India fuming over Russia lifting its Pakistan arms embargo, what next?

[he-man]

Do you know what % of Indian major weapon systems are Russian? What % was in past and what in future?

i know more than u will ever know.
the difference between me and u is that u are not thinking at all

 

[Kloitra]

i know more than u will ever know.
the difference between me and u is that u are not thinking at all

Why don't you educate me than? Post the figures, names, numbers and cost.

 

[he-man]

Dmitry Rogozin to visit India this month | Russia & India Report

Read the last paragraph here. Our Foreign ministry officials have dismissed "fuming".

Indian arrogance?

BTW do you know that 'spit on my face' is a figure of speech?

Also, the other thread there was a discussion about PAA acquiring the T-129 ATAK from Turkey and your leaders having inspected the helicopter.

Tell me something, with a cash crunch so bad, how are you going to manage Mi-35 AND T-129?

If you have to be effective, you need good numbers of them

Remember, Mi-35 is not a mountainous operations helicopter. It is meant for the European plains that was designed to strike out at invading NATO forces during cold war.





Not India, stupid Congress.

Although I agree that diversification is safe till we are self-sufficient but this was heights.

I was particularly pissed off when Mi-28N and Mi-26T both lost the contracts. Those are some of the most mean machines in today's era and both were meeting expectations.

i totally agree with u,,,,,apache has advantage in the radar department but russians have the provision for millimetre radar too .
but we should have thought in strategic terms which sadly we did not.

now we will pay a price for that,russians cannot let their defence induasry suffer while we buy from whoever we want??

can they?

Why don't you educate me than? Post the figures, names, numbers and cost.

don't test me dude,,i am here because i know this shit.
problem is u don't understand politics very well

 

[Zarrar Alvi]

India fuming over Russia lifting its Pakistan arms embargo, what next?


Rajeev Sharma is a New Delhi-based journalist, author and strategic analyst. He tweets @Kishkindha and can be reached at bhootnath004@yahoo.com.

Mi-35 helicopters (RIA Novosti/Alexander Vilf)




India is fuming with anger over Russia’s recent baffling decision to lift its embargo on the supply of Mi-35 attack helicopters and defense equipment to Pakistan.

Well-informed Indian diplomats told me on Thursday that the Russian decision would actually be the proverbial last straw on the camel’s back if Moscow does not abandon this move.

A lot of communication has taken place between India and Russia through diplomatic channels on this issue and India has conveyed to the Russians that until this red rag is removed once and for all India won’t be able to take it as business as usual with the Russians.

Russian diplomats have tried to calm the Indian nerves by saying that Islamabad won’t be given access to sensitive technologies. However, Indians are not convinced and are dropping hints of an all-or-nothing approach.

Though there have been no official statements so far, it seems that India would like Russia to scrap its plans to lift arms sale embargo on Pakistan completely. Nothing less than that would satisfy New Delhi.

‘Spit on my face’
Indian diplomats have reminded their Russian counterparts of very strong statements made by Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on October 14, 2012, during his official visit to India for talks with then-Indian External Affairs Minister SM Krishna. Rogozin had told the Indian media to “spit on my face” if Russia were to arm India’s enemies.

Sample the highly publicized remarks of Rogozin in New Delhi: “You must understand that we do not deal with your enemies. We don't deliver any arms to them.... If you see otherwise, you may spit on my face.”

Rogozin did not stop there, saying that Russia had no restrictions in delivering arms and weapons to India "because there are no conflicts and contradictions in our relations." He added: "We never created problems for India on its frontiers in difference from other countries. That is a political advantage (for Russia) as a friend of India."

Indubitably, the Indian diplomats would be reminding Rogozin of his remarks along with press clippings when he arrives in New Delhi at the end of this month.

Rogozin came to India just 100 days ago and said some very positive things about Indo-Russian ties. He talked in glowing terms about the possibility of a new oil pipeline between Russia to India which will run parallel to the $7.6 billion Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India gas pipeline. Rogozin had gone on record as saying thus about the new pipeline in his media interview: “This is one of the major infrastructure projects that can be implemented. I think it has a right to exist, but we should make calculations to see how profitable it can be.”

India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi (R) shakes hands with his Pakistani counterpart Nawaz Sharif before the start of their bilateral meeting in New Delhi May 27, 2014. (Reuters/Adnan Abidi)

Tough Indian stand bamboozles Russia
It is quite probable that given the solid, half-century-old strategic relationship between India and Russia, Russian policymakers underestimated the Indian response. They timed the move at a time when a new government led by Prime Minister Narendra Modi has just come into office.

While the Indians have dropped hints to Russians about their “us or them” approach – meaning that it is for Russia to choose between India and Pakistan – India has not come up with any official statement so far, nor is it likely to.

Nobody from India has officially conveyed the “us or them” approach to the Russians officially, nor has anyone told the Russians that India would go slow on its current defense deals with Russia and push the pause button in its relationship with Russia, but the fact is that all these are strong possibilities.

One thing is for sure: That Rogozin will be told in clear terms that the Russian move has triggered a question of trust deficit with the Russians, something that never happened all these decades.

The Russian diplomats are already realizing that they enormously underestimated the response of the new Indian government and perhaps mistakenly thought that the new government would be too busy with other issues to bother about the Russian move.

Yes, it is true that Russia has had “very good cooperation and cohesion” with the new Indian prime minister, as stated by Russian Ambassador Alexander Kadakin.

Yes, it is correct that Modi had three successful visits to Russia when he was the chief minister of Gujarat.

Yes, it is also correct that Russia never denied a visa to Modi, like many western countries, including the US and EU bloc did over his alleged role in the 2002 Gujarat riots.

But Russia needs to remember that Pakistan still continues to be a major concern for India and no Indian government can expect Russia to make this kind of move and arm that enemy of India which has waged three full-fledged wars with India (1947-48, 1965, and 1971) and one limited war in Kargil (1999).

India would never compromise with any country on the issue of Pakistan. This is the bottom line that all friends of India need to understand and this has nothing to do with who is at the helm of power in India.

did russia questioned India when you peeps started licking american boots arch enemy of russia and started buying from them and like typical hindu mentality now your govt is crying jo tum na kea tumhara pehla papa na uska badla lea

 

[Tshering22]

did russia questioned India when you peeps started licking american boots arch enemy of russia and started buying from them and like typical hindu mentality now your govt is crying jo tum na kea tumhara pehla papa na uska badla lea

Then buy it first and talk. What's getting you so pissed? You are paying for it right? Get it.

 

[Kloitra]

don't test me dude,,i am here because i know this shit.
problem is u don't understand politics very well

This is a discussion forum. You don't agree with me, prove me wrong. Give me comparative figures of arms composition, past, present and future, of Russian origin. Simple!

 

[TejasMk3]

I guess Russia has to look for alternative markets in the future anyway, so maybe this is a start, as the new govt wants to focus on manufacture of weapons in India, and hopefully we will export to other countries also!

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Then buy it first and talk. What's getting you so pissed? You are paying for it right? Get it.

No India is paying for it .. Or maybe USA or china ?? The almost 7.2+ billion for the armed forced..1.5 billion CSF .. 1.6 to modp n the FF group profits and profits from our defence exports tht rank in hundred of millions of $$.. Are all for show..



And we Dnt pay pensions n other stuff from our budget nor does the defence budget arm the paramilitary forces...

And another good news for your we just bought TAPV from Canadian textron company with complete ToT...

 

[illusion8]

Though there have been no official statements so far, it seems that India would like Russia to scrap its plans to lift arms sale embargo on Pakistan completely. Nothing less than that would satisfy New Delhi.


Indubitably, the Indian diplomats would be reminding Rogozin of his remarks along with press clippings when he arrives in New Delhi at the end of this month.


While the Indians have dropped hints to Russians about their “us or them” approach – meaning that it is for Russia to choose between India and Pakistan – India has not come up with any official statement so far, nor is it likely to.

Nobody from India has officially conveyed the “us or them” approach to the Russians officially, nor has anyone told the Russians that India would go slow on its current defense deals with Russia and push the pause button in its relationship with Russia, but the fact is that all these are strong possibilities.

@Tshering22

I just see conjectures, assumptions, maybe's, seems and could be's.

The funny thing is there is no statements, objections, let alone a single comment and the whole article does not name even one single Indian diplomat or official. Not to forget the source of the article - similar to all the other sources before - all Russian.

This little drama reminds me of the "on and off" SU35 saga with the Chinese.

One might wonder why is Moscow pulling this little stunt so early in the tenure of the new government. My conclusion is that they are trying to consolidate their position in India's diplomatic and defense spheres. They are looking for some reassuring statements from the new Modi government on the lines of we are with Russia all the way, and possibly more defense orders and conclusions of the running one's.

 

[Screambowl]

did russia questioned India when you peeps started licking american boots arch enemy of russia and started buying from them and like typical hindu mentality now your govt is crying jo tum na kea tumhara pehla papa na uska badla lea

Bakwas band kar chacha! the fact is deal is not yet closed, Chinese have made similar helis by stealing Russian technology, which is hurting Russian defense industry. That's why they are proposing to sell to you. If they don't sell it then the profit will got to the chinese. But this is just a start, deal will not happen after all. Wait and Watch.

 

[SrNair]

what i state is truth and u will see russians retaliate if we keep on getting more and more western equipment at the cost of russian defence industry

Retaliating is not that easy my friend.US alone dictates majority of arms supply
to this world plus western nations like France ,Turkey etc.
Now China also in a fast track for exporting their weapons and their main customers are Pakistan.When Pakistan face a choice of Russia or China ,they must choose China.And look at the defence market of India ,no 1 importer in this world.So Russians has limited opportunities here ,they dont have their old power or in near future they will become in the shadows of China. If they provoke us they will lose this market .And we pay them hard cash not on soft loan or aid.

 

[he-man]

Retaliating is not that easy my friend.US alone dictates majority of arms supply
to this world plus western nations like France ,Turkey etc.
Now China also in a fast track for exporting their weapons and their main customers are Pakistan.When Pakistan face a choice of Russia or China ,they must choose China.And look at the defence market of India ,no 1 importer in this world.So Russians has limited opportunities here ,they dont have their old power or in near future they will become in the shadows of China. If they provoke us they will lose this market .And we pay them hard cash not on soft loan or aid.

fair enough.

 

[Pandora]

Oh please Russians knew exactly what the response going to be. Question is what will Russia Gain or lose ?

Russia just wants to puts SU-35 on sale instead of Rafale. They are also pissed at other procurement by india from US such as Apache, P8, C-130 and so on.
I have said this on this forum and will say it again that we shouldn't get excited about possible deals with Russia as they will shift their position as soon as they get some incentive from India. Drop scene of this drama will be that India will put an order for some defense procurement from Russia.

 

[Screambowl]

Russia just wants to puts SU-35 on sale instead of Rafale. They are also pissed at other procurement by india from US such as Apache, P8, C-130 and so on.
I have said this on this forum and will say it again that we shouldn't get excited about possible deals with Russia as they will shift their position as soon as they get some incentive from India. Drop scene of this drama will be that India will put an order for some defense procurement from Russia.

They are also pissed by Chinese, selling weapons by copying Russian technology. This is causing trouble for Russian defence industry.

 

[Pandora]

Bakwas band kar chacha! the fact is deal is not yet closed, Chinese have made similar helis by stealing Russian technology, which is hurting Russian defense industry. That's why they are proposing to sell to you. If they don't sell it then the profit will got to the chinese. But this is just a start, deal will not happen after all. Wait and Watch.

Exactly In my opinion Russians made a calculated move by offering defense equipment to pakistan. Pakistan defense establishment did not even confirm any such negotiations. Pakistani media is in habit of making a buzz out of nothing.