What's new

India fails to supply wheat to Afghanistan

If it's so much in surplus, why do people in India starve?
- Poor distribution system.
- Corruption in departments dealing with programmes for the poor.
It may not be liked by many here but Modi has changed this to some extent and has been successful in ensuring delivery of subsidy money directly to the accounts of the poor.
 
.
... but Modi has changed this to some extent and has been successful in ensuring delivery of subsidy money directly to the accounts of the poor.
Hey..., it's none of our business. It's your Country & your PM. If he does do what you claim than he's doing his job for what he got elected for.

Q. Does he ensure all ethnic groups get equal share into their respective accounts?

I mean let's not pretend that he cares for the Muslims of India when people from his own Party make hate speeches.
 
.
Same goes for all the countries to varied degrees. In Pakistan the Establishment controls a lot of information. And these become facts over time.
I would suggest that in India, the establishment controls all of the narrative, much more then in Pakistan. In Pakistan there is lots of room for criticism, which I do not find in India, especially in regards to certain topics.
Those topics being Islam, Muslims, and most especially Pakistan, it may also be the case regarding other topics, but they do not concern me and I have not paid enough intention.

There is a level of hate in India that people simply do not see, because they are so engrossed with that hate. I honestly do not say this for a shock value but honest interpretations of very real observations. First hand experience, reading sources, and since mass media also online sources. It is shocking how much baseless hate exists among Indians towards Pakistan.

Please ask him simple questions. He appears so self-righteous.
A) what is the % of minorities in pak in 1947 vs now.
B) what is the % of minorities in India in 1947 vs now.

Amazing, what kind of wrong thoughts indiaphobia & hinduphobia (that liberal media love to propagate) can produce.
A very valid question and an indicator of a society. I hope this link would satisfy your query. It gives data on Muslims considered to be most oppressed by FMs on PDF.

I did not find a link, I can only comment if I see that information. If your comment was regarding the inserted quotation, then that is another piece of silly logic applied by Indians. It is such a ridiculous argument, I do not know who came up with that reasoning and how it continues to survive among Indians. It is just astounding.

I am sure we are all aware about the colony of British India, which established two independent nations of India and Pakistan.
There were two aspects in regards to the process of ending the British Raj. The territorial and the ideological.

The territorial aspect consisted of separation of Punjab and Bengal, not India, but two provinces of British India. Plus a referendum in North west frontier province and Sylhet, the established provinces had an indirect say in their future, hence the need for two referendums, and separation of two provinces.
Princely states are not relevant to this point so I have not mentioned them.

The ideological aspect, the two nation theory, which essentially was a political interpretation of Muslim desire to protect their interests in any future political setup, post the British exit. Much like the Hindi/Urdu controversy was the political expression of protecting their linguistic heritage by Hindus in the early part of 19th century. They were both the same arguments, expressed differently because different realities existed.

It is extremely important to look at the pre independence population of the two territories of India and Pakistan. Let's not confuse British India, with India the country, they are two different entities, Indians seem not to be able to differentiate.

The pre and post independence population can only be honestly assessed when you taken into account the whole process of separation of Punjab and Bengal, as well as the ideological migration.
So, there was a migration between the two provinces, because they were being separated, and there was a wider ideological migration between India and Pakistan outside of those two provinces.

Other then the princely states, I will also leave Bengal out of this discussion, because it does not relate to present realities. So, from here onwards, Pakistan refers to West Pakistan at independence and 1951 census.

Pakistan had a non Muslim population of around 23% before independence. East and West Punjab also had similar ratios of minority religions, around 1/4 of West Punjab was Hindu and Sikhs, and around 1/4 of East Punjab was Muslim.
In the Punjab migration, East Punjab was cleared of Muslims and West Punjab was cleared of Hindus and Sikhs, I won't discuss the how and what happened, because that's an another discussion.

The second migration from rest of both the countries also resulted in a large migration but less so then in the Punjab.
The migration between the two countries continued at a slower pace into the 1950s, but by the 1951 census's in both countries, the process was essentially complete.

So for an honest analysis, we have to use the 1951 census as the reference point, because that is when both the states baseline was set, before whatever the movement took pace, was as a result of the creation of India and Pakistan. To ignore this essential basic fact is to spread lies and be deliberately malicious with the truth.

India had a pre independence Muslim populating of around 24%, and at the 1951 census, its Muslim population was around 9.8%.
So, should it be assumed that India murdered tens of millions of Muslims? NO, that would be utterly stupid, because we already now the history, the process of ending the British Raj in South Asia, and the creation of two new states of India and Pakistan.

Similarly,
Pakistan had a pre independence non-Muslim population of around 23%, and at the 1951 census was around 2.9%. Which now stands close to 4% according to the 2017 census.
It astounds me that this even needs to be explained, given the historical knowledge of the movement of people at independence, and the creation of two new states of India and Pakistan.

The Hindu population has increase from around 1.4% to around 2.2%, I can check again if exact figures are that important, but the Hindu percentage as a share of total population has increased by over 50% since 1951, in the midst of existing population explosion in the country. The Christian population was remained around the same as a percentage of overall population due to their concentration in urban areas and similar growth rates to rest of the country.

On a slightly separate note, given the question, it is relevant.
All minority religious groups in Pakistan, including Hindus have two votes, they have reserved seats as a share proportional to their population in the parliament and all legislative assemblies, plus they all have equal rights to stand and vote in open elections.
 
.
I guess you have completely bought the Pakistani narrative??

BTW - You have british flags. Are Pakistani origin?

Assuming you are born in britain, amazes me how much pak origin folks (living in other countries) bought the entire narrative.

Can you please grow up.
What's this crap about narrative? I'm trying to have a grown up discussion with a sensible person.

If you have a point, make it, create your arguments and present your facts, please do not give me crap about narratives, whilst living in that echo chamber you call India.


Where I am from or was born is irrelevant to the topic, and neither does it change the facts on hand. I am not here asking for a rista, neither to enlarge my circle of friends.
Grow up and argue your point, if you have one, or better to remain quiet.
 
. . .
I did not find a link, I can only comment if I see that information. If your comment was regarding the inserted quotation, then that is another piece of silly logic applied by Indians. It is such a ridiculous argument, I do not know who came up with that reasoning and how it continues to survive among Indians. It is just astounding.
All the aspects regarding migration after partition are covered in detail in this link.


Does he ensure all ethnic groups get equal share into their respective accounts?
Yes
 
Last edited:
.
All the aspects regarding migration after partition are covered in detail in this link.

I'm fairly aware of the different aspects of migration at the time of independence of India and Pakistan, as I've already highlighted, I'm not sure how the links contributes to this discussion.

But, I still had a brief read, there's nothing new that I could find.
 
.
There is a level of hate in India that people simply do not see, because they are so engrossed with that hate. I honestly do not say this for a shock value but honest interpretations of very real observations. First hand experience, reading sources, and since mass media also online sources. It is shocking how much baseless hate exists among Indians towards Pakistan.
Yes, there is quite a lot of hate for Pakistan. That’s because Pakistan has been fomenting trouble in India right since inception. Attack on J&K in 1947, Supporting Khalistan movement, material support to Kashmir secessionist have created the atmosphere of hate. Kargil in the backdrop of Vajpayee trying bus diplomacy is something no Indian can forget.

Now this discussion would boil down to justifying some of these actions. Pakistan feels just while supporting Kashmir cause. But for an Indian that is a complete no. This has to transpire into feelings which can’t be love and affection.

This hate is towards Pakistan. Strangely I don’t see it when quite a few Indians interact with Pakistanis. In fact I find a sense of bonhomie. Others may have different experience but that’s my experience.
 
.
Yes, there is quite a lot of hate for Pakistan. That’s because Pakistan has been fomenting trouble in India right since inception. Attack on J&K in 1947, Supporting Khalistan movement, material support to Kashmir secessionist have created the atmosphere of hate. Kargil in the backdrop of Vajpayee trying bus diplomacy is something no Indian can forget.

Now this discussion would boil down to justifying some of these actions. Pakistan feels just while supporting Kashmir cause. But for an Indian that is a complete no. This has to transpire into feelings which can’t be love and affection.

This hate is towards Pakistan. Strangely I don’t see it when quite a few Indians interact with Pakistanis. In fact I find a sense of bonhomie. Others may have different experience but that’s my experience.

See those issues are just drummed up to create hate, that's what Indians fail to realise, lot of what you mention has been misrepresented deliberately, except Kashmir, but that is a grounded reality. The 1947 is a grievance on the Pakistani side, and Kargil was just payback for Siachin. So everything needs to be looked at with perspective, rather then taking it personally. Kashmir and Punjab I recognise as issues but they have a basis in history.

Pakistan has a long list of grievances against India, but it is not used to generate hate in Pakistan, in Pakistan there has always been anger, but hate never existed, except among a minority. Only recently hate towards India has also started spreading, but not historically.

Pakistan's list of grievances included Indian terror activities against Pakistan since independence in 1947. India has been spreading terror in Pakistan largely through Afghanistan, but also through Iran into Baluchistan and KPK for decades. It also played a role in spreading terror activities in Sindh, my friend has seen Indian currency with his own eyes in rural Sindh in the 1980s and early 1990s. India also played a role in supporting MQM to spread terror in Karachi, and the massive terror operation that played a role in 1971, whereas Pakistan did not do anything in 1962, India stabbed Pakistan in the back. Then there is also Siachen.

The list on the Pakistani side is far larger, but it has not created an atmosphere of hate, that's an important difference. Anger is a justified emotion, hate is just wrong, in my opinion it always comes from a misplaced source.

I have known Indians since the 1990's, right now I have more Indian friends then Pakistani. This bonhomie is deeply misunderstood, there are different levels of hate, and I have experienced or seen all of it.

Indians see Pakistanis in 3 ways.
Pakistan the state, Pakistanis as a group, and Pakistani that you know as an individual.

The hate for the state is deeply ingrained, it has nothing to do with the issues you mentioned, but those issues have been used to justify the hate.
The hate towards Pakistanis as a group is a bit more mellow, but still very deep.

The only part where bonhomie exists is on an individual level, but that mostly exist when there is active interaction going on, as soon as the gathering changes, so does the viewpoint. Plus even during that interaction with the Pakistani friend there are always snide remarks, which come from that place of hate.

Plus, the Indian see the "we" as in the imagine historical "one" India fantasy, the Pakistani see we as the cultural historical link "we". That also creates issues, both use "we" but as soon as the "we" meaning becomes clear, the Indian's take it personally.

So the bonhomie, does exist on an individual level, but it comes with proviso.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom