India has world’s third biggest defence spending now

[Mr Happy]

All the more to kill and brutalise the indigenous populations, that's all their armed forces are good for. They need a bigger budget fro their Tejas plane whose costs have gone up exponentially.

Still way behind USA.
USA and Russia the big boys.

 

[Robbie]

Perhaps. But the problem I have with croney capitalism is that always the loss making section is carved out and left to the taxpayers while the Ambanis get the cherries at penny on the dollar.

Sure we may get a lean, functioning company that turns a profit. But that profit has been made for the Ambanis etc because we, the tax payers, funded it.

I have coined a new phrase for this - Socialism for the Rich

I agree with this completely. But the economic logic still says that it is better to go with 'socialism for the rich' than crony socialism of GoI.

Even if assets are sold to these companies at pennies on the dollar, it would be a one-time notional loss. On the other hand, the cost of not doing that is actual, physical dollar losses every year that the taxpayer will lose.

Also, once these companies are made lean and profitable, GoI will start getting steady tax revenue from them, however small it may be.

 

[Joe Shearer]

It's not going to be full imports of course, if they can forge metal, they sell metal, critical systems are still gonna be made by firangs.

10 years ago, I was in Bharat Rakshak, the people were laughing at the Chinese, now they want to copy our approach. Still remember they were so proud of buying the best weapon while China took the hard road of reverse engineering learning absorbing and innovating. Now the effort is only starting to bear fruits after decades of hardwork.

But that was the point. It didn't start here. It started with the first Indian steel plant, the place I started my working life. It started with making steel more than a century ago. Now Kalyani has the capability of making barrels. Is it impossible to see that they, or someone else, will push to make each and every one of the component systems.

The SU27 - the SU30 MKI - was sold with 'steam' cockpits. I was there when X gave us the technology for making glass cockpits. Someone else did it, finally, but we got it, we learnt it.

Let the firangs make their money. All we need to do is to chip away one step at a time.

If BR people are now for reverse engineering, they are confirmed as asses. They were never right, not then when according to you they exulted over outright purchases, not now when they want to copy your approach.

 

[Mr Happy]

But that was the point. It didn't start here. It started with the first Indian steel plant, the place I started my working life. It started with making steel more than a century ago. Now Kalyani has the capability of making barrels. Is it impossible to see that they, or someone else, will push to make each and every one of the component systems.

The SU27 - the SU30 MKI - was sold with 'steam' cockpits. I was there when X gave us the technology for making glass cockpits. Someone else did it, finally, but we got it, we learnt it.

Let the firangs make their money. All we need to do is to chip away one step at a time.

If BR people are now for reverse engineering, they are confirmed as asses. They were never right, not then when according to you they exulted over outright purchases, not now when they want to copy your approach.

I love TATA.

 

[xeuss]

I agree with this completely. But the economic logic still says that it is better to go with 'socialism for the rich' than crony socialism of GoI.

Even if assets are sold to these companies at pennies on the dollar, it would be a one-time notional loss. On the other hand, the cost of not doing that is actual, physical dollar losses every year that the taxpayer will lose.

Also, once these companies are made lean and profitable, GoI will start getting steady tax revenue from them, however small it may be.

I admire your optimism, but you should be aware. Tax revenues will be minimal because accountants will ensure little or no corporate tax is paid.

I just would like to point out a couple more issues. Crony capitalism in Russia has ensured not really worked wonders for the common person. We got a few oligarchs who control the economy as well as the govt. Expect the same in India.

The other example is the US. US has repeatedly bailed out companies/industries from taxpayer money, even though the interests of the company have been opposite of the taxpayer.

At the end, I do not know what is the best way forward. I am merely elucidating some of the negatives that I can see, and what I feel would happen in the future.

 

[Han Patriot]

But that was the point. It didn't start here. It started with the first Indian steel plant, the place I started my working life. It started with making steel more than a century ago. Now Kalyani has the capability of making barrels. Is it impossible to see that they, or someone else, will push to make each and every one of the component systems.

The SU27 - the SU30 MKI - was sold with 'steam' cockpits. I was there when X gave us the technology for making glass cockpits. Someone else did it, finally, but we got it, we learnt it.

Let the firangs make their money. All we need to do is to chip away one step at a time.

If BR people are now for reverse engineering, they are confirmed as asses. They were never right, not then when according to you they exulted over outright purchases, not now when they want to copy your approach.

You are different. The first step starts with humility. Chinese are afraid of people who are humble and learn. They don't mind someone being loud and brash.

It is this spirit that will ensure self sufficiency. You need to start somewhere.

 

[Robbie]

I admire your optimism, but you should be aware. Tax revenues will be minimal because accountants will ensure little or no corporate tax is paid.

I just would like to point out a couple more issues. Crony capitalism in Russia has ensured not really worked wonders for the common person. We got a few oligarchs who control the economy as well as the govt. Expect the same in India.

The other example is the US. US has repeatedly bailed out companies/industries from taxpayer money, even though the interests of the company have been opposite of the taxpayer.

At the end, I do not know what is the best way forward. I am merely elucidating some of the negatives that I can see, and what I feel would happen in the future.

These are great points and certainly to be kept in mind. That said, just like the context in India because of which PSUs cant' work unlike in China, the political and economic culture does not allow private sector oligarchs in India unlike in Russia. Ambani, the biggest private-sector billionaire in India does not even come close to the power that even mid-level Russian oligarchs enjoy.

The US is a closer fit and your concerns are valid. I believe we should cross the rubicon when we come to it. Right now, India is haemorrhaging money because of PSUs. Let's focus on this first.

Sadly, I don't have trust that the Government will do the above.