own death wish.

Indian gov don't care what u guys in PDF want. India will soon allow US naval bases and AF bases inIndian islands and borders soon. After that, even Bombay will gave US troops station there.

This should not go forward.
Never.

I am not saying this for an Russian angle, but this will simply put India into the NATO fold.
And that's a bad thing for " Republic of India " we strive for.



What the heck we do with it? Bomb Canada or Mexico or North Korea or whom ?
We have " ZERO BENEFITS " from this .

It's a base for technology deal. Indians get weapons and technology. US get the logistal support. Just look at it this way, we put permanent troops in India for logistical support only. US has no need to occupy India. Just ask yourself, what its there for India to offer USfor US to share advance tech with India.
 
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Indian gov don't care what u guys in PDF want. India will soon allow US naval bases and AF bases inIndian islands and borders soon. After that, even Bombay will gave US troops station there.



It's a base for technology deal. Indians get weapons and technology. US get the logistal support. Just look at it this way, we put permanent troops in India for logistical support only. US has no need to occupy India. Just ask yourself, what its there for India to offer USfor US to share advance tech with India.

1. US Bases in India. Yes sure it will happen, but it will happen when United States of America becomes => Indian States of America.

2. We are not getting the tech for Free or in form of Aid, unlike our neighbours lol.
 
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Lots of theories floated by learned members over here on this issue.
There are few ground realities, one need to know before hand.
1. China is the largest trading partner of USA and vice verse.
2. Middle East is in a deep **it after successive interventions by US and Co. in Libya, Iraq, Syria, Egypt. Arab Spring after shocks are clearly crippling the boundaries, that were created between 1st and 2nd World war.
3. USA has waged dozens of wars but on smaller countries. Those who are floating the idea that US is coming for Pakistan is not entirely true. Yes, USA has been involved in destabilizing Pakistan but for other reasons. A dependent Pakistan with corrupt governments is in US interest then otherwise. All out attack on Pakistan is still not possible because, USA was not able to get hold of Afghanistan and secondly Chinese factor. USA has lots of problems in ME, Far East as well as with Russia. Not going to open an other front. If Trump wins, then brace for an other war.
4. All countries have their cards hidden, so cant say exactly what is going on right now.
5. Many people are forecasting world war. If God forbid, that happened. India, Pakistan, China, Russia, KSA, Iran, Turkey all will drag in.
 
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Lots of theories floated by learned members over here on this issue.
3. USA has waged dozens of wars but on smaller countries. Those who are floating the idea that US is coming for Pakistan is not entirely true. Yes, USA has been involved in destabilizing Pakistan but for other reasons. A dependent Pakistan with corrupt governments is in US interest then otherwise. All out attack on Pakistan is still not possible because, USA was not able to get hold of Afghanistan and secondly Chinese factor. USA has lots of problems in ME, Far East as well as with Russia. Not going to open an other front. If Trump wins, then brace for an other war.

I'm surprised you bothered to responded to this lunacy. Day dreams nothing more.
 
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I'm surprised you bothered to responded to this lunacy. Day dreams nothing more.
@waz
I responded, because its a wish of many Indians. From common one to higher ups.
They want someone to do a job for them. Offered Israel to attack Kahuta.
George Fernandes, their defense minister was the first to invite USA to attack Pakistan after 9/11.
So I thought to........
 
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@waz
I responded, because its a wish of many Indians. From common one to higher ups.
They want someone to do a job for them. Offered Israel to attack Kahuta.
George Fernandes, their defense minister was the first to invite USA to attack Pakistan after 9/11.
So I thought to........

My hat off to you bro, it's just these daydreams will continue till the end of time. You can't reply to every fantasy out there.
 
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Indian gov don't care what u guys in PDF want. India will soon allow US naval bases and AF bases inIndian islands and borders soon. After that, even Bombay will gave US troops station there.

Indian is not Taiwan. Taiwanese need American protection. Taiwanese cannot move an inch without America. It is better served if Taiwanese either become an American state or join China. Being an independent country without protection is impossible. Your mentality of the need for protection stems from this. Being Taiwanese. So sod off and be a Chinese citizen or American. There is no such thing as being Taiwanese.

I'm surprised you bothered to responded to this lunacy. Day dreams nothing more.

We are also allowed to come up with conspiracy theories :P
 
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No one except congress,bjp & cpim is not having a clear cut forgien policy.

Do you think the secular vs communal debate is real? The real issue is their leanings towards west or Russia.
 
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We are also allowed to come up with conspiracy theories :P

Oh know you're not, well not until some Pakistani posters have come out with theirs, which just happen to be the most craziest of all. :woot:
 
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Oh know you're not, well not until some Pakistani posters have come out with theirs, which just happen to be the most craziest of all. :woot:

That being said you will agree to an extent Indian Foreign Policy has been quite good over past decades. We don't want to join american crusades and never will, however if they offer us some juicy platforms who are we to say no .
 
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