India hosts Balochistan based terror head in its Capital.

[HRK]

It wasn't a "so" comment.

It was the choice of a starting point, for the debate to progress. Since you asked me to take the toss.

Based on the initial line of argument on "who started it"

Not that it really matters.

Coz I have always been about "who ended it"

And I guess so is India.

You are contradicting yourself .... first reread your own previous posts ....

Partition was the starting point for proxy game ... ??

Or is this by any mean justify your stand ... of proxies ... ?? (until unless you are another Akhand Baharat delusional)

be serious (again want to remind you ....)

& for your 'who ended it' read your own post

Think on that.

And what it means for the future.

keep in mind either both states will have their 'secure' future or no state will have any future .... as history teach us end game of every proxy campaign initiate a FULL WAR between India & Pakistan.

 

[vsdoc]

You are contradicting yourself .... first reread your own previous posts ....

Partition was the starting point for proxy game ... ??

Or is by any mean justify your stand ... of proxies ... ?? (until unless you are another Akhand Baharat delusional)

be serious (again want to remind you ....)

& for your 'who ended it' read your own post

Sigh.

Partition is the starting point for the debate. And for us to take it from there.

If you so desire, please choose an alternative starting point.

keep in mind either both states will have their 'secure' future or no state will have any future .... as history teach us end game of every proxy campaign initiate a FULL WAR between India & Pakistan.

We faced both proxy campaigns and full wars from you. We still hold all the territory we started out with.

So I like our odds on this one.

Why don't we continue what we have been doing?

And see where it takes us?

 

[third eye]

Inncorrect, it was India who started it, to avenge what Muslims had done to Hindus for thousands of years. One of the biggest reasons why i thank god every day for partition. Their is nothing to be proud of in knowing your country supports and finances child murderers.

Can you elaborate on the bold parts above ?

I too thank God for the partition but for different reasons

 

[Paksanity]

India can't go overt on Balochistan issue. It will be a fatal mistake I would want them to make. Status of Balochistan and status of Kashmir are two different things. It will only serve as validation of Pakistan's viewpoint. World powers are in need of Pakistan in Afghan context so India will be snubbed immediately.

Besides, let's not forget Iran's concerns here. Sistan-Balochistan has long been a troubled area. They would not to stir up a movement in Pakistani Balochistan as it can easily spread into their side.

Let's also not forget that Pak Military has made lot of progress in Balochistan lately. Momentum of Baloch separatists is lost and they are talking peace. Balochistan is physically attached to Pakistan's three provinces and coast unlike East Pakistan. Separatists can't succeed there. They can not be anything more than nuisance. India can give them diplomatic voice if she wants. It will only benefit Pakistan.

 

[vsdoc]

India can't go overt on Balochistan issue. It will be a fatal mistake I would want them to make. Status of Balochistan and status of Kashmir are two different things. It will only serve as validation of Pakistan's viewpoint. World powers are in need of Pakistan in Afghan context so India will be snubbed immediately.

Besides, let's not forget Iran's concerns here. Sistan-Balochistan has long been a troubled area. They would not to stir up a movement in Pakistani Balochistan as it can easily spread into their side.

Let's also not forget that Pak Military has made lot of progress in Balochistan lately. Momentum of Baloch separatists is lost and they are talking peace. Balochistan is physically attached to Pakistan's three provinces and coast unlike East Pakistan. Separatists can't succeed there. They can not be anything more than nuisance. India can give them diplomatic voice if she wants. It will only benefit Pakistan.

Good points.

But India does not need Balochistan to separate.

It just needs it to keep simmering.

Not necessarily brought to a boil. For the reasons you have astutely pointed out.

 

[WAJsal]

Can you elaborate on the bold parts above ?

'71, Indra Gandhi's remarks. It was India who started financing and training Mukti Bani, let's not forget the atrocities committed by Mukti Bani, there is pictorial proof of the fact if you are denying it. India poked it's nose where it didn't belong and moved on to Balochistan, FATA.....

So I like our odds on this one.

Why don't we continue what we have been doing?

And see where it takes us?

A nuclear war will be an outcome of full fledged war, no one has better odds.

Good points.

But India does not need Balochistan to separate.

It just needs it to keep simmering.

Not necessarily brought to a boil. For the reasons you have astutely pointed out.

Unfortunately for you fire is dying out. It really must hurt seeing rebels surrender in huge numbers.

 

[I S I]

Time for an open proxy war.

 

[Spectre]

Time for an open proxy war.

that sire is an oxymoron

 

[SirHatesALot]

Funny Pakistanis claiming that there proxy wars were limited to Kashmir, whereas fact is Pakistan supported radical extremists within India carried out several terrorists attacks including 26/11.

 

[third eye]

'71, Indra Gandhi's remarks. It was India who started financing and training Mukti Bani, let's not forget the atrocities committed by Mukti Bani, there is pictorial proof of the fact if you are denying it. India poked it's nose where it didn't belong and moved on to Balochistan, FATA.....

I had requested you to elaborate on two points .

You forgot to elaborate on the ' Thousands of years " .

Your assertion was - India started it.

The facts are as follows :

1. Pak stepped into J&K in 48 , sent razakars & troops after Hari singh signed his state to India. Technically , Pak troops & irregulars entered Indian territory & were kicked out of territory India now holds.

2. In 65 , Ayub under some fancy sounding names of operations sent in regulars into J&K.

So whats wrong if India repaid the compliment ?

Now don't take off on a disputed territory tangent. Pak tried that in 99 and had to return with its tail between its legs.

In any case if its ' disputed' why doesn't PA enter now ? .India abides by the Simla agreement & has not crossed the LoC in an act of war.

I await your reply on ' thousands of years".

 

[Bratva]

Sigh.

Partition is the starting point for the debate. And for us to take it from there.

If you so desire, please choose an alternative starting point.




We faced both proxy campaigns and full wars from you. We still hold all the territory we started out with.

So I like our odds on this one.

Why don't we continue what we have been doing?

And see where it takes us?

Give one instance where Pakistan started proxy war on its own volition not as a retaliation for Indian actions

Keep in mind Kashmir was not declared as either Indian or Pakistan territory back then. Just as Hyderababd annexion was supposedly done after alleged reports of Hindu massacare by Muslim rulers. We helped Kashmiri muslims who were being slaughtered by Dograa Raaj

A similar example of sending troops to annex a disputed territory is of Junagardh. We retaliated that our land kashmir is again being annexed by kashmir.

I had requested you to elaborate on two points .

You forgot to elaborate on the ' Thousands of years " .

Your assertion was - India started it.

The facts are as follows :

1. Pak stepped into J&K in 48 , sent razakars & troops after Hari singh signed his state to India. Technically , Pak troops & irregulars entered Indian territory & were kicked out of territory India now holds.

2. In 65 , Ayub under some fancy sounding names of operations sent in regulars into J&K.

So whats wrong if India repaid the compliment ?

Now don't take off on a disputed territory tangent. Pak tried that in 99 and had to return with its tail between its legs.

In any case if its ' disputed' why doesn't PA enter now ? .India abides by the Simla agreement & has not crossed the LoC in an act of war.

I await your reply on ' thousands of years".

1.Pakistan stepped in to J&K as a retaliation for Junagardh forceful annexion by India. Junagardh was a Pakistani state if you forget. So how come Pakistan is a offender when it was india who began war with the annexion of Junagardh ?

2. Kargil occured because you occupied our Land back in 80's, Siachen was a Pakistani area to begin with until you sent troops to capture it. We tried once in 80's failed then again kargil war.

So how come Pakistan is the instigator in all of this thing ?

 

[WAJsal]

You forgot to elaborate on the ' Thousands of years " .

Indra Gandhi's remarks after East Pakistan broke free. Don't need to elaborate, a google search will help.

1. Pak stepped into J&K in 48 , sent razakars & troops after Hari singh signed his state to India. Technically , Pak troops & irregulars entered Indian territory & were kicked out of territory India now holds.

2. In 65 , Ayub under some fancy sounding names of operations sent in regulars into J&K.

So whats wrong if India repaid the compliment ?

Now don't take off on a disputed territory tangent. Pak tried that in 99 and had to return with its tail between its legs.

In any case if its ' disputed' why doesn't PA enter now ? .India abides by the Simla agreement & has not crossed the LoC in an act of war.

Where is 'us' supporting terrorism within India in any of this. We took what was rightfully our's. answer to the rest of your post:

1.Pakistan stepped in to J&K as a retaliation for Junagardh forceful annexion by India. Junagardh was a Pakistani state if you forget. So how come Pakistan is a offender when it was india who began war with the annexion of Junagardh ?

2. Kargil occured because you occupied our Land back in 80's, Siachen was a Pakistani area to begin with until you sent troops to capture it. We tried once in 80's failed then again kargil war.

So how come Pakistan is the instigator in all of this thing ?

@Bratva , have it moved to Senior section.

 

[vsdoc]

'71, Indra Gandhi's remarks. It was India who started financing and training Mukti Bani, let's not forget the atrocities committed by Mukti Bani, there is pictorial proof of the fact if you are denying it. India poked it's nose where it didn't belong and moved on to Balochistan, FATA.....

71 was payback for 47 and 65 after that. Maybe if you had not fingered in 65, India would have let sleeping dogs lie.

Maybe not.

Either way you paid for that with half your country.

And it could happen again. If the fingering does not cease.

We wait meanwhile. And we arm. And we grow. We out-spend you. We out-lobby you. We even out-proxy you.

And we wait ....

A nuclear war will be an outcome of full fledged war, no one has better odds.

Then it makes all the more sense for you to see the light and desist. Before it is too late.

Unfortunately for you fire is dying out. It really must hurt seeing rebels surrender in huge numbers.

I can assure you Balochistan will always simmer.

It makes no sense to us without Karachi and Sindh. It only means some nautical miles of shipping saved over Iran further down the route.

But it is a sponge for your resources and attention. And hence will simmer.

And it will simmer because there are the ingredients in the pot most conducive, ready, and able for the simmering. They have fought how many Wars of Independence with your armed forces? 5 at last count?

Would you pass up a similar opportunity in India, were it to present itself?

that sire is an oxymoron

Three pointer.

 

[Zarvan]

After Pakistan Kashmir India turns focus on Balochistan

Updated: October 8, 2015 01:46 IST

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  • KALLOL BHATTACHERJEE
  • SUHASINI HAIDAR

BLO confirms presence of its political representative in Delhi After highlighting the alleged human rights violations in the Pakistani Kashmir, India is preparing to take an aggressive position on Balochistan, in a marked departure from South Block’s Pakistan policy of the past. The new Indian position over Balochistan became public when Balochistan Liberation Organisation (BLO) representative Balaach Pardili addressed a gathering in New Delhi on October 4, reading out a statement from BLO’s exiled leader Nawabzada Hyrbyair Marri. BLO, which is in favour of freedom of Balochistan from Pakistan, has confirmed to The Hindu about the presence of its political representative in Delhi.

Mr. Pardili, who originally hails from Afghanistan, has been living in Delhi since 2009 and was recently contacted by Nawabzada Marri to represent him at public meetings. The London-based Nawabzada Hyrbyair Marri is the leader of Free Balochistan Movement with a militant arm, Baloch Liberation Army (BLA), and BLO, the political wing. “I hope to facilitate Nawabzada Marri’s visit to Delhi in near future,” Pardili told The Hindu. In a statement to The Hindu, Nawabzada Marri said: “We wish that India, the largest democracy, have a clear policy about Balochistan. If Pakistani officials can openly meet the Kashmiri leadership, why shouldn’t India do the same?

The Red Cross does not have a hotline on Balochistan despite our repeated pleas. I want India’s help to start a crisis hotline with the Red Cross.” While the dynamics of the new policy have not been fleshed out, officials confirmed to The Hindu that both *** and Balochistan will be used more and more when India faces allegations from Pakistan over Jammu and Kashmir. “This is an evolving policy. Remember, that taking up Pakistani kashmir and Balochistan is an old idea that hasn’t been worked upon within the government over the past few years,” a senior official said, referring to a proposal for highlighting human rights violations in Pakistan during the previous NDA government under Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee.

Interestingly, National Security Adviser Ajit Doval, who is understood to have pushed the new line on Pakistan, was Director of the Intelligence Bureau (IB) in 2004. The event of September 4, in which Mr. Pardili featured as Nawabzada Marri’s representative, was organised by Bhagat Singh Kranti Sena which runs namopatrika.com, an e-publication supporting Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s vision of “broad-based prosperity” in India. Subsequently, the video of the event was tweeted by some Baloch activists.

Speaking to The Hindu, Mr. Pardili said he feels safe in Delhi and has the support of a section of the BJP led by R.S.N. Singh and Tejender Singh of Bhagat Singh Kranti Sena. Mr. Pardili is confident of creating awareness on the oppression of the Baloch people in Pakistan. “Balochistan is divided among three countries, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran. But the atrocities are taking place inside Pakistan which has conducted five military operations against the Baloch people and the last campaign that they began in 2004 has left 19,000 dead and many more displaced and missing. Pakistan also encourages the Taliban to torture the Baloch inside Afghanistan.” Tejender Singh says that next, Bhagat Singh Kranti Sena will take Mr. Pardili to the prominent universities of India, including JNU.

After ***, India turns focus on Balochistan - The Hindu

It's time to send some operatives in India and take him out as for other Baluch militants who now want to talk should be given last chance to surrender. As for India we need to start answering India inside India until we answer them in same tone they are not going to back off. They want war we should give them one.

 

[vsdoc]

Give one instance where Pakistan started proxy war on its own volition not as a retaliation for Indian actions

Both me and third eye have already stated the Indian point of view.

For many Indians, me included strongly, the creation of the state of Pakistan itself is the mother of all disputes.

I do not see lesser disputes being solved until we cut that Gordanian knot.

We helped Kashmiri muslims who were being slaughtered by Dograa Raaj

We helped Bengali Muslims who were being slaughtered by the Punjabi Raaj.

Fairs fair.