India could seek foreign help for light combat aircraft

[PAFAce]

I am sure you need to be enlightened with how much of a scale LCA is a "FOREIGNER" Design! be it the air frame, avionics, engine, radar, armament, AC design are infact 90-99% foreigener made.
LM, Boeing, Sukio, Mig, Dassualt, design their aircraft indeginously and they do not need help. Incase of LCA, yes it is a foreign AC. same with JF-17 which is a Chinese product.

You may be right about the LCA being foreign, but let me clear some things for you. Design and construction are two different things altogether. You can go out and buy batteries, microcontrollers, metal, plastic etc. from the shops and build your own robot. It will be your design, even though you didn't make any of the parts yourself. That is what is meant by indigenous design.

Secondly, Lockheed, Boeing, Sukhoi, MiG, Dassault etc. do not make aircrafts from scratch and completely on their own. They may design it indigenously, but even that is true only if the technology is really new (ex. F-35). If you saw one of ACM Ahmed's interview, he stated that nobody builds aircrafts all on their own anymore. That is not how engineers work. Engineers and inventors are different. An inventor always wants to build new things. An engineer will avoid making something new unless he absolutely has to.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

You may be right about the LCA being foreign, but let me clear some things for you. Design and construction are two different things altogether. You can go out and buy batteries, microcontrollers, metal, plastic etc. from the shops and build your own robot. It will be your design, even though you didn't make any of the parts yourself. That is what is meant by indigenous design.

No, let me tell you. If i go to hobby shops and buy Servos, & reciver from one shop batteries from other the engine from other and finally the air frame from other, i so do not have the right to call it my "design" because all what i will be doing is "compiling" it and this is what India is doing with its LCA and so is pretty much Pakistan with its JF-17. both "india" and "pakistan" are fooling each other for even calling this a "indigenous" product.
only then do we have the right to call indigenous product when our own home grown companies design and develop every thing or at least 90% of the product on their own.

Secondly, do not make aircrafts from scratch and completely on their own. They may design it indigenously, but even that is true only if the technology is really new (ex. F-35). If you saw one of ACM Ahmed's interview, he stated that nobody builds aircrafts all on their own anymore. That is not how engineers work. Engineers and inventors are different. An inventor always wants to build new things. An engineer will avoid making something new unless he absolutely has to.

Yes Lockheed, Boeing, Sukhoi, MiG, Dassault etc are making their aircrafts from scratch even designing entirely on their own. but i did not get what you are trying to say please can u elaborate?

 

[PAFAce]

No, let me tell you. If i go to hobby shops and buy Servos, & reciver from one shop batteries from other the engine from other and finally the air frame from other, i so do not have the right to call it my "design" because all what i will be doing is "compiling" it and this is what India is doing with its LCA and so is pretty much Pakistan with its JF-17. both "india" and "pakistan" are fooling each other for even calling this a "indigenous" product.
only then do we have the right to call indigenous product when our own home grown companies design and develop every thing or at least 90% of the product on their own.

The company I worked for last summer, the Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd., is the company that designed the CANDU nuclear power plant which was later built by General Electric in Karachi. That company is nothing more than a consulting company, because they do not make anything on their own. They merely design the power plant (or, according to you, compile). By your argument, they cannot call it their design. I hate to break it to you, but the international community recognises CANDU reactors as AECLs design. I really cannot understand why you are having trouble understanding this simple concept.

Yes Lockheed, Boeing, Sukhoi, MiG, Dassault etc are making their aircrafts from scratch even designing entirely on their own.

The F-22 was a joint project between LM and Boeing. The F-35 was designed mostly by LM, but other companies were involved in the design, including Canadian companies. Same with F-16, F-18 etc. This does not mean that every component used in the plane was made by LM or Boeing. I will say this one last time, no company ever creates something as complex as a modern jet fighter all on their own, even if they have the capability.

Last year, i worked on the design of a web server (in C++ implemented on a Linux machine) with a team of 3 other students. We spent hours and hours working on it. However, by your argument, the server wasn't really designed by us but by the inventor of the C++ programming language or the Linux operating system.

I am not going to argue this with you anymore. You are entitled to your opinion. I feel that we have derailed the thread. I apologise for that.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

The company I worked for last summer, the Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd., is the company that designed the CANDU nuclear power plant which was later built by General Electric in Karachi. That company is nothing more than a consulting company, because they do not make anything on their own. They merely design the power plant (or, according to you, compile). By your argument, they cannot call it their design. I hate to break it to you, but the international community recognises CANDU reactors as AECLs design. I really cannot understand why you are having trouble understanding this simple concept.

Okay good for you and , but it still does not help the case that LCA is not still a foreigner product as claimed by you i suppose. You tell me why LCA is not a foreigner product and please dont bring another example which is not even related to this subject. and oh no need to flair up.

 

[must7]

Quote:
The company I worked for last summer, the Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd., is the company that designed the CANDU nuclear power plant which was later built by General Electric in Karachi. That company is nothing more than a consulting company, because they do not make anything on their own. They merely design the power plant (or, according to you, compile). By your argument, they cannot call it their design. I hate to break it to you, but the international community recognises CANDU reactors as AECLs design. I really cannot understand why you are having trouble understanding this simple concept.

Even for the design of LCA .. ADA relief heavily on British & French input. Hence to start with LCA was never an Indian product on the first place !

 

[acer]

Okay good for you and , but it still does not help the case that LCA is not still a foreigner product as claimed by you i suppose. You tell me why LCA is not a foreigner product and please dont bring another example which is not even related to this subject. and oh no need to flair up.

Here is some facts brother You are arguing that 90% is foriegn made care grab knowledge ..Invest little time you will cleared with all confusion

Airframe- Indian
Engine - US
FBW- Indian
Processing unit+Cockpit avoinics- Indian
HUD- Indian
Radar- Production aircraft - Indian(may change)
Weapon-Astra- Indian

I dont think Indian contribution is mere 10%

 

[PAFAce]

Okay good for you and , but it still does not help the case that LCA is not still a foreigner product as claimed by you i suppose. You tell me why LCA is not a foreigner product and please dont bring another example which is not even related to this subject. and oh no need to flair up.

I was using an example to penetrate something quite thick. I thought maybe I could argue intelligently, but it obviously isn't working, so I will stop here.

 

[macintosh]

Yes Lockheed, Boeing, Sukhoi, MiG, Dassault etc are making their aircrafts from scratch even designing entirely on their own. but i did not get what you are trying to say please can u elaborate?

No Lockheed, Boeing, Sukhoi, MiG, Dassault etc are not making their aircrafts from scratch, but from technology they have gained by designing AC over decades.For ex. F-22 raptor stealth technology was gained through F-117 Nighthawk ,which is designed for stealth only and is incapable in a dog fight, and thrust vectoring through X-31 Vector.So the technologies were developed over time for different needs and in the end they have to make a balance of these in a single Aircraft.On the other hand LCA was to be designed from scratch as the only other aircraft developed indigenously by India is 2nd generation marut.And that too with restriction imposed after nuclear test.All in all ADA has done a commendable job in designing an aircraft from scratch even if it has some foreign components.As far as engine is concerned China even while developing AC from such a long time is unable to design a new engine on it's own so Kaveri delay is understandable.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Here is some facts brother You are arguing that 90% is foriegn made care grab knowledge ..Invest little time you will cleared with all confusion

Airframe- Indian
Engine - US
FBW- Indian
Processing unit+Cockpit avoinics- Indian
HUD- Indian
Radar- Production aircraft - Indian(may change)
Weapon-Astra- Indian

I dont think Indian contribution is mere 10%

wait, you for got to add
stealth- indian
super cruise- indian
Raptor killer mod- indian

you pathological delusional state of denial indians need some reality check!

Air frame- designed by Dassualt and wings are imported from italy
Engine. First 80 LCA will have a forigener engine and even Kavir itself will be a foreigner made with little indian input.
Radar and avionics- Supported by IAI Isreal
Armament- French, american, isreali, russian and Aster is not yet operational and its pretty much of a developemnt of russian missile
Only 30 per cent of the airframe is Indian, the fly-by-wire control, avionics and engine are not ours, said Air Chief Marshal A Y Tipnis

 

[macintosh]

wait, you for got to add


Only 30 per cent of the airframe is Indian, the fly-by-wire control, avionics and engine are not ours, said Air Chief Marshal A Y Tipnis

Again a quote from a 2001 article.Has anything changed in Pak in last 8 years or not?. If change then stop quoting from 8 year old article, Will you???.

 

[iceman2009]

LCA is being built in india by an indian company called DRDO & HAL.

Yes it has had foreign assistance in all areas.

Yes the first 120+ fighters will have a USA engine & israeli radar.

" DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT"

it was designed & tested by indians IN INDIA..

NOT IN CHINA by chengdu...

I am delighted that it will come with American/israeli tech.. IT WILL MAKE THE TEJAS even more reliable and tech savvy..

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Again a quote from a 2001 article.Has anything changed in Pak in last 8 years or not?. If change then stop quoting from 8 year old article, Will you???.

why are you denying your Air chief words?! tell us what he said wrong that does not satisfy your ego?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

it was designed & tested by indians IN INDIA..

i guess you missed the head lines. India does not have qualified test pilots.

 

[iceman2009]

LCA LSP7 being readied in Bangalore

Broadsword: The King is dead.... long live the King!

YES I THINK ITS INDIAN

 

[macintosh]

why are you denying your Air chief words?! tell us what he said wrong that does not satisfy your ego?

First of all tell me has anything change in last 8 years in Pak or not ????
What he said in 2001 is irreleveant today as India has changed in last 8 years drastically and progressed and so has the LCA.Quote a recent article if you wanna argue on your point.