India cut out of Turkey talks

[justanobserver]

I'm not racist or a hater of Hindus ! For me it seems like India have hegemonic ambitions in the middle East and Central Asian Region. The growth of India is depend on the Oil, so India must seek direct Access to both Regions ! The only Barrier which seperate India to gain direct Acess to middle East and central Asia is Pakistan !

You do realize that we multiple warm water ports right there in the Arabian Sea (something which has been erstwhile USSR's/China's dream).

True we're in a tight spot considering land access, but we have excellent naval access.

That mean India have no interest on a strong Pakistan ! Pakistan must be destroyed and splittet in three or five States which are weak and have no political Weight in the Region.

India and Pakistan are enemies, and of-course India would want to be the de-facto regional power...I would leave it there.

So far the Mumbai Attacks were only a Reason to blame Pakistan on Terror to archive the Goal of dominating the Region and become a World Power in Long Term !

*Sigh* Just when I thought you were sensible. So you believe that the Mumbai attacks were a false flag operation by India ?!!



Edit: forgot to see this part

Forget it,that skywalker guy was posting Zaid hamid's analysis(on Mumbai attacks) on Mumbai attacks thread.

 

[MadDog]

Mr Abir...i had a huge debate on the issue of ethinicity of people of Pakistani Punjab with a indian dude on this forum this morning..u can check it..here is my part which will explain u why other than gujjars, jutts, rajputs and araees which are in considerable amount...other than these there are people of diverese ethinic backgrounds in Pakistan's Punjab who fluently speak Punjabi....Indian Punjabis are natives while most of ppl on Pakistan's Punjab side arn't dendents of natives...here is why

The group which indians claim is associated with them is punjabis.
Let's examine this province of punjab.

-you have millions of people in punjab from families of Sayyed, Qureshi, shah, Salara, Awans, the Khagga, the Dhund Abbasi, the Dhanyal, the Hans, the Hashmi (Nekokara), the Kahut and the Bodla,Thaheem ...their ancestors started comming to south punjab once it was part of ummayad caliphate and later abbasid caliphate....Muhammad Bin Qasim himself came up to Multan with 20000 Syrian Cavilary...and all of these have family histories dating back to arrival of arabs during rule of ummayads and abbasids.

- The families whose ancestors converted to islam include jatts, rajputs , araees and few other muhajir families and they are in large numbers but not in majority as our indian friends claim.

-There were mass migrations from muslim areas of central asia and persia to muslim ruled indian subcontinent due to Mongol invasions...and from Karachi to Punjab..people with their decent could be found ranging from sindh to northern pakistan and even in kashmir......

- In Punjab tribes who claim to come from afghanistan are gardezis (from gardez) a shia tribe in south punjab, sadozai ( again from Tarnak, Kandahar, and Kabul and are decendants of ahmed shah abdali) are spread out from peshawar to lahore and kashmir with some decedants even in present day india.

- Northern Punjab...u have people like niazis (pushtun tribe but mainly in mianwali, with significant niazi diaspora in lahor, karachi, islamabad , chakwal, parts of afghanistan)...some also call these ppl "punjabi pathans" espeacialy those in punjab...some famous niazis include imran khan a famous politician.

Hence in Pakistan's Punjab unlike Indian Punjab.....there are people from diverse ethinic backgrounds...including the local indian background...but they arnt in majority as u claim...dont forget more than 4-5 million natives of Punjab..migrated from Pakistan's Punjab to India

 

[LaBong]

Mr Abir...i had a huge debate on the issue of ethinicity of people of Pakistani Punjab with a indian dude on this forum this morning..u can check it..here is my part which will explain u why other than gujjars, jutts, rajputs and araees which are in considerable amount...other than these there are people of diverese ethinic backgrounds in Pakistan's Punjab who fluently speak Punjabi....Indian Punjabis are natives while most of ppl on Pakistan's Punjab side arn't dendents of natives...here is why

I don't really care what Pakistani Punjabis are made of. I'm not a Punjabi to begin with. Please read Agnostic Muslim's post which addresses my concern.

The interests of all ethnic groups in Afghanistan need to be taken into account just as the interests of all ethnic groups in Pakistan, India or any other nation need to be taken into account. Whether Afghanistan has traditionally/historically had more Pashtun rulers than non-Pashtun is irrelevant.

As a single nation, no ethnic group should be able to claim 'special status' over the other, and they need to come together to develop a consensus formula on resource, power sharing, provincial autonomy etc, much like Pakistan is currently doing.

 

[Fasih Khan]

Supporting Indias stance on Kashmir will be Suicide for Turkey and harm it's interest in Central Asia in long Term. Pakistan have ever helped us in bad Times and we also help them in bad Times.

Supporting Indias stance is also a great betrayal on brave Turkic Rulers like Timur and Babur which conquerd Parts of the Indian Subcontinent.

Pakistan is the Israel of Turkistan !

Long Live Pak Turk Dostee.

 

[darkhand08]

I'm not racist or a hater of Hindus ! For me it seems like India have hegemonic ambitions in the middle East and Central Asian Region. The growth of India is depend on the Oil, so India must seek direct Access to both Regions ! The only Barrier which seperate India to gain direct Acess to middle East and central Asia is Pakistan !

That mean India have no interest on a strong Pakistan ! Pakistan must be destroyed and splittet in three or five States which are weak and have no political Weight in the Region.

So far the Mumbai Attacks were only a Reason to blame Pakistan on Terror to archive the Goal of dominating the Region and become a World Power in Long Term !

get a life..

 

[somebozo]

India is asking rather begging every country even our close allies to help her deal with Pakistan..On one hand it uses every opportunity to derail and demonize Pakistan while talking about peace and people to people contacts then goes round the globe begging for assistance against Pakistan while calling itself a rising power..come on think seriously...a rising power needs help from all the power around the world in dealing with a small eastern neighbors yet fails to accomplish anything..these things don't come to me as surprise..typical Indian politician mentality of backstab, manipulation, decit and thinking of themselves as very clever while coming out utter fool.

India can only ride as high as its so called economic miracle allows it too..rather staged economic show..once that bubble bust either India will find itself under massive foreign debt or total collapse much like the USA.

India has always remained ambitious on its hegemonic designs despite being beaten and even colonized in this game for hundreds of years.

 

[sensenreason]

Mr Abir...i had a huge debate on the issue of ethinicity of people of Pakistani Punjab with a indian dude on this forum this morning..u can check it..here is my part which will explain u why other than gujjars, jutts, rajputs and araees which are in considerable amount...other than these there are people of diverese ethinic backgrounds in Pakistan's Punjab who fluently speak Punjabi....Indian Punjabis are natives while most of ppl on Pakistan's Punjab side arn't dendents of natives...here is why

The group which indians claim is associated with them is punjabis.
Let's examine this province of punjab.

-you have millions of people in punjab from families of Sayyed, Qureshi, shah, Salara, Awans, the Khagga, the Dhund Abbasi, the Dhanyal, the Hans, the Hashmi (Nekokara), the Kahut and the Bodla,Thaheem ...their ancestors started comming to south punjab once it was part of ummayad caliphate and later abbasid caliphate....Muhammad Bin Qasim himself came up to Multan with 20000 Syrian Cavilary...and all of these have family histories dating back to arrival of arabs during rule of ummayads and abbasids.
- The families whose ancestors converted to islam include jatts, rajputs , araees and few other muhajir families and they are in large numbers but not in majority as our indian friends claim.

-There were mass migrations from muslim areas of central asia and persia to muslim ruled indian subcontinent due to Mongol invasions...and from Karachi to Punjab..people with their decent could be found ranging from sindh to northern pakistan and even in kashmir......

- In Punjab tribes who claim to come from afghanistan are gardezis (from gardez) a shia tribe in south punjab, sadozai ( again from Tarnak, Kandahar, and Kabul and are decendants of ahmed shah abdali) are spread out from peshawar to lahore and kashmir with some decedants even in present day india.

- Northern Punjab...u have people like niazis (pushtun tribe but mainly in mianwali, with significant niazi diaspora in lahor, karachi, islamabad , chakwal, parts of afghanistan)...some also call these ppl "punjabi pathans" espeacialy those in punjab...some famous niazis include imran khan a famous politician.

Hence in Pakistan's Punjab unlike Indian Punjab.....there are people from diverse ethinic backgrounds...including the local indian background...but they arnt in majority as u claim...dont forget more than 4-5 million natives of Punjab..migrated from Pakistan's Punjab to India

All this is lot of $%#%crap.Sinhalese in Srilanka claim to be the original inhabitants of IVC, Konkanese Brahmins claim to be the original descendants of Aryans.

There has been found no iota of truth that Indian subcontinent has two kinds of people natives and conqerors.Everyone wants to be on the conqueror bandwagon and no one wants anything to do with being a native.

As far as Pakistani Punjab goes while there was migration from world over across India and surely was from Mid East to North West India but the genetic lines are blurred at best and non-existent at worst.

If the theory of racists is true than the wars against Indian states by Muslim invaders were won mostly due to the divided nature of India (which has its roots in some other things) else today Pakistan wont be in the state its today.

The main difference in colonisation of India and China was to do with Political differences.India was divided into small states run by Kings and Princes and hence conquerored by outsiders who could play the role of 'uniting' India.While China was politically a single unit but had its own faultlines that colonists exploited and created their own protectorates.

Punjab in Indian side got divided into many states of which one of them is Punjab and hence the relative homogenity.

When Muslim invaders came they converted Hindus into Muslims and got married into locals and therefore the current Hindus have bloodlines to those invaders as do the Muslims.......no amount of head shaking, denying and history fudging will change that.

As for Turkey - If they are so proud of the Ottomans am not sure why they are desperate to be in the EU and out of 'Asia'.Their complexes are wierd...why not accept the facts as they are...

 

[ASQ-1918]

Turkistan is the Ragion were Turkic People settlet after their Movements from Altay, the Region include Turkey, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kirgistan and Xingyiang(East Turkistan) were Uyghurs live. All other Countries except Turkey have no direct Access to International Waters. Only Pakistan and Turkey can provide them an Access to international Sea Waters.

Turkey and Azerbaijan are not Turkistan. Turkistan are Central Asian Turkic countries.

 

[MadDog]

Sir as i mentioned before there are 40 million pushtuns in pak....a completely diff bloodline..nothing to do with india....check online a research by american jewish guy on this topic.....leave all the provinces aside...lets talk about punjab...which u think is related...as i said...there is nothing to be ashamed of the rajputs, gujjars, jatts in Pakistan are extremely proud of their native indian bloodlines...same is the case of shahs and sayyeds and qureshis...and the families in punjab i mentioned they ve family trees dating back to the time of ummayad and abbasid rule of arabs...same goes for niazis and other punjabi pathan/pushtoon families i mentioned....u are claiming something which is reinforcing my point...i agree there are local native indian bloddlines like muslim gujjars, muslim rajputs, and muslim jatts and araees and they are signifcant in number but to ur dissapointment for u they are not in majority.

 

[TrMhMt]

Turkey and Azerbaijan are not Turkistan. Turkistan are Central Asian Turkic countries.

Sorry but Turkistan is all countries which belong to Turks. So are you Turk or not? I know Azerbaijanis are Turks. So you are part of Turkistan bro.!!!

 

[paritosh]

Then why was Jinnah, president of the ML, called the ambassador of Hindu Muslim unity? Why did he initially support a united India only to give way later when it became clear that unity between Hindus and Muslims on an equal level was impossible?

Jinnah had differences not with the hindus of India but within the congress...he had differences with nehru...who was ambitious...
Gandhi had always played the middle path..
after independence too gandhi desired to settle in Pakistan...which delighted Jinnah...so saying that it was the hindus or the muslims who were responsible for the partition is ludicrous..
hindus...muslims and sikhs lived forever in places like lahore sialkot etc like neighbors...

 

[MadDog]

Sir u r perfectly right as we have examples of during the muslim rule of spain muslims, jews and christians coexisted...muslims even built a church for christians still present in Spain...great jewish scholar came forward and that age is still known as golden age of jews.

Same was in India under muslim rule there was peace...but once british took over...persian was replaced by english as official language...hindus were used to getting educated in Persian (a foriegn language for them) during muslim rule (rulers were of foriegn lineage)...and they didnt find it difficult to adjust under British govt education system by learning english (again a foreign language for them) as they had already lived under foriegners for around 800-1000 years....but muslims on the other hand saw this some thing against their pride as they were proud to have their language (persian) as offcial language and were not ready to learn and get educated in english as they had themselves remained rulers and were not mentaly accepting the reality that british had replaced them....thus a major hindu-muslim divide followed...this was one of the reason why so many differences occured between two nations under the british.

 

[Omar1984]

If Pakistan dont feel comfortable with india included in talks, I am certain Turkish brothers will side with Pakistan and exclude india.

Turkey always takes the side of Pakistan and Pakistanis are very grateful.


Thank You Turkey. We need to keep india away from Afghanistan talks.

Pakistan's interests only conflict from india's interests and india wants Pakistan to be isolated internationally but our Turkish brothers and our Chinese friends will never let india's dreams come true.

 

[Omar1984]

I think percentage of Punjabis in Pakistan is more than that of Pashtuns in Afghanistan. Punjabis share similar language food and ethnicity with Indian Punjabis as well. So by that logic India have more stake on Pakistan than Pakistani Pashtuns!

Pakistani Pashtuns even share the same religion as Afghan Pashtuns while we Punjabi Pakistanis are Muslims and you Indian Punjabis are Sikhs/Hindus and we Punjabis have killed each other the most during partition. You cant compare the Pashtuns of Pakistan and Afghanistan to Punjabis of Pakistan and india.


And today Pakistan has more Punjabis than india and Pakistan also has more Pashtuns than Afghanistan.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Why not divide Afghanistan into different ethnic parts per majority by ethnicity that way Pakistan will get its way and majority of region is Pashtun dominated? This theory is well accepted by Pakistan which believes in dividing countries by religion, ethnicity.

The only condition will be to let Baloch and Sindh areas also get their respective freedoms, per your own principles.

Afghanistan and its future is determined by will of Afghans......

way to delve into totally unrelated topic.


Turkiye o bizim en yakin, en sadik, en onemli kardesimizi. Bu kardesligi hic durmaz!

(a close, loyal and important brotherhood of ours; one that is long-lasting and will never end)