India Has Lost All It's Credibility !

[Imran Khan]

as they have any credibility before ? even 5 years old kid know they were liars on f-16

 

[xyx007]

The wording from such an enemy who writes against Pakistan in her all life and has her Phd in enmity with Pakistan, such wording definitely solid point and truckload on Indian and big dent on Randian credibility which is internationally recognized that Indian are liers to achieve their political and her wording just rubber stamp. There's also report publish in US News & report a letter from US defence to PAF chief, a letter details American concerns about how Pakistan fielded fighter jets after a skirmish with India over Kashmir and how beautiful PAF chief responded to them. Mashallah.Pakistan Zindabad & Pak Army Pinadabad. Pakistan ka matlab kiya ... la ilaha illallah.
https://www.usnews.com/news/world-r...n-in-august-for-misusing-f-16s-document-shows

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

One swallow doesn't make a summer.

Indians defeated us in 71 , broke us, made us surrender, humiliated us and asked us to beg for mercy.

America droned the shet outta us for a decade.

It's about time incompetent Pak military especially AF does something about our low national morale.

If I were a Pak, I'd have little high moral right now for the following reasons:

• The USSR defeat in Afganistan due to tremendous Pak support ('71 pay back for USSR was the prime mover)
• The defeat of the US designs in Afganistan (and, the win of the Pak one). As per the US officials, it's due to Pak
• As for India, the Hindutva extremists are in power. The very existence of Pak and undermining her are their prime motivator. Already they have declared 200m Indian Muslims as enemies
• The only Muslim country with nukes, long range missiles etc.
• The proxy traitor scums at the top positions, sent to kill Pak from inside, are finally being taken out one by one
• Pak Deep State and her Deep Nation are getting aligned
• Yes, the Pak Ordu may be held responsible for some mega mishaps. However, now they’re at the forefront to rectify those and going beyond - be it economy, trade, international relations, internal stability, good governance or some thing else with a positive outcome....

 

[Dubious]

A Pakistani F-16 fighter jet flies during Pakistan Day military parade in Islamabad, Pakistan. Photo: Reuters/Faisal Mahmood

SECURITY
IAF Did Not Shoot Down Pak F-16 in Balakot Aftermath, Says US Scholar Christine Fair
Fair, whose work on Pakistan is frequently cited by the Indian side, took on former air chief BS Dhanoa, saying the IAF narrative is not based on an empirical body of facts but dictated more by “things deployed by politicians to win elections".

Chander Suta Dogra
SECURITY
WORLD 1 HOUR AGO

Chandigarh: Minutes after retired Air Chief Marshal B.S. Dhanoa attacked the Pakistani claim that IAF bombers dropped their payloads in haste and missed their target on February 26 when they bombed a Jaish-e-Mohammed terror camp in Balakot, Christine Fair – an expert on South Asian political and military affairs – said the IAF story of the operation and its aftermath is based on ‘dubious’ claims.

Fair, a professor of security studies at Georgetown University who has spent many years researching in Pakistan, stirred up a heated debate at the Military Literature Festival in Chandigarh on Saturday when she went on to assert that she did not believe India shot down an F-16 fighter during the dogfight between Indian and Pakistani jets in the aftermath of the Indian airstrikes over Balakot.

“I say this clearly with 100% certitude that there was no F-16 struck down. I do not believe you did. I believe that my bonafides as a critic of Pakistan stand for itself,” she said before a stunned audience. But Fair added that she and many others in the Pentagon actually wished that the IAF had indeed shot down the F-16, because India had “a right to bomb Pakistan” in retaliation for the Pulwama attack.

She, however, questioned the IAF’s narrative about the incident, saying that it is not based on an empirical body of facts but dictated more by “things deployed by politicians to win elections…. The world outside of India does not see things the way they were said here today. Though, I wish they were true.”

Fair is the author of Fighting to the End: The Pakistan Army’s Way of War, a brutal critique of the Pakistan army that analyses why it is a destabilising force in world politics.

File photo of C. Christine Fair. Photo: By New America, CC BY 2.0

‘India has lost a lot of credibility’

Amidst some interruptions from the audience – comprising mostly retired and serving defence officers – Fair went on to allege that the video of the purported F-16 going down in Pakistani territory and Punjabi speaking villagers talking about a pilot having crashed there, shared extensively on social media, was “fake”. She maintained that “India has lost a lot of credibility in the ways that certain images have been deployed through social media that do not show what they show, with the level of certainty that is asserted.”

Also Read: What Will Be the Strategic Ripple Effects of Balakot?

India awarded Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman a Vir Chakra for shooting down a Pakistani F-16, described by the IAF as an aircraft superior to the MIG21 Bison that Varthaman was flying. Fair, countered this by saying, “Avionics experts outside of India are unanimous in their opinion that this particular MIG Bison was superior on virtually every respect to that particular F-16 that Pakistan flies.” Cautioning India against persisting with this narrative, Fair said that it does not serve the country’s interests because “though a little Bison taking down the mighty Falcon might be good for political consumption but it also makes a case that your airforce does not need a more modern weapon system.”


Fair’s assertions now, are however a revision of her stand in March this year, when she held, “After various claims and counter-claims, it now seems clear that Pakistan shot down a MiG 21 and captured its pilot, Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman, who was returned after considerable delay on March 1st. India, in turn, shot down a Pakistani jet which crashed on Pakistan’s side of the LoC. The fate of that pilot is unclear: Indian sources claim he was lynched by Pakistanis who mistook him for an Indian pilot while Pakistani sources deny this claim without offering alternative explanations.”

But on Saturday, speaking in the presence of Dhanoa and two other senior IAF officers, Fair also questioned India’s claim of extensive damage to the terror camp at Balakot based on images from open sources, saying that from an international point of view, these have not been accepted. “They are refuted by many scholars who are actually India’s friends.”

Also Read: New High Res Satellite Imagery Suggests Balakot Airstrike a ‘Very Precise Miss’

She said the immediate analyses using satellite imagery done by independent experts “does not show the damage which we have been presented with”. The IAF has maintained that extensive damage to the buildings did not take place because it used guided Spice bombs that enter a structure through small openings and kill the occupants without destroying the buildings. Accusing India of ‘confirmation bias where it is presenting evidence that it wants to believe’, Fair said that the Spice weapons work in the intended manner when they are dropped on a “hardened structure like the Pentagon building” but while landing on a corrugated steel roof like the one at the Balakot terror camp, the structure would surely have been devastated.


‘IAF did not drop bombs hastily’

Earlier, former Air Chief Dhanoa, who is seen as the architect of the Balakot strikes, said during the same panel discussion that there was no reason for the IAF jets to drop their bombs hastily and miss the target when the nearest interceptor (aircraft) was 150 km away. The PAF had secured the Bahawalpur camp of the Jaish but there were no terminal defences at Balakot, which went to show that the PAF is not kept informed about the ISI’s terror operations, he said. Pakistan had vacated the forward terror bases in anticipation of retaliation after Pulwama, but the PAF did not anticipate the attack so deep into its territory and on Balakot.

Maintaining that details of the Balakot operation are still classified, Dhanoa added, “Operational capability involved in the Balakot attacks and our intelligence capability cannot be compromised just to win a perception battle in the media.”

Pakistan army soldiers walk near to the crater where Indian military aircrafts released payload in Jaba village, Balakot, Pakistan February 28, 2019. REUTERS/Asif Shahzad

He also disclosed the reason for the government’s bold decision to launch airstrikes in Pakistani territory was, “All the three services assured the government that should there be an escalation of the conflict, they are ready. This kind of limited period engagement suits the PAF as it cannot match a conventional response.”


But Fair said that the real worry about the lessons from Balakot, as she saw it, is that in any future conflict arising out of a terror attack, which she believed is sure to happen, the offer to off-ramp and de-escalate the conflict should be based on empirical verifiable facts and analyses and not on things we want to believe. She compared the IAF’s alleged misrepresentation of facts to Colin Powell showing photographs of aluminium tubes at the United Nations Security Council to tell the world that Iraq had a nuclear programme, when the USA was building a case for a war on Iraq in 2003. “He knew at the time that that’s not what the photos could show.”

Chander Suta Dogra is a journalist and author.

AGAIN?

How many times can one loose their credibility?

 

[YeBeWarned]

But Fair added that she and many others in the Pentagon actually wished that the IAF had indeed shot down the F-16, because India had “a right to bomb Pakistan” in retaliation for the Pulwama attack.

So this means we also have the right to attack Afghanistan and India , because India and Afghanistan has been involved in Terrorism in Pakistan , I hope Pentagon won't interfere and won't put sanctions on us if we bomb these two countries .

 

[maximuswarrior]

Usually India is the rapist, but in this instance India got raped by its own ally.

 

[Syed_Adeel]

If that's your yardstick,there should have been no Pakistani left

BY responding you are actually accepting that you are shameless

 

[PradoTLC]

A Pakistani F-16 fighter jet flies during Pakistan Day military parade in Islamabad, Pakistan. Photo: Reuters/Faisal Mahmood

SECURITY
IAF Did Not Shoot Down Pak F-16 in Balakot Aftermath, Says US Scholar Christine Fair
Fair, whose work on Pakistan is frequently cited by the Indian side, took on former air chief BS Dhanoa, saying the IAF narrative is not based on an empirical body of facts but dictated more by “things deployed by politicians to win elections".

Chander Suta Dogra
SECURITY
WORLD 1 HOUR AGO

Chandigarh: Minutes after retired Air Chief Marshal B.S. Dhanoa attacked the Pakistani claim that IAF bombers dropped their payloads in haste and missed their target on February 26 when they bombed a Jaish-e-Mohammed terror camp in Balakot, Christine Fair – an expert on South Asian political and military affairs – said the IAF story of the operation and its aftermath is based on ‘dubious’ claims.

Fair, a professor of security studies at Georgetown University who has spent many years researching in Pakistan, stirred up a heated debate at the Military Literature Festival in Chandigarh on Saturday when she went on to assert that she did not believe India shot down an F-16 fighter during the dogfight between Indian and Pakistani jets in the aftermath of the Indian airstrikes over Balakot.

“I say this clearly with 100% certitude that there was no F-16 struck down. I do not believe you did. I believe that my bonafides as a critic of Pakistan stand for itself,” she said before a stunned audience. But Fair added that she and many others in the Pentagon actually wished that the IAF had indeed shot down the F-16, because India had “a right to bomb Pakistan” in retaliation for the Pulwama attack.

She, however, questioned the IAF’s narrative about the incident, saying that it is not based on an empirical body of facts but dictated more by “things deployed by politicians to win elections…. The world outside of India does not see things the way they were said here today. Though, I wish they were true.”

Fair is the author of Fighting to the End: The Pakistan Army’s Way of War, a brutal critique of the Pakistan army that analyses why it is a destabilising force in world politics.

File photo of C. Christine Fair. Photo: By New America, CC BY 2.0

‘India has lost a lot of credibility’

Amidst some interruptions from the audience – comprising mostly retired and serving defence officers – Fair went on to allege that the video of the purported F-16 going down in Pakistani territory and Punjabi speaking villagers talking about a pilot having crashed there, shared extensively on social media, was “fake”. She maintained that “India has lost a lot of credibility in the ways that certain images have been deployed through social media that do not show what they show, with the level of certainty that is asserted.”

Also Read: What Will Be the Strategic Ripple Effects of Balakot?

India awarded Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman a Vir Chakra for shooting down a Pakistani F-16, described by the IAF as an aircraft superior to the MIG21 Bison that Varthaman was flying. Fair, countered this by saying, “Avionics experts outside of India are unanimous in their opinion that this particular MIG Bison was superior on virtually every respect to that particular F-16 that Pakistan flies.” Cautioning India against persisting with this narrative, Fair said that it does not serve the country’s interests because “though a little Bison taking down the mighty Falcon might be good for political consumption but it also makes a case that your airforce does not need a more modern weapon system.”


Fair’s assertions now, are however a revision of her stand in March this year, when she held, “After various claims and counter-claims, it now seems clear that Pakistan shot down a MiG 21 and captured its pilot, Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman, who was returned after considerable delay on March 1st. India, in turn, shot down a Pakistani jet which crashed on Pakistan’s side of the LoC. The fate of that pilot is unclear: Indian sources claim he was lynched by Pakistanis who mistook him for an Indian pilot while Pakistani sources deny this claim without offering alternative explanations.”

But on Saturday, speaking in the presence of Dhanoa and two other senior IAF officers, Fair also questioned India’s claim of extensive damage to the terror camp at Balakot based on images from open sources, saying that from an international point of view, these have not been accepted. “They are refuted by many scholars who are actually India’s friends.”

Also Read: New High Res Satellite Imagery Suggests Balakot Airstrike a ‘Very Precise Miss’

She said the immediate analyses using satellite imagery done by independent experts “does not show the damage which we have been presented with”. The IAF has maintained that extensive damage to the buildings did not take place because it used guided Spice bombs that enter a structure through small openings and kill the occupants without destroying the buildings. Accusing India of ‘confirmation bias where it is presenting evidence that it wants to believe’, Fair said that the Spice weapons work in the intended manner when they are dropped on a “hardened structure like the Pentagon building” but while landing on a corrugated steel roof like the one at the Balakot terror camp, the structure would surely have been devastated.


‘IAF did not drop bombs hastily’

Earlier, former Air Chief Dhanoa, who is seen as the architect of the Balakot strikes, said during the same panel discussion that there was no reason for the IAF jets to drop their bombs hastily and miss the target when the nearest interceptor (aircraft) was 150 km away. The PAF had secured the Bahawalpur camp of the Jaish but there were no terminal defences at Balakot, which went to show that the PAF is not kept informed about the ISI’s terror operations, he said. Pakistan had vacated the forward terror bases in anticipation of retaliation after Pulwama, but the PAF did not anticipate the attack so deep into its territory and on Balakot.

Maintaining that details of the Balakot operation are still classified, Dhanoa added, “Operational capability involved in the Balakot attacks and our intelligence capability cannot be compromised just to win a perception battle in the media.”

Pakistan army soldiers walk near to the crater where Indian military aircrafts released payload in Jaba village, Balakot, Pakistan February 28, 2019. REUTERS/Asif Shahzad

He also disclosed the reason for the government’s bold decision to launch airstrikes in Pakistani territory was, “All the three services assured the government that should there be an escalation of the conflict, they are ready. This kind of limited period engagement suits the PAF as it cannot match a conventional response.”


But Fair said that the real worry about the lessons from Balakot, as she saw it, is that in any future conflict arising out of a terror attack, which she believed is sure to happen, the offer to off-ramp and de-escalate the conflict should be based on empirical verifiable facts and analyses and not on things we want to believe. She compared the IAF’s alleged misrepresentation of facts to Colin Powell showing photographs of aluminium tubes at the United Nations Security Council to tell the world that Iraq had a nuclear programme, when the USA was building a case for a war on Iraq in 2003. “He knew at the time that that’s not what the photos could show.”

Chander Suta Dogra is a journalist and author.

self ownage for indians...


indian pals on indians...


what a glorious site

Usually India is the rapist, but in this instance India got raped by its own ally.

Indians do get raped alot... so nothing new

 

[GHALIB]

And then there are Indians who have adopted after cockroaches.....never to be extinct.

India has lost credibility? sure they have, no doubt in it. modi is scum

But did we have any credibility to begin with?
We just released heads of two biggest financial terrorists of country from prison, Nawaz and Zardari.

Lol... Lol.... Lol....

 

[Rusty]

Are we really surprised that Indians are full of lies?
For crying out loud every day Indians wakes up, look in the mirror and lies to himself "today I won't rape any woman"

 

[krash]

Fair, countered this by saying, “Avionics experts outside of India are unanimous in their opinion that this particular MIG Bison was superior on virtually every respect to that particular F-16 that Pakistan flies.”

It's fair to say that even when trying to talk sense Fair comes up with the most moronic statements. Pun intended.

how beautiful PAF chief responded to them.

I couldn't find the Chief's response. Could you please point me towards it? Might be going blind. Thanks!

Usually India is the rapist, but in this instance India got raped by its own ally.

Indians do get raped alot... so nothing new

For crying out loud every day Indians wakes up, look in the mirror and lies to himself "today I won't rape any woman"

Rape is an extremely sensitive issue, it's not something to joke about. There are countless innocent women in India and the world over who's lives were destroyed by it, let's show a little respect to them, some basic human decency.

I know you guys are better than this.

 

[alikazmi007]

Here's the link to the "Panel Discussion". See it for yourself...

Here's the Wiki on her;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._Christine_Fair

She actually wrote a scathing book about Pak Army and is very critical to its roles both domestically and regionally, especially supporting proxy militants ;

https://books.google.com/books/abou...ml?id=jjaTAwAAQBAJ&source=kp_book_description

Book has decent reviews. I just got the Kindle version of it and will share my thoughts when I'm done with it.
In the meantime, you can form your own mind by watching this;

https://books.google.com/books/abou...ml?id=jjaTAwAAQBAJ&source=kp_book_description (snooze fest...) does have splashes of truth albeit misconstrue, however, I do appreciate her analysis on Pak Army psychology.