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India could emerge as Pakistan's nemesis in Afghan-Pak Kabul River Dispute

For once try doing something without depending upon China..

China to Back Pakistan against NATO
CHina to give Pakistan J 11B
China to give Pakistan stealth Plane
China to make industrial towns in Pakistan
China to block India's rivers
China to ........

And these are statements from Pakistani members..

grow up and be a little more self confident

These guys remind me of kind who boast about their relatives, mere chacha ke pass car hai. Talk about yourself for change.

Pakistan has so much potential but their people are more fight driven then business driven.
 
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Pakistan is wasting 35% water of Indus and other river and they accuse others of stealing water instead of managing their own mistakes. Water war, it sounds mostly like Cinderella's story.
 
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These guys remind me of kind who boast about their relatives, mere chacha ke pass car hai. Talk about yourself for change.

Pakistan has so much potential but their people are more fight driven then business driven.

they remind me more of people who loudly claim "you don't know who my father is " or the best line "don't you know who i am ?" :lol:
some times i feel like asking do you even know what and who you are?:rofl:

the only way for Pakistan ahead is to drop their current leadership . they need some one with a sane head good diplomatic skills and a good economic policy . (not to let their army interfere in all aspects of their lives.) concentrate on education and trade.

correct me if i mm wrong but aren't elections due next year in Pakistan?
 
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Can the thread starter tell me why using water resources in our own country amounts to stealing, if there is no international obligation to share it?

About fighting war, I think you have fought enough of them with India to know the response. But then it has been some years now, so can try again.
Look at India's geography and population before threatening with nuclear holocaust.
 
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no one is our nemesis we are at our guards , specially against India , nukes are in place just one click.

we expect India to solve issues peacefully or :sniper: they will be solved other way:azn:.

nuke will be self destructive decision for pakistan..
 
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try this and see how much damage China can do to India if there was a water war

Google

---------- Post added at 09:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 PM ----------

Water Wars: China's New 'Political Weapon'?
By DENIS D. GRAY 04/16/11 10:44 AM ET
BAHIR JONAI, India -- The wall of water raced through narrow Himalayan gorges in northeast India, gathering speed as it raked the banks of towering trees and boulders. When the torrent struck their island in the Brahmaputra river, the villagers remember, it took only moments to obliterate their houses, possessions and livestock.

No one knows exactly how the disaster happened, but everyone knows whom to blame: neighboring China.

"We don't trust the Chinese," says fisherman Akshay Sarkar at the resettlement site where he has lived since the 2000 flood. "They gave us no warning. They may do it again."

About 800 kilometers (500 miles) east, in northern Thailand, Chamlong Saengphet stands in the Mekong river, in water that comes only up to her shins. She is collecting edible river weeds from dwindling beds. A neighbor has hung up his fishing nets, his catches now too meager.

Using words bordering on curses, they point upstream, toward China.

The blame game, voiced in vulnerable river towns and Asian capitals from Pakistan to Vietnam, is rooted in fear that China's accelerating program of damming every major river flowing from the Tibetan plateau will trigger natural disasters, degrade fragile ecologies, divert vital water supplies.

A few analysts and environmental advocates even speak of water as a future trigger for war or diplomatic strong-arming, though others strongly doubt it will come to that. Still, the remapping of the water flow in the world's most heavily populated and thirstiest region is happening on a gigantic scale, with potentially strategic implications.

On the eight great Tibetan rivers alone, almost 20 dams have been built or are under construction while some 40 more are planned or proposed.

China is hardly alone in disrupting the region's water flows. Others are doing it with potentially even worse consequences. But China's vast thirst for power and water, its control over the sources of the rivers and its ever-growing political clout make it a singular target of criticism and suspicion.

"Whether China intends to use water as a political weapon or not, it is acquiring the capability to turn off the tap if it wants to – a leverage it can use to keep any riparian neighbors on good behavior," says Brahma Chellaney, an analyst at New Delhi's Center for Policy Research and author of the forthcoming "Water: Asia's New Battlefield."

Analyst Neil Padukone calls it "the biggest potential point of contention between the two Asian giants," China and India. But the stakes may be even higher since those eight Tibetan rivers serve a vast west-east arc of 1.8 billion people stretching from Pakistan to Vietnam's Mekong river delta.

Suspicions are heightened by Beijing's lack of transparency and refusal to share most hydrological and other data. Only China, along with Turkey, has refused to sign a key 1997 U.N. convention on transnational rivers.

Beijing gave no notice when it began building three dams on the Mekong – the first completed in 1993 – or the $1.2 billion Zangmu dam, the first on the mainstream of the 2,880-kilometer (1,790-mile) Brahmaputra which was started last November and hailed in official media as "a landmark priority project."

The 2000 flood that hit Sarkar's village, is widely believed to have been caused by the burst of an earthen dam wall on a Brahmaputra tributary. But China has kept silent.

"Until today, the Indian government has no clue about what happened," says Ravindranath, who heads the Rural Volunteer Center. He uses only one name.

Tibet's spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, has also warned of looming dangers stemming from the Tibetan plateau.

"It's something very, very essential. So, since millions of Indians use water coming from the Himalayan glaciers... I think you (India) should express more serious concern. This is nothing to do with politics, just everybody's interests, including Chinese people," he said in New Delhi last month.

Beijing normally counters such censure by pointing out that the bulk of water from the Tibetan rivers springs from downstream tributaries, with only 13-16 percent originating in China.

Officials also say that the dams can benefit their neighbors, easing droughts and floods by regulating flow, and that hydroelectric power reduces China's carbon footprint.

China "will fully consider impacts to downstream countries," Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu recently told The Associated Press. "We have clarified several times that the dam being built on the Brahmaputra River has a small storage capacity. It will not have large impact on water flow or the ecological environment of downstream."

For some of China's neighbors, the problem is that they too are building controversial dams and may look hypocritical if they criticize China too loudly.

The four-nation Mekong River Commission has expressed concerns not just about the Chinese dams but about a host of others built or planned in downstream countries.

In northeast India, a broad-based movement is fighting central government plans to erect more than 160 dams in the region, and Laos and Cambodia have proposed plans for 11 Mekong dams, sparking environmental protest.

Indian and other governments play down any threats from the Asian colossus. "I was reassured that (the Zangmu dam) was not a project designed to divert water and affect the welfare and availability of water to countries in the lower reaches," India's Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao said after talks with her Chinese counterpart late last year.

But at the grass roots, and among activists and even some government technocrats, criticism is expressed more readily.

"Everyone knows what China is doing, but won't talk about it. China has real power now. If it says something, everyone follows," says Somkiat Khuengchiangsa, a Thai environmental advocate.

Neither the Indian nor Chinese government responded to specific questions from the AP about the dams, but Beijing is signaling that it will relaunch mega-projects after a break of several years in efforts to meet skyrocketing demands for energy and water, reduce dependence on coal and lift some 300 million people out of poverty.

Official media recently said China was poised to put up dams on the still pristine Nu River, known as the Salween downstream. Seven years ago as many as 13 dams were set to go up until Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao ordered a moratorium.

That ban is regarded as the first and perhaps biggest victory of China's nascent green movement.

"An improper exploitation of water resources by countries on the upper reaches is going to bring about environmental, social and geological risks," Yu Xiaogang, director of the Yunnan Green Watershed, told The Associated Press. "Countries along the rivers have already formed their own way of using water resources. Water shortages could easily ignite extreme nationalist sentiment and escalate into a regional war."

But there is little chance the activists will prevail.

"There is no alternative to dams in sight in China," says Ed Grumbine, an American author on Chinese dams. Grumbine, currently with the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Yunnan province, notes that under its last five-year state plan, China failed to meet its hydroelectric targets and is now playing catch-up in its 2011-2015 plan as it strives to derive 15 percent of energy needs from non-fossil sources, mainly hydroelectric and nuclear.

The arithmetic pointing to more dam-building is clear: China would need 140 gigawatts of extra hydroelectric power to meet its goal. Even if all the dams on the Nu go up, they would provide only 21 gigawatts.

The demand for water region-wide will also escalate, sparking perhaps that greatest anxieties – that China will divert large quantities from the Tibetan plateau for domestic use.

Noting that Himalayan glaciers which feed the rivers are melting due to global warming, India's Strategic Foresight Group last year estimated that in the coming 20 years India, China, Nepal and Bangladesh will face a depletion of almost 275 billion cubic meters (360 billion cubic yards) of annual renewable water.

Padukone expects China will have to divert water from Tibet to its dry eastern provinces. One plan for rerouting the Brahmaputra was outlined in an officially sanctioned 2005 book by a Chinese former army officer, Li Ling. Its title: "Tibet's Waters Will Save China,"

Analyst Chellaney believes "the issue is not whether China will reroute the Brahmaputra, but when." He cites Chinese researchers and officials as saying that after 2014 work will begin on tapping rivers flowing from the Tibetan plateau to neighboring countries Such a move, he says, would be tantamount to a declaration of war on India.

Others are skeptical. Tashi Tsering, a Tibetan environmentalist at the University of British Columbia who is otherwise critical of China's policies, calls a Brahmaputra diversion "a pipe dream of some Chinese planners."

Grumbine shares the skepticism. "The situation would have to be very dire for China to turn off the taps because the consequences would be huge," he said. "China would alienate every one of its neighbors and historically the Chinese have been very sensitive about maintaining secure borders."

Whatever else may happen, riverside inhabitants along the Mekong and Brahmaputra say the future shock is now.

A fisherman from his youth, Boonrian Chinnarat says the Mekong giant catfish, the world's largest freshwater fish, has all but vanished from the vicinity of Thailand's Had Krai village, other once bountiful species have been depleted, and he and fellow fishermen have sold their nets. He blames the Chinese dams.

Phumee Boontom, headman of nearby Pak Ing village, warns that "If the Chinese keep the water and continue to build more dams, life along the Mekong will change forever." Already, he says, he has seen drastic variations in water levels following dam constructions, "like the tides of the ocean — low and high in one day."

Jeremy Bird, who heads the Mekong commission, an intergovernmental body of Laos, Cambodia, Thailand and Laos, sees a tendency to blame China for water-related troubles even when they are purely the result of nature. He says diplomacy is needed, and believes "engagement with China is improving."

Grumbine agrees. "Given the enormous demand for water in China, India and Southeast Asia, if you maintain the attitude of sovereign state, we are lost," he says. "Scarcity in a zero sum situation can lead to conflict but it can also goad countries into more cooperative behavior. It's a bleak picture, but I'm not without hope."
 
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There is an old expression" what goes around comes around"

Most of Indian water originates in CHINA.

We highly encourage our Chinese Friends to block Indian water by building dams.

You seriously need geography lessons. Most of our waters :blink:? Only a part of our waters come from Chinese side and other than Brahmaputra that does more damage than good, most of it is from our own mountains in our Himalayan terrain. The ONLY country that would dry and die of thirst would be your beloved Bangladesh. It would hardly have any effect on us.

As for Afghanistan Government, I have only three words.

LAND LOCKED COUNTRY.

AND

i dont think afghanistan will play any dirty, if they block water, they we will block the wheat and half of afghanis will not find food, this game is just in our pocket

Really? Afghanistan has much better relationship with Iranians who have ample ports and water space. You forget that when it comes to Afghanistan, both Iran and we are on the same page. You offer no specific benefit to Afghans here that you can monopolize on. If you block their access, we can ship finished products to Chahbahar, a transit tax that is paid to you, will be given to Iran instead.

Besides, you're not the only one who produces massive food. Both we and Iran produce much more of what Afghanistan can trade with us instead.

Benefits?

- Afghanistan is not blackmailed.
- We forge our presence in steel.
- Iran gets additional revenues and strengthens its regional influence in western Afghanistan.
- No need to worry about you lot creating trouble.

Before they do anything to hurt Pakistani interests, they maybe reminded of the consequences of screwing with Pakistan.

Hardly any effect unless it is military in nature which I am sure it won't be.
 
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try this and see how much damage China can do to India if there was a water war

Google

---------- Post added at 09:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 PM ----------

Water Wars: China's New 'Political Weapon'?
By DENIS D. GRAY 04/16/11 10:44 AM ET

this is the different btw india and china
we should follow your policy against pakistan
 
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try this and see how much damage China can do to India if there was a water war

This is an issue that doesn't involve you in the picture at all. You still want to meddle? Damage of this level is considered equivalent to nuclear war so make a decision about it.

This is not your battle. It is someone else's. Meddling will only give you trouble for no reason.

---------- Post added at 07:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:05 PM ----------

no one is our nemesis we are at our guards , specially against India , nukes are in place just one click.

we expect India to solve issues peacefully or :sniper: they will be solved other way:azn:.

You can only stand guard here. That's why.
 
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China's Murky Hydropolitics
Ties and Troubled Waters

China's hydro-engineering projects in Tibet indicate it is fashioning water as a card against India

New evidence from China indicates that, as part of its planned diversion of the waters of the Brahmaputra, preparations are afoot to start work on the world’s biggest dam at the river’s so-called Great Bend, located at Tibet’s corner with northeastern India. The dam, by impounding water on a gargantuan scale, will generate, according to a latest map of planned dams put up on its Web site by the state-run Hydro China, 38,000 megawatts of power, or more than twice the capacity of the Three Gorges Dam. Such is its scale that this new dam will by itself produce the equivalent of 25 percent of India’s current electricity generation from all sources.

Water is becoming a key security issue in Sino-Indian relations and a potential source of enduring discord. China and India already are water-stressed economies. The spread of irrigated farming and water-intensive industries, together with the demands of a rising middle class, have led to a severe struggle for more water. Indeed, both countries have entered an era of perennial water scarcity, which before long is likely to equal, in terms of per capita availability, the water shortages found in the Middle East.

Rapid economic growth could slow in the face of acute scarcity if demand for water continues to grow at its current frantic pace, turning China and India — both food-sufficient countries by and large — into major importers, a development that would accentuate the global food crisis. Even though India has more arable land than China — 160.5 million hectares compared to 137.1 million hectares — the source of most major Indian rivers is Chinese-controlled Tibet. The Tibetan plateau’s vast glaciers, huge underground springs and high altitude make Tibet the world’s largest freshwater repository. Indeed, all of Asia’s major rivers, except the Ganges, originate in the Chinese-held Tibetan plateau. Even the Ganges’ main tributaries flow in from Tibet.
But China is now pursuing major inter-basin and inter-river water transfer projects on the Tibetan plateau, which threaten to diminish international-river flows into India and other co-riparian states.
China’s opaquely pursued hydro-engineering projects in Tibet threaten the interests of India more than those of any other country. The greatest impact of the diversion of the Brahmaputra waters, however, would probably be borne by Bangladesh. The Brahmaputra is Bangladesh’s most-important river, and the Chinese diversion would mean environmental devastation of large parts of Bangladesh. In fact, China is presently pursuing a separate cascade of major dams on the Mekong, the Salween, the Brahmaputra and the Irtysh-Illy, pitting it in water disputes with most of its riparian neighbours — from Kazakhstan and Russia to India and the countries of Indochina Peninsula.

In March 2009, the chairman of the Tibetan regional government unveiled plans for major new dams on the Brahmaputra. A series of six big dams will come up in the upper-middle reaches of the Brahmaputra, to the southeast of Lhasa, with construction of the first — Zangmu — beginning in 2009 itself. As part of this cascade, four other new dams will come up downstream from Zangmu at Jiacha, Lengda, Zhongda and Langzhen. The sixth, at Jiexu, is upstream to Zangmu. This cascade is in addition to the more than a dozen smaller dams China already has built on the Brahmaputra and its tributaries, including at Yamdrok Tso, Pangduo, Nyingtri-Payi and Drikong.

The most ominous plan China is pursuing is the one to reroute a sizable chunk of the Brahmaputra waters northwards at the Great Bend, the point where the river makes a sharp turn to enter India, creating in the process a canyon larger and deeper than the Grand Canyon in the US. The rapid infrastructure work in this area is clearly geared at such water diversion and hydropower generation. In fact, a new Chinese State Grid map showing that the Great Bend area will soon be connected to the rest of China’s power supply is a pointer to the impending launch of work on the mammoth dam there — a scheme recently supported by leaders of China’s state-run hydropower industry, including Zhang Boting, the deputy general secretary of the Chinese Society for Hydropower Engineering.

Through its giant projects in Tibet, China is actually set to acquire the capability to fashion water as a political weapon against India. Such a weapon can be put to overt use in war or employed subtly in peacetime so that the level of cross-border water flows becomes a function of political concession.

With China determined to exploit its riparian dominance, New Delhi’s self-injurious acceptance of Tibet as part of China is becoming more apparent. Just as India has retreated to an increasingly defensive position territorially, with the spotlight on China’s Tibet-linked claim to Arunachal Pradesh than on Tibet’s status itself, New Delhi’s policy straitjacket precludes an Indian diplomatic campaign against Beijing’s dam-building projects. Accepting Tibet and the developments there as China’s “internal” affairs has proven a huge misstep that will continue to exact increasing costs. A bold, forward-looking leadership, though, can rectify any past mistake before it becomes too late.
Source
 
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but if India threatens its neighbors water wars,I think everyone can play this game.
 
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india is not stealing water,its just stopping its wastage
pakistan should also try the same instead of wasting the water and crying that india is building dams for water war :disagree:
the thing china is doing is on a different scale,it is diverting and not stopping water so it will affect india but it will also have a devastating effect on bangladesh,not to mention the loss of wildlife(tigers,rhinos) and forests in north east
 
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We havent done that yet,so please dont give us any reason to do so.
 
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there is no such thing as wasting water.
the water that goes into the ocean feeds the ocean ecosystem that lets fish flourish and we can catch those fish.
if you don't let the water go to the ocean, the nutrients that the water carries never get to the ocean and that means fish have no food and we lose our fish.

So please stop with this medieval mentality that the only benefits of natural resources is what immediately benefits humans right now, and think of the whole ecosystem.
 
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there is no such thing as wasting water.
the water that goes into the ocean feeds the ocean ecosystem that lets fish flourish and we can catch those fish.
if you don't let the water go to the ocean, the nutrients that the water carries never get to the ocean and that means fish have no food and we lose our fish.

So please stop with this medieval mentality that the only benefits of natural resources is what immediately benefits humans right now, and think of the whole ecosystem.

dams are not like your home taps,rivers from glaciers are in a constant supply of water unlike seasonal rivers so when the dams get filled they overflow so there is always enough water that reaches the sea,i am saying just save water which will be enough for your countries consumption instead of ranting against india
 
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