India felt it would win nuclear war with Pakistan

[pkd]

'India felt it would win nuclear war with Pakistan'

New York: In the event of a nuclear war with Pakistan, Indian leaders had predicted a bizarre victory, according to former US president Bill Clinton.


Indian officials had calculated that while 300 million to 500 million of their countrymen would die if Pakistani nukes hit India, all 120 million Pakistanis would be annihilated in a tit-for-tat Indian strike, Clinton is quoted as saying in a book.

Pulitzer Prize-winning author and historian Taylor Branch's new book, The Clinton Tapes: Wrestling History with the President, which goes on sale this week, has an unguarded Clinton venting about Indian and Pakistani leaders' so-called willingness to threaten the death of millions in their standoff over nuclear arms.

"Indian officials spoke of knowing roughly how many nuclear bombs the Pakistanis possessed, from which they calculated that a doomsday nuclear volley would kill 300 [million] to 500 million Indians while annihilating all 120 million Pakistanis. The Indians would thus claim 'victory'," Branch has quoted Clinton as saying.

New Delhi is likely to be furious with the observation, which portrays it as a government willing to play fast and loose with its citizens lives to notch up a bizarre win against Pakistan.
Clinton had slapped sanctions on India and Pakistan over the tit-for-tat nuclear tests in 1998. His successor George Bush lifted those sanctions after the September 11, 2001, terror attacks as a reward, particularly for Pakistan, for offering to support Washington's pursuit of Osama bin Laden.

Branch's 700-page book is the result of his access to Clinton, in 79 sessions, during the two terms of his presidency from 1993 to 2001.

In an interview with USA Today, Branch said Clinton, who had read the manuscript, expressed concern about some details in the book. Branch said he believed Clinton "was nervous" about the book's publication but had not asked for changes.

The Internet is abuzz with a smashed Boris Yeltsin anecdote in the book. Clinton recalled getting a security alert in 1995 that the secret service had found a whisky-tanked Yeltsin, in his underwear, teetering outside Blair House on Pennsylvania Avenue and trying to hail a taxi.

A longtime-friend, Branch quizzes Clinton on his political passions, his marriage and picks at the scabs of the Monica Lewinsky affair. One night in August 1999, six months after Clinton had survived the Senate impeachment trial, Clinton told Branch the Lewinsky affair began because "I cracked; I just cracked."

 

[pkd]

Indian officials had calculated that while 300 million to 500 million of their countrymen would die if Pakistani nukes hit India, all 120 million Pakistanis would be annihilated in a tit-for-tat Indian strike, Clinton is quoted as saying in a book.
"Indian officials spoke of knowing roughly how many nuclear bombs the Pakistanis possessed, from which they calculated that a doomsday nuclear volley would kill 300 [million] to 500 million Indians while annihilating all 120 million Pakistanis. The Indians would thus claim 'victory'," Branch has quoted Clinton as saying.

New Delhi is likely to be furious with the observation, which portrays it as a government willing to play fast and loose with its citizens lives to notch up a bizarre win against Pakistan.

Peace loving india LOL

 

[Omar1984]

"Indian officials spoke of knowing roughly how many nuclear bombs the Pakistanis possessed, from which they calculated that a doomsday nuclear volley would kill 300 [million] to 500 million Indians while annihilating all 120 million Pakistanis. The Indians would thus claim 'victory'," Branch has quoted Clinton as saying.

So 500 million Indians are nothing for Indian politicians?

All of Punjab on both sides of the border would probably be wiped out in a nuclear war between Indian and Pakistan.

The only areas that might not be affected much are the western provinces of Pakistan and South India but a missile was tested during Mushurraf's era that can hit any place in India.

Also the toxicities from nukes can spread to other areas and cause millions to die from famine and disease.

And Pakistan's population is much higher than 120 million.

 

[ouiouiouiouiouioui]

So who wins in case of nuclear war..let us do an analysis

one kiloton explosion : -

effected explosion area is 1/3rd of mile + Fallout effect extended to 1 square mile

For 10 kiloton explosion

explosion area 2/3rd of a mile + Fallout effect about 10 square miles

an assumption that both neigbours uses their entire nuclear arsenal against each other

Let us assume india and pakistan has 200 kiloton ready material

Target cities in Pakistan

Karachi , Sargodha , Lahore, Bahawalpur , Faisalabad , Sialkot , Rawalpindi , Sukkur , Multan, Larkana , Hyderabad , Shekhupura , Gujranwala , Jhang , Peshawar , Mardan , Quetta, Rahim Yar Khan Islamabad, Gujrat..........constitutes 36366181 people comes to .....................................
36 million people

it comes to roughly about 1622 persons per square miles take both the explosion and fallout effect...95% people will succumb......1540 people will be evaporated......in pakistan.....

thats deadly

now compare the indian cities...

it comes to about 42 major indian cities.......

so roughly the population comes to 105373521 with a square mile area of 274468.....so roughly it comes out to be 383 person per square mile.


take both the explosion and fallout effect...95% people will succumb ....363 people are evaporated .....thats rougly 1/5th of pakistani casualities.......

so vis s vis comparing both pakistan and india with a 200 kiloton warhead........for every 5 pakistani 1 indian will evaporate.....

it means...taking on pro-rata basis if india has a population currently to be 1,147,995,904 it means if we divide it by 5...the population of pakistan mathematically should be currently 229599181........but presently as per July 2008 census it is 172,800,048 which is a shortfall of 56799133 people.....

so in the worst case scenario..that is second strike capabilites of both the countries......india can evaporate pakistan 5 times before every indian evaporates ........mathematically it comes out India will win the Nuclear war .........................

solution for pakistan to win the nuclear war...to build atleat 5 times the nuclear warhead that india has at any given point of time ..........which i believe pakistan is doing right now or on this track....logically........however....we are not comparing any damages that has already occured pre-emptively because of the use of conventional weapons...before this scenario of nuclear war is taking place in both the countries........

For india the solution is to damage as much as possible through conventional weapons before nuclear war is started....that is logically what india is doing right now.... both countries are on the right track.....


have your say......

 

[MZUBAIR]

So who wins in case of nuclear war..let us do an analysis

one kiloton explosion : -

effected explosion area is 1/3rd of mile + Fallout effect extended to 1 square mile

For 10 kiloton explosion

explosion area 2/3rd of a mile + Fallout effect about 10 square miles

an assumption that both neigbours uses their entire nuclear arsenal against each other

Let us assume india and pakistan has 200 kiloton ready material

Target cities in Pakistan

Karachi , Sargodha , Lahore, Bahawalpur , Faisalabad , Sialkot , Rawalpindi , Sukkur , Multan, Larkana , Hyderabad , Shekhupura , Gujranwala , Jhang , Peshawar , Mardan , Quetta, Rahim Yar Khan Islamabad, Gujrat..........constitutes 36366181 people comes to .....................................
36 million people

it comes to roughly about 1622 persons per square miles take both the explosion and fallout effect...95% people will succumb......1540 people will be evaporated......in pakistan.....

thats deadly

now compare the indian cities...

it comes to about 42 major indian cities.......

so roughly the population comes to 105373521 with a square mile area of 274468.....so roughly it comes out to be 383 person per square mile.


take both the explosion and fallout effect...95% people will succumb ....363 people are evaporated .....thats rougly 1/5th of pakistani casualities.......

so vis s vis comparing both pakistan and india with a 200 kiloton warhead........for every 5 pakistani 1 indian will evaporate.....

it means...taking on pro-rata basis if india has a population currently to be 1,147,995,904 it means if we divide it by 5...the population of pakistan mathematically should be currently 229599181........but presently as per July 2008 it comes out to be 172,800,048 which is a shortfall of 56799133 people.....

so in the worst case scenario..that is second strike capabilites of both the countries......mathematically it comes out India will win the Nuclear war .........................

have your say......

Funny analysis.

In Nuke War Both countries will be down for ever. This is the simple analysis.

 

[ouiouiouiouiouioui]

Funny analysis.

In Nuke War Both countries will be down for ever. This is the simple analysis

i know mathematical model sounds funny...........it was just the check of the thread whether it is right or wrong......the person who has posted this thread according to you shud be funny also .. isn't.......

i just did the check mathematically whether the thread is right or wrong...and as per me it is correct mathematically...

 

[niket]

'India felt it would win nuclear war with Pakistan'

New York: In the event of a nuclear war with Pakistan, Indian leaders had predicted a bizarre victory, according to former US president Bill Clinton.


Indian officials had calculated that while 300 million to 500 million of their countrymen would die if Pakistani nukes hit India, all 120 million Pakistanis would be annihilated in a tit-for-tat Indian strike, Clinton is quoted as saying in a book.

Pulitzer Prize-winning author and historian Taylor Branch's new book, The Clinton Tapes: Wrestling History with the President, which goes on sale this week, has an unguarded Clinton venting about Indian and Pakistani leaders' so-called willingness to threaten the death of millions in their standoff over nuclear arms.

"Indian officials spoke of knowing roughly how many nuclear bombs the Pakistanis possessed, from which they calculated that a doomsday nuclear volley would kill 300 [million] to 500 million Indians while annihilating all 120 million Pakistanis. The Indians would thus claim 'victory'," Branch has quoted Clinton as saying.

New Delhi is likely to be furious with the observation, which portrays it as a government willing to play fast and loose with its citizens lives to notch up a bizarre win against Pakistan.
Clinton had slapped sanctions on India and Pakistan over the tit-for-tat nuclear tests in 1998. His successor George Bush lifted those sanctions after the September 11, 2001, terror attacks as a reward, particularly for Pakistan, for offering to support Washington's pursuit of Osama bin Laden.

Branch's 700-page book is the result of his access to Clinton, in 79 sessions, during the two terms of his presidency from 1993 to 2001.

In an interview with USA Today, Branch said Clinton, who had read the manuscript, expressed concern about some details in the book. Branch said he believed Clinton "was nervous" about the book's publication but had not asked for changes.

The Internet is abuzz with a smashed Boris Yeltsin anecdote in the book. Clinton recalled getting a security alert in 1995 that the secret service had found a whisky-tanked Yeltsin, in his underwear, teetering outside Blair House on Pennsylvania Avenue and trying to hail a taxi.

A longtime-friend, Branch quizzes Clinton on his political passions, his marriage and picks at the scabs of the Monica Lewinsky affair. One night in August 1999, six months after Clinton had survived the Senate impeachment trial, Clinton told Branch the Lewinsky affair began because "I cracked; I just cracked."

Bulsh** article

 

[pkd]

India-Pakistan nuclear war would spell global calamity

By Parveen Chopra
New York, April 8 (IANS) A brief nuclear war between India and Pakistan would rip apart the ozone layer and unleash global devastation - killing millions, besides triggering catastrophic health problems, according to a study by US scientists. Using sophisticated computer modelling, University of Colorado scientists Micahel Mills and Owen Brian Toon have showed that a nuclear war between the two South Asian neighbours, involving 100 Hiroshima-sized nuclear devices, would ignite urban fires and blast five million tonnes of soot 80 km into the air.

The soot would absorb enough solar radiation to heat surrounding gases, setting in motion a series of chemical reactions that would break down the stratospheric ozone layer, which protects the earth from harmful ultraviolet radiation.

“The scenario of a war between India and Pakistan was used as a representative of regional nuclear conflict, potential for which remains high with the increase in nuclear arsenal and the number of nuclear armed nations,” Mills, who led the study published Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences in the US, told IANS.

Mills is a research associate with the Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics at the Boulder-based university’s Department of Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences. Toon is the director of the department.

India and Pakistan are known to possess the smallest arsenals of the eight nuclear-armed powers. India has about 60 nuclear devices and Pakistan under 50. A nuclear exchange involving a hundred 15 kiloton, Hiroshima-type weapons is only 0.03 percent of the total explosive power of the world’s nuclear arsenal, Toon said.

Mills said their research found that the catastrophic impact from even a small nuclear conflict would be much larger than estimated earlier from a bigger nuclear war, when simulation was not that sophisticated. The indirect human casualties elsewhere in the world would be many times more than those who actually die from the war.

“We would see a dramatic drop in ozone levels that would persist for many years,” he said. “At mid-latitudes the ozone decrease would be up to 40 percent, which could have huge effects on human health and on terrestrial, aquatic and marine ecosystems.”

The upper stratosphere, heated by massive smoke injections, would accelerate catalytic reaction cycles, particularly reactions of nitrogen oxide gases that destroy ozone.

“By adopting the Montreal Protocol in 1987, society demonstrated it was unwilling to tolerate a small percentage of ozone loss because of serious health risks,” said Toon.

“But ozone loss from a limited nuclear exchange would be more than an order of magnitude larger than ozone loss from the release of gases like CFCs.”

The ozone losses predicted in the study are much larger than losses estimated in previous “nuclear winter” and “ultraviolet spring” scenario calculations following nuclear conflicts.

A 1985 National Research Council Report in the US predicted a global nuclear exchange involving thousands of megatons of explosions, rather than the 1.5 megatons assumed in the Mills-Toon study, would deplete only 17 percent of the Northern Hemisphere’s stratospheric ozone, which would recover by half in three years.

But the new study said ailments like cataracts and skin cancer, as well as damage to plants, animals and ecosystems at mid-latitudes would likely rise sharply as ozone levels decreased and allowed more harmful UV light to reach earth.
Mills said the next step for researchers would be to study the biological impact of the nuclear war scenario, which will damage all organisms, on land and on ocean, thus polluting the food chain.

 

[Righteous_Fire]

Indian officials had calculated that while 300 million to 500 million of their countrymen would die if Pakistani nukes hit India, all 120 million Pakistanis would be annihilated in a tit-for-tat Indian strike, Clinton is quoted as saying in a book.

Only a delusional idiot with the IQ of a dead stone would think like that!


Is the hatred so strong so as to eliminate all traces of humanity

So who wins in case of nuclear war..let us do an analysis

Thats the point, There should be no analysis on such stupid hog w@#h.

Nobody wins in a nuclear war, except for Cockroaches and death

we should have strong hated for all those who think otherwise

 

[ouiouiouiouiouioui]

But ozone loss from a limited nuclear exchange would be more than an order of magnitude larger than ozone loss from the release of gases like CFCs

who cares about ozone...when there is pakistan india war...

BOOM.....and the Ozone is gone..........this is the only way to reduce population in both countries...

 

[Righteous_Fire]

who cares about ozone...when there is pakistan india war...

BOOM.....and the Ozone is gone............

I know you are being sarcastic, but even for sarcasm.......

Shocking coming from someone living in the eternally peace loving France!!



I think France has failed to ingrain the love of "love" in this instance

Such matters should not be made the subject of jokes and ridicule

 

[ouiouiouiouiouioui]

I know you are being sarcastic, but even for sarcasm.......

Shocking coming from someone living in the eternally peace loving France!!



I think France has failed to ingrain the love of "love" in this instance

Such matters should not be made the subject of jokes and ridicule

you are absolutely right when you say.......but finally how you people are going to solve kashmir issue...you know u cannot take it fighting conventionally neither indians are going to give you in alimony....so how do you take kashmir...only by nuking new delhi......isn't......

pls let me know if you have some idea of taking kashmir back from india.....other than using nukes....


further there cannot be any direct nuclear war btw pakistan and india without kashmir..(considering US, Israel, China does not act as a first source or act as a catalyst)that is for sure clear........

 

[Righteous_Fire]

pls let me know if you have some idea of taking kashmir back from india.....other than using nukes....

Let me put it this way,

"Kashmir is far less important than the necessity to avoid a Nuclear Holocaust"

If we had to choose between the two, Kashmir will always be secondary to the safety of the millions on either side of the border!!!

and I can assure you, that even the most zealous Muslim in Pakistan will not want the life of a single Hindu soul across the border be distinguished by a ruthless Nuclear flame!!!

 

[ouiouiouiouiouioui]

Let me put it this way,

"Kashmir is far less important than the necessity to avoid a Nuclear Holocaust"

If we had to choose between the two, Kashmir will always be secondary to the safety of the millions on either side of the border!!!

well that is quite an optimist attitude...i hope both sides have complimentary attitude in political arena when such situation ever occur...................but i think you are not accepting the reality on ground...........both countries have fought several times over kashmir......what is the guarantee that there will be no war on kashmir this time....


further if this is the case u forgot what zia said..in his speech.......if u have opted out for humanity and not kashmir than whats the Game my dear for all these years...everything is wasted all efforts are gone......than why dont accept the LOC as international border and build new pakistan and india...why wait for such a time when there comes a conditions choosing between Humanity and Kashmir......

 

[Righteous_Fire]

well that is quite an optimist attitude...i hope both sides have complimentary attitude in political arena when such situation ever occur...................but i think you are not accepting the reality on ground...........both countries have fought several times over kashmir......what is the guarantee that there will be no war on kashmir this time....

Pierre, wars will inevitably happen on Kashmir, more bloodier than before,

it will always be a thorn in our sides, that will eternally ooze blood for as long as there is an India, Pakistan and Kashmir.

But, the possibility of the use of Nuclear Weapons is just baseless sensationalism.

If it all that happens, it will:

Be a low yield, tactical nuclear strike against military targets, and this too is completely disastrous for either side because of the shear population density. So neither Pakistan nor India will benefit from the destruction of a few major military targets when their people are ruined.

I think, people on both sides have sufficient reasoning to understand this quagmire, and it is with this that we must avoid it.