INDIA- HELICOPTER Competitions::News and Discussions

[sancho]

I know what you are saying. That would make sense.
But another competion later is something I was not voting for.
I thought if we are to select a heavy lift chopper then I will just go for the CH superstallion and then anyways i will need a marine variant so i can have a comonality of logistics and interoperability btn arms.

I never wanted Chinook though coz according to chinook website its a medium lift (almost heavy lift though). and its expensive too.

On top of that Mi-26 will be only for heavy lift.
but iam not sure if the CH53 superstallion will be able to carry nuclear mobile command posts for nuclear, coz in war they will be used for that too.
So I guess this is where it makes a sence for seperate competitions.

But selecting one chopper like Ch53 would have made our job easier.
The road you have suggested has is valid but I was thinking about this.

This would also have been a cost effective way.

Yes and as I said in my last post too:

Actually I don't think so, because these are heavy lift helicopters and carriers normally use medium lift helicopters like Sikorsky Sea Hawks, or AW Merlins for example. Such heavy helicopters are normally in use only with LPDs, or LHDs, so they could be useful for our INS Jalashwa, but less useful for our carriers.

Of course IF the navy would look for heavy lift helicopters too, the CH53 could offer commonality, but at the moment they simply don't have the need, that's why I doubt this competition is linked with them.

 

[sancho]

Originally Posted by jha:
"Ka-52 seems to be better than Mi-28...why is this not in competition...? "

@ jha
The reason (probably) seems to be the service ceiling: 6400 m (AH-64) v/s 5750 m (Ka-52). This factor becomes extremely important for deployment in the Himalayan areas. One of the reasons why the Cheetah (lama) has been a workhorse in Siachen etc. Any helicopter in consideration has to have outstanding 'hot/high' characteristics- Rajasthan/Himalayas. India is blessed with so many different kinds of terrain that her weaponry has to be suitable for.
Most European choppers did not have to factor this in. The Cheetah (lama) was designed to operate for Alpine rescues, hence its designed capability.

Hi guys, I think I found the reason why the Kamov Ka 50, or 52 isn't in the competition:

At the same time, IAF has completed the trials of utility helicopters and begun trials of combat helicopters. Boeing’s Apache Longbow AH 64D from the US and Mi 28 from Russia are in the fray.

In the utility category, Eurocopter Fennec 555 and Russia’s Kamov 226 are the two contenders.

The combat helicopter requirement specified tandem configuration, and of the three contenders initially, Augusta Westland is reported to have withdrawn its Mangusta.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/1013973-post695.html


The Ka 50 is a single seat combat helicopter and the 52 a twin seat side by side combat helicopter, so both doesn't fit to the tandem seat requirement!

 

[KEETARP]

I doubt that's the case .
Tender such as this large is very transparent and if Tandem seat was one prime req , they are not foolish to not offer Ka-50-2 .
Air-force saw tandem seat version earlier as well .

 

[sancho]

I doubt that's the case .
Tender such as this large is very transparent and if Tandem seat was one prime req , they are not foolish to not offer Ka-50-2 .
Air-force saw tandem seat version earlier as well .

The 50-2 is only prototype made for Turkey, not an operational version, not to mention how expensive it would be to develop such a version only for an order of 22 helicopters.
We can see the same tandem seat preference at IAF with the trainer aircafts.

HTP 32 (side by side) is grounded and should be replaced by a foreign tandem seat trainer. NAL Hansa (also side by side) was not evaluated and the next similar trainer by HAL, should be a tandem seat trainer too. So we can't rule it out!

 

[soaringphnx]

HTP 32 (side by side) is grounded and should be replaced by a foreign tandem seat trainer.

I don't mean to deviate from the topic, but I heard that the HTP-32 Deepak was revived in May 2010 and is to be fitted with a parachute recovery system (PRS) enhance survivability during an emergency in the air and to bring the trainer down safely. The decision was taken by IAF as it would take some time to acquire foreign trainers and the IAF desperately need to resume pilot training. Of course this is only an interim measure till the new trainers are available.

Source: IAF gives nod for HPT-32 revival

 

[jha]

Boeing AH-64D Apache a Favorite in Helicopter race for IAF ​

Indian Air force has been conducting trials for 22 attack helicopters ,while Boeing AH-64D Apache which arrived first for trials has successfully demonstrated it capability in deserts of Jaisalmer in Rajasthan few weeks ago , and will also be conducting similar grueling tests in the icy Himalayan heights of Ladakh in Jammu and Kashmir in month of August .

While its main competitor Russia’s Mi-28 will be arriving in India in mid of August for similar trials , but as per sources Boeing’s AH-64D Apache has impressed IAF Helicopter pilots mostly who have operated IAF’s current Mi-25s/35 Hind Attack choppers , Indian Air force have recently upgraded Mi-25s/35 Hind with latest hardware that includes night vision capability better sensors making it all weather capable ,but what might have impressed Iaf pilots seems to be shear fire power and better situation awareness capability of the Apache .

Retired Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major who himself was a Helicopter pilot was greatest Supporter of IAF acquiring Apache into force ,it has been said that Major had a chance to fly one Apache once and he loved it had appreciated Apache many times in Indian Media .

while its competitor Russian Mi-28 doesn’t lack behind Apache and is an all-weather day-night two-seater anti-armour attack helicopter. It carries a single gun in an undernose barbette, plus external loads carried on pylons beneath stub wings. It has two heavily armoured cockpits. Its engines are two 2,200 hp Isotov TV-3-117VM (t/n 014) gas turbines.

$550 million-tender to replace the ageing helicopter fleet was issued last year.and six contenders Sikorsky for the Black Hawk, Boeing for the Apache AH 64D, Bell for the Super Cobra , Eurocopter for the Tiger, Russian Mil for the Mi28 and Augusta Westland for the Mangusta responded for the RFI and RFP ,while other backed out due to various reasons including not able to meet technical requirements set by IAF .

 

[sancho]

Boeing AH-64D Apache a Favorite in Helicopter race for IAF ​

Indian Air force has been conducting trials for 22 attack helicopters ,while Boeing AH-64D Apache which arrived first for trials has successfully demonstrated it capability in deserts of Jaisalmer in Rajasthan few weeks ago , and will also be conducting similar grueling tests in the icy Himalayan heights of Ladakh in Jammu and Kashmir in month of August .

While its main competitor Russia’s Mi-28 will be arriving in India in mid of August for similar trials , but as per sources Boeing’s AH-64D Apache has impressed IAF Helicopter pilots mostly who have operated IAF’s current Mi-25s/35 Hind Attack choppers , Indian Air force have recently upgraded Mi-25s/35 Hind with latest hardware that includes night vision capability better sensors making it all weather capable ,but what might have impressed Iaf pilots seems to be shear fire power and better situation awareness capability of the Apache .

Retired Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major who himself was a Helicopter pilot was greatest Supporter of IAF acquiring Apache into force ,it has been said that Major had a chance to fly one Apache once and he loved it had appreciated Apache many times in Indian Media .

while its competitor Russian Mi-28 doesn’t lack behind Apache and is an all-weather day-night two-seater anti-armour attack helicopter. It carries a single gun in an undernose barbette, plus external loads carried on pylons beneath stub wings. It has two heavily armoured cockpits. Its engines are two 2,200 hp Isotov TV-3-117VM (t/n 014) gas turbines.

$550 million-tender to replace the ageing helicopter fleet was issued last year.and six contenders Sikorsky for the Black Hawk, Boeing for the Apache AH 64D, Bell for the Super Cobra , Eurocopter for the Tiger, Russian Mil for the Mi28 and Augusta Westland for the Mangusta responded for the RFI and RFP ,while other backed out due to various reasons including not able to meet technical requirements set by IAF .

Nice, that's what I expected too, the only point that worries me is the cost, because $ 550 millions / 22 helicopters would only be $25 million each. Doubtful that the Apache would be so cheap in such low numbers.

 

[d14gtc]

Boeing AH-64D Apache a Favorite in Helicopter race for IAF ​

Indian Air force has been conducting trials for 22 attack helicopters ,while Boeing AH-64D Apache which arrived first for trials has successfully demonstrated it capability in deserts of Jaisalmer in Rajasthan few weeks ago , and will also be conducting similar grueling tests in the icy Himalayan heights of Ladakh in Jammu and Kashmir in month of August .

While its main competitor Russia’s Mi-28 will be arriving in India in mid of August for similar trials , but as per sources Boeing’s AH-64D Apache has impressed IAF Helicopter pilots mostly who have operated IAF’s current Mi-25s/35 Hind Attack choppers , Indian Air force have recently upgraded Mi-25s/35 Hind with latest hardware that includes night vision capability better sensors making it all weather capable ,but what might have impressed Iaf pilots seems to be shear fire power and better situation awareness capability of the Apache .

Retired Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major who himself was a Helicopter pilot was greatest Supporter of IAF acquiring Apache into force ,it has been said that Major had a chance to fly one Apache once and he loved it had appreciated Apache many times in Indian Media .

while its competitor Russian Mi-28 doesn’t lack behind Apache and is an all-weather day-night two-seater anti-armour attack helicopter. It carries a single gun in an undernose barbette, plus external loads carried on pylons beneath stub wings. It has two heavily armoured cockpits. Its engines are two 2,200 hp Isotov TV-3-117VM (t/n 014) gas turbines.

$550 million-tender to replace the ageing helicopter fleet was issued last year.and six contenders Sikorsky for the Black Hawk, Boeing for the Apache AH 64D, Bell for the Super Cobra , Eurocopter for the Tiger, Russian Mil for the Mi28 and Augusta Westland for the Mangusta responded for the RFI and RFP ,while other backed out due to various reasons including not able to meet technical requirements set by IAF .

Gud News...so by when we shud expect the final result/decesion will be out on orders.

 

[drsadiabajwa]

may i ask u a q ?
if u dont like to ans i dont mind
my q is how many helicopters india do haf?

 

[jha]

Defective choppers bought for 182cr​

NEW DELHI: Even as it expressed serious concern at the alarming shortfalls in aging helicopter and aircraft fleets of Navy and IAF, the CAG has blasted the defence ministry for procuring six defective and phased-out UH-3H helicopters from the US for Rs 182.14 crore.

The six helicopters were manufactured in January 1961-July 1965 and were decommissioned by the US Navy in 2005 itself.

"Audit examination revealed the helicopters procured were life-expired and had many defects which would ultimately compromise operational effectiveness," said CAG.

The helicopters were bought from the US government under the ‘‘foreign military sales’’ programme, which is a direct government-to-government deal without any multi-vendor competition.

The helicopters were acquired to operate from the second-hand amphibious transport warship USS Trenton, rechristened INS Jalashwa by the Navy, also purchased from the US in 2006.

The latest CAG report, tabled in Parliament on Tuesday, said, "Considering the vintage of the helicopters and the obsolescence of spares, maintenance of the six refurbished helicopters by Indian Navy would be a challenging task. In fact, one helicopter has already been cannibalised to ensure serviceability of the other five helicopters."

The CAG report said the helicopters were bought in "as is where is" condition with‘‘no guarantee of supportability and replacement of defective rotables due to obsolescence’’.

Moreover, the helicopters are devoid of any type of weather/surface surveillance radar, which is the most important sensor of a utility helicopter during its "search-and-rescue" operations.

 

[sancho]

may i ask u a q ?
if u dont like to ans i dont mind
my q is how many helicopters india do haf?

Should be around 700 in IAF, IA and IN, but the number will even rise, because many new helicopters are coming in higher numbers.

Btw, does anybody have a source how many Dhruvs our forces has ordered?

 

[Break the Silence]

See guys, what I 've found

-

^^^ The new cockpit of Dhruv

 

[r4rehan]

APACHE AH-64 LONGBOW

WOW................. What a MAL-E-GHANIMAT

thxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[sudhir007]

for next 10 yr our Arm force Induct
Mi-17 IV - 80
Dhruv - 200 - 250
LUH - 384
LCH - 180
Heavy attack -- 22
Heavy lift -- 15
ASW Helicopters -- 60

So around 1000 helicopter Not too bad

 

[British_Bangladeshi]

See guys, what I 've found

-

^^^ The new cockpit of Dhruv

can I see the british armed forces please, and can someone make one
I want to see those brave soldiers