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India Developing, but still a long way to go

China posts are relevant and I welcome them.

Costal city idea has merit, thanks.

Vizag, and others are coming up bit not to the Shezen scale, not yet.

I believe policy wise, India is doing the right thing by focusing on the DFC.

DFC is the quickest way to populate the arid west and decongest the stressed Ganga belt of UP-Bihar-Bengal.

China should feel proud of its new HSR rail system, but re: India local air travel between cities is cheaper than HSR.

Cheaper to build or upgrade domestic airports around the cities than HSR for now.

So I'm not in favour of India HSR systems now.
Better put money into a water system like the electric system modernisation underway with PPP model. Water is grossly mismanaged in India.
 
China posts are relevant and I welcome them.

Costal city idea has merit, thanks. I believe policy wise, India is doing the right thing by focusing on the DFC.
DFC is the quickest way to populate the arid west and decongest the stressed Ganga belt of UP-Bihar-Bengal.

China should feel proud of its new HSR rail system, but re: India local air travel between cities is cheaper.

Thanks. Regarding HSR, another advantage would be its energy efficiency and energy-flexibility. A standard 16-car train can carry more than one thousand passengers and is therefore far more energy efficient per person carried than air travel. Airplanes require petroleum, which India must import. HSR runs on electricity, which can be generated via coal fired plants, nuclear plants, hydro-electric dams, wind turbines, or other sources, almost all of which cost less than imported petroleum. Therefore, India will save money in the long run by switching to HSR for medium to short distance travel.

So I'm not in favour of India HSR systems now.
Better put money into a water system like the electric system modernisation underway with PPP model. Water is grossly mismanaged in India.

I agree, India is not ready for HSR right now, but it might be in 15 to 20 years. China began planning its HSR network in the early 1990s', almost 15 years before commencing construction. If India foresees the need for HSR in the medium term, then planning must start now to prevent falling behind future demand.
 
@by78 nice pics mate. You should be happy to know that, most of the above suggestions you've placed are either in advanced planning or early implementation stages in India, including the HSR which you are referring to.
Cheers.
 
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I came here to check out the latest from India, and all I see is some Sunday afternoon chapta chowmein?

P.S: for what it's worth, mudflat Pu Dong of 20 years ago had a lot more character than today's monstrosity-filled cityscape.
 
Not intending to disrupt the thread or anything,just adding a few pics taken of Shanghai recently for reference:

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Pretty boy you delete that Post Right away or you will see Indians attacking this Thread
http://www.defence.pk/forums/general-images-multimedia/75340-rapid-development-chinese-cities-90.html

Not intending to Troll or anything
 
@by78 nice pics mate. You should be happy to know that, most of the above suggestions you've placed are either in advanced planning or early implementation stages in India, including the HSR which you are referring to.
Cheers.

Thank you.

It's nice to know that many of these policies are in advanced planning or early implementation stage.

Regarding HSR planning, I've only heard of pre-feasibility or feasibility studies being conducted. I haven't heard any news of actual planning taking place.

Actual planning is rather different from feasibility studies. Planning involves conducting detailed geological and demographic surveys on all possible routes, which would include gathering information on topography, soil and sedimentation composition, and population information on cities and townships along proposed routes. Right-of-way issues have to be examined in detail so as to come up with cost estimates on land acquisition. Equipment lists and manpower requirements, along with assessment of current capabilities also need to be made and associated cost determined so as to develop or import technologies required to commence construction.

How will these new stations, routes, and viaducts impact the environment, both in terms of land loss and noise pollution? Will there be local opposition and lawsuits that might delay the project and drive up cost?

How many stops should the routes have, and how many of these stops need to be furnished or upgraded with train stations capable of accepting high-speed rolling stock? How do you work out the frequency of service, and how often should a train be scheduled to stop at any given city? How will these upgraded/new stations be connected with their respective cities (bus, metro, expressways, and/or taxi)?

Furthermore, rolling stock types, electricity supply issues, issues regarding the fabrication of viaducts, continuously-welded rails, cement production, etc. and related cost info. must be worked out in detail.

Financing must be nailed down at this stage and construction bonds should issued very soon to raise funding, which will amount to tens, if not hundreds of billions of dollars.

Then there are the highly technical and business decisions: should India import the rolling stock, or should it form joint-ventures with foreign manufacturers to produce trains locally? If India chooses to develop the rolling stock in-house, what is the timeline and cost for such undertakings? What about the signaling and traffic management systems? Should these be imported or developed indigenously? Where should the rolling stock production facilities be located, and how will land acquisition and environmental issues on these be resolved?

The list goes on and on, and solutions to all of these problems need to be worked on as we speak and be resolved within the next five to ten years if India is to commence construction in fifteen years time. Remember, after the solutions are 'found', they will have to be tested. India will have to construct experimental routes and run test trains for several years to iron out remaining problems, gain the necessary operating experience, and train the required personnel.

But before the experimental routes are constructed, they will have to be designed. Does the Indian private or public sector have the necessary civil engineering expertise for designing and constructing the infrastructure? Will foreign consultants such Siemens be needed to complete the design? Do domestic infrastructure companies have the necessary skills and technologies for constructing HSR viaducts, ties, and tracks, all of which require fabrication tolerances of less than 1/10 of a millimeter?

Then there is also the issue of acquiring and training the necessary personnel in sufficient numbers to both operate and maintain the rolling stock and track infrastructure, which are much more demanding than regular-speed trains.

If you have any information regarding progress made against any or all of the above, please share with us. Thank you.

Best of luck to India in her endeavor!
 
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Continued:

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And a very interesting one:

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shows how the mudflat that was Pudong 20 years ago has been transformed into a modern high-tech metropolis

Seriously, you should probably delete these before a flame war starts;) We are here for serious discussions on India's development, not to admire Shanghai.
 
Not intending to disrupt the thread or anything,just adding a few pics taken of Shanghai recently for reference:

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Dude, I posted some photos of Chinese infrastructure to demonstrate the commonalities of developmental challenges facing both India and China. I wanted a discussion on whether Chinese solutions to these challenges can be adapted for and applied in India, and what developmental experience India may offer China in return.

Thanks for the photos, but you probably should remove them before we descend into a flame war. Please be considerate of the Indian forumers.
 
Thanks for the photos, but you probably should remove them before we descend into a flame war. Please be considerate of the Indian forumers.

No. Be considerate to simple forum rules whether written or unwritten. Be considerate enough not to senselessly derail this or any other thread.

Thank you.
 
China will remain a Commie gigantism affected place, it's interesting to note from this thread how fast India is catching up. Sewage next.

Indian cities compare with S. Asian and regional cities. Think Dubai, Gulf, Karachi, KL, Djakarta and the lag is better apparent.

Delhi and Bombay, perhaps Calcutta, Lucknow, Kanpur and Patna are the challenge. Things are progressing well. For eg. Mumbai has an entire pvt. 100 storey industry. A dozen or so are under construction, and a couple of dozen planned. Flat bookings are open flat. That's a Global first!

HSR's have massive upfront sunk costs for track layout. I personally believe HSR will happen for sure for Global govt. funding reasons, but I care more for water first.

China has developed phenomenaly. India is not China, but also developing amazingly. China's major infra. and development is already in place, it should cleverly invest in India for long term financial security. All those coastal factories and business's should open an office in India and grow their India biz. re: market capture, and outsourcing and re-location as the Chinese local market matures. The long term India opportunity is far more appropriate for massive Chinese investor org.'s and other's far more than other large plays like Brazil, Pak. or Indonesia I feel.
 
China will remain a Commie gigantism affected place,
it's interesting to note from this thread how fast India is catching up.

Indian cities compare with S. Asian and regional cities. Think Dubai, Gulf, Karachi, KL, Djakarta and the lag is better apparent.

Delhi and Bombay, perhaps Calcutta, Lucknow, Kanpur and Patna are the challenge. Things are progressing well.

HSR's have massive upfront sunk costs for track layout. I personally believe HSR will happen for sure for Global govt. funding reasons, but I care more for water first.

Not sure what 'Commie gigantism' is. Could you elaborate?

I believe China's population size far better explains the gigantic proportions of its infrastructure. Does political egotism also play a role? Most definitely, which reminds me of the Mall on Washington; but that's another story. Remember, we Americans on a per capita basis still have more infrastructure than the Chinese.

But back to India, which is in obvious need of accelerated infrastructure development. Jugaad and sab-chalta-hai-ism will no longer do. It's time to cast off the Gandhian Modesty and embrace Gigantism with gusto. Only then will India's needs be met, including the all urgent provision of potable water.

The overarching lesson should be: a large country should never make small plans. I only wish America could re-imbibe that.

Cheers!
 

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