India-France: DCNS Developing Sub-Launched Anti-Aircraft Missile

[trinity]

What it has to do with India ???
It will be the last thing we be needing. India is not going to be under attack from sea unless we decide to want to lock horns with uncle SAM but I don't see it in near future. Chinese won't do that either

China pre 2000 had a plan to attack circa post 2000's but we woke up to the threat level. China wanted to establish itself a sole superpower in the region with no competition and an attack on us would have helped do just that. It would also effectively help to seal any future border issues at all. Simply because winning such a battle would allow them to negotiate on their terms not ours.

 

[Sergi]

What do you think Pakistan's P-3C Orions are for? To detect and attack submarines. And these missiles are for shooting down any aircraft that threatens a sub.

You are over reacting.
- First thing these aren't our missiles. We aren't developing or buying them yet. Don't act like "Begani shadi mai abdulla divana"
- title is misleading. Nothing to do with India
- ya I know for what P-3C are. Still don't think they can do that without strong air support and definatly not alone. And is IN going to orphan our Subs when they see P-3C ??? And is this said air defence system is only thing to counter that or any ASW platform ???

I am not against this idea but common be rational it's NOT going to be in our priority list for more than 7/8 years. Our navy need more other important things. And those will be prority.

China pre 2000 had a plan to attack circa post 2000's but we woke up to the threat level. China wanted to establish itself a sole superpower in the region with no competition and an attack on us would have helped do just that. It would also effectively help to seal any future border issues at all. Simply because winning such a battle would allow them to negotiate on their terms not ours.

What are you talking ??? China attacking India by sea is disaster for them same as India attacking China in SCS. Only place where India and china might fight will be Himalayasa but nevertheless we will bring that battle to IOR as its a vintage point for us. Chock up point

 

[Sergi]

ASW aircraft are the biggest threat to any submarine and AFAIK, our current subs dont have any defence against these aerial threats.

Not denying it. Just saying we won't be needing them anytime soon

 

[trinity]

You are over reacting.
- First thing these aren't our missiles. We aren't developing or buying them yet. Don't act like "Begani shadi mai abdulla divana"
- title is misleading. Nothing to do with India
- ya I know for what P-3C are. Still don't think they can do that without strong air support and definatly not alone.



What are you talking ??? China attacking India by sea is disaster for them same as India attacking China in SCS. Only place where India and china might fight will be Himalayasa but nevertheless we will bring that battle to IOR as its a vintage point for us. Chock up point

Listen when preparing for a fight you want to be prepared in all fronts. Hoping an enemy fights in all one area is wishful thinking and can change at a moment's notice. We may have an advantage with experience and number of naval ships but we really need to update our missile inventory.

Not denying it. Just saying we won't be needing them anytime soon

How can you predict our need? We are praying to God we don;t have to engage in any fights, otherwise it will be tough and we will depending on UN and other tools.

 

[arp2041]

@sancho can Brahmos be launched from torpedo tubes or do we need a dedicated VLS module for it??

 

[Koovie]

Not denying it. Just saying we won't be needing them anytime soon

Our submarine force is not really the strength of our fleet just saying...

 

[Skull and Bones]

@sancho can Brahmos be launched from torpedo tubes or do we need a dedicated VLS module for it??

For Brahmos, we need VLS.

Our submarine force is not really the strength of our fleet just saying...

We're doing it wrong here, MoDs has been quite reluctant to build up a strong submarine force for effective deterant.

 

[arp2041]

Our submarine force is not really the strength of our fleet just saying...

In comparison to our fleet - Yes

But In comparison to other navies - No

Look at this in perspective

Only 6 countries operate a SSN/SSBN, India being one.

Only 7 nations have more submarines than operated by IN (15):

Total Submarine Strength by Country

Of the above 7, 4 countries - Turkey, Iran, NK & even Japan cannot be said to be a MORE credible submarine power than IN. If we put UK & France above India (since they operate more SSN/SSBN), IN is still at Rank-6.

+ If things go well for IN, it will be getting 1 sub/year for few years & even 2-3 sometimes:

Currently Operated - 15

Kilo class - 10 (Upgraded, will be there atleast till 2020 & beyond).

Type 209 - 4 (talks of MLU, will be there atleast till 2020 & beyond).

Akula-II - 1 (leased for 10 years i.e. 2022, lease can be renewed).

Planned Inductions:

INS Arihant SSBN - 2013.

Maybe 1 more Akula-II by 2015 or so (speculating).

Scorpenes - 6, first one to be inducted in mid 2015 & than 1 every six months till 2018.

Follow-on scorpenes??? there were reports that IN will go for 3 more scorpenes but never confirmed officially, if true all 3 will be inducted by 2020.

INS Arindaman & INS ??? (of Arihant class) - well before 2020.

P-75I - 6, construction should start by 2015, with atleast 2 inducted by 2020.

So, if all goes well, IN will be operating around 30 subs (conventional & nuclear) by 2020, easily placing it in Top-3/4 Navies in the world.

P.S. But if our Naval & Political leadership had vision, IN's sub fleet would have been it's biggest strength rather than it's weakness.

 

[ironman1]

You are over reacting.
- First thing these aren't our missiles. We aren't developing or buying them yet. Don't act like "Begani shadi mai abdulla divana"
- title is misleading. Nothing to do with India
- ya I know for what P-3C are. Still don't think they can do that without strong air support and definatly not alone.



What are you talking ??? China attacking India by sea is disaster for them same as India attacking China in SCS. Only place where India and china might fight will be Himalayasa but nevertheless we will bring that battle to IOR as its a vintage point for us. Chock up point

dude , yes the title is misleading as per "INDIA" . but rest is informative that we can use same system for our scorpene .
also don't underestimate enemy's capability and intentions ! wishful thinking does not help win wars , anticipation does !

 

[Sergi]

Listen when preparing for a fight you want to be prepared in all fronts. Hoping an enemy fights in all one area is wishful thinking and can change at a moment's notice. We may have an advantage with experience and number of naval ships but we really need to update our missile inventory.

It's nothing like advantage with ships. It's the location advantge. Logistic/supply and reinforcement and air cover. In IOR we are good with that.
And you forget budget. We don't have ample money to buy everything. I am sure GOI will consider buying more subs than the air defence system for subs right now. We will buy that system when we are done with our other needs.

How can you predict our need? We are praying to God we don;t have to engage in any fights, otherwise it will be tough and we will depending on UN and other tools.

What are you thinking of india ???? Republic of Banana ??? No we are not that weak. We can hit back and cause considerable damage too. If we are going down we are taking them with us.

And it's simple priority listing for the need. If we are considering IN we need more Subs and anti ASW platforms on fast track.

 

[Sergi]

dude , yes the title is misleading as per "INDIA" . but rest is informative that we can use same system for our scorpene .
also don't underestimate enemy's capability and intentions ! wishful thinking does not help win wars , anticipation does !

First point exactly what I was saying

Second wishful thinking ??? I wish I can drive tank regiment throgh Himalays
Common dude Indian geographic location in IOR speaks itself. A&N are forward posts. Any attack that came from that direction will lose the element of surprise. I don't think Pak will dare to do such thing on the otherside unless it's a full scale war. And it's not what I think. It's been proved in all wars against Pak. Considering their current status they will be more happy to defend their own coast than hitting our.

And I am surprised to see people are trusting the undeveloped system more than the assets we have. Man I am sorry if I am opposing this super duper weapon. I am just thinking when our subs are in water and enemy ASW platform in air aren't we going to send our Jets to take that down ??? Or our subs will be orphaned ??? And won't IN think of that threat ???

I was just saying its not in the priory list and won't be for next 5/7 years

Our submarine force is not really the strength of our fleet just saying...

I am saying the same thing too
We need more subs right now than any other thing

 

[trinity]

It's nothing like advantage with ships. It's the location advantge. Logistic/supply and reinforcement and air cover. In IOR we are good with that.
And you forget budget. We don't have ample money to buy everything. I am sure GOI will consider buying more subs than the air defence system for subs right now. We will buy that system when we are done with our other needs.


What are you thinking of india ???? Republic of Banana ??? No we are not that weak. We can hit back and cause considerable damage too.

And it's simple priority listing for the need. If we are considering IN we need more Subs and anti ASW platforms on fast track.

First let me remind of the sad state we were in during Kargil don;t forget. Let me remind of the sad state of affairs during 26/11. If budget is our main concern then nothing beats Missiles. Its has mulitple uses and can take out any enemy, anywhere. If we have more money for IN, I agree with Subs and ASW capability but we really need to push the envelope here. IOR is an advantage for us only if we make use of it. China is trying to overcome that by its pearls of string strategy and Central Asia policies. Till recently, we were so reluctant to use A&N islands. Fo me, since I was child this was very strategic yet it fell on deaf ears. Who do we blame defence planners or politics? This is huge problem that keeps coming back to bite us. Anyhow, we need to start claiming deep sea plots for future sea mining which China is doing in IOR. Submersibles, unmanned subs, and start planning to make new weapons like a machine to cause whirlpools and Tsunami's would be a great weapon offensive and defensive. Actually I think India military men and scientists can accomplish a great deal given the right vision, the right motivation and the right leaders. Sadly we fail in all three especially leaders till recently. We are getting better though but time to put some hot sauce in our *** and move. The only way to comprehensively get more powerful in all spheres is to develop in every detail. Primary and college educational facilities shoul dbe top notch, our goal should be to be leaders not followers. We were leaders one time, what is stopping us from doing that again? YOu keep on underestimating events. You state Pakistan wont step in. What makes you so sure? If I was Pakistan, I would. It is prime opportunity coz I could get some land and I can reliy on the INdian govt to not take it back once a ceasefire has been reached. That has happened before and that is not wishful thinking. We should unleashed a great deal of development this past decade post 2000 alone. So for me, they are all sort of untested but they are assets as well. Subs have always been a priority for me, more than surface ships or AC's. We need an creative design element attached to our defence organizations to dream up some incredible designs which our scientists and defence personnel can subject to user trials to see if it is plausible. Now, that would be a great idea. Sometims, just imagining something can be the best source of motivation and inspiration for our defence industry.

 

[Sergi]

First let me remind of the sad state we were in during Kargil don;t forget. Let me remind of the sad state of affairs during 26/11. If budget is our main concern then nothing beats Missiles. Its has mulitple uses and can take out any enemy, anywhere. If we have more money for IN, I agree with Subs and ASW capability but we really need to push the envelope here. IOR is an advantage for us only if we make use of it. China is trying to overcome that by its pearls of string strategy and Central Asia policies. Till recently, we were so reluctant to use A&N islands. Fo me, since I was child this was very strategic yet it fell on deaf ears. Who do we blame defence planners or politics? This is huge problem that keeps coming back to bite us. Anyhow, we need to start claiming deep sea plots for future sea mining which China is doing in IOR. Submersibles, unmanned subs, and start planning to make new weapons like a machine to cause whirlpools and Tsunami's would be a great weapon offensive and defensive. Actually I think India military men and scientists can accomplish a great deal given the right vision, the right motivation and the right leaders. Sadly we fail in all three especially leaders till recently. We are getting better though but time to put some hot sauce in our *** and move. The only way to comprehensively get more powerful in all spheres is to develop in every detail. Primary and college educational facilities shoul dbe top notch, our goal should be to be leaders not followers. We were leaders one time, what is stopping us from doing that again? YOu keep on underestimating events. You state Pakistan wont step in. What makes you so sure? If I was Pakistan, I would. It is prime opportunity coz I could get some land and I can reliy on the INdian govt to not take it back once a ceasefire has been reached. That has happened before and that is not wishful thinking. We should unleashed a great deal of development this past decade post 2000 alone. So for me, they are all sort of untested but they are assets as well. Subs have always been a priority for me, more than surface ships or AC's. We need an creative design element attached to our defence organizations to dream up some incredible designs which our scientists and defence personnel can subject to user trials to see if it is plausible. Now, that would be a great idea. Sometims, just imagining something can be the best source of motivation and inspiration for our defence industry.

I hope you know Kargil wasn't officially accepted by Pakistan till last couple of years. Guess why ??? They didn't want the full scale war.
26/11 - full scale war won't provide any solutions for such things. That was just a stunt. Actual actions taken would have been entirely different.

Pearl of strings: do you think that string can be supply line in case of war ??? If yes then it's a act of war.

I don't think a full scale war between India and Pakistan is ever possible again. And if you understand what they try to do in Kargil under the cover of terrorists they got the answer. So they will hardly do something like that again. Cuz it's clear now there won't be any cease fire unless we get our land back.

And please be specific man. Don't mix up things

 

[skysthelimit]

Yes..yes..yes.

Was waiting for such development for quite some time and here we have.

This is what we're talking about.

Saw the video - using underwater SAMs to defend against ASW helis - too specialized a use case to be of interest to India.

But torpedo countermeasures sound verry interesting - any details on that?

 

[trinity]

I hope you know Kargil wasn't officially accepted by Pakistan till last couple of years. Guess why ??? They didn't want the full scale war.
26/11 - full scale war won't provide any solutions for such things. That was just a stunt. Actual actions taken would have been entirely different.

Pearl of strings: do you think that string can be supply line in case of war ??? If yes then it's a act of war.

I don't think a full scale war between India and Pakistan is ever possible again. And if you understand what they try to do in Kargil under the cover of terrorists they got the answer. So they will hardly do something like that again. Cuz it's clear now there won't be any cease fire unless we get our land back.

And please be specific man. Don't mix up things

Who cares if it was unofficial? They played the game and ended up keeping a mountain peak. That speaks volumes. It tells us that they don;t care about conseqences, retaliation, official or unofficia status of war, etc. It tells us, if they can take advantage in any situation they will. 26/11 showed that we haave serious shortcomings with our training in Urban warfare. We should have a mock up of an empty built city to learn from. But we don;t. Training aside, our guns weren;t great when some of forces are using 303 and old stents. But we are improving. But remember this terror angle is not new. We are constantly being sized up for any weakness. Nepal, Bangladesh, etc. anywhere. Remember, that stunt killed a lot of ppl and highlighted how inadequately prepared our forces were. That stunt showed we had no plan in place for such encounters. Its not always about funding but planning and training.


Pearls of string.....well when they pan to use it don;t you think they will be thinking and planning a few steps ahead to nip whatever action we plan for? They already built a strategic reserve which they are increasing. They are making sure they have other viable options for re fueling. Burma and Central Asia for example. To be honest, holding us at bay within the IOR is good enough for them.