India Considers Buying 126 Eurofighters From Germany

[he-man]

I think Pakistan will protest China if we sell you guys J10b. To be honest, J10B is really worth the price it tags. With the price you pay dassault, you can go for F35. Some times you don't know how much envy i've got for India about the easy access to western technology, we are totally isolated.

they will stop the tech to india too when we cross 5-6 trillion$ in economy,thats how west works

 

[IND151]

The problems are plenty

1)Its not as capable as rafale........indian evaluation and swiss evaluation reports clearly state that
2)Still no working aesa,,,,god knows when captor aesa will hit the production
3)Air to ground role limited relative to rafale and we need multi role aircraft and not a sole air superiority one
4)Its controlled by 4 nations and with uk being one of them there is always a risk of future sanctions due to its relationship with usa.

As we all know uk is just a pet poodle of usa nowadays,,,sad really

On other hand

AESA Radar- The Future Of Air Defence
The RAFALE AESA radar is the most advanced fighter radar in its category.

The AESA (active electronically scanned array) brings superior detection and tracking range, electronic scanning agility and the ability to track targets in or out of the search domain, and very high resolution ground mapping with synthetic aperture radar (SAR) modes.

The RAFALE AESA radar also allows very low altitude flying above uncharted terrain in autopilot-coupled modes in blind conditions.

Electronically scanned array radars which are designed to track all groups of targets, can “track while search” (tracking is performed at an optimised update rate and even outside of the search volume), when mechanically scanned array radars can only track some targets inside the search volume and update them at the scanning rate.

The RAFALE is the first operational - and so far, the only - European combat Aircraft to use an electronic scanning radar. Developed by THALES, the RBE2 radar has benefited from a massive research effort and from THALES’ unmatched know-how based on past experience. Compared to radars with conventional antennas, unprecedented levels of situational awareness are attained with earlier detection and tracking of multiple targets.

With its superior beam agility and its enormous computing power, the RBE2 offers outstanding performance that cannot be replicated by mechanical scanning radars.

With the advent of “Tranche 4”, Aircraft which are due to enter service from 2013, the RAFALE fighters will be fitted with an “Active Electronically Scanned Array” (AESA) RBE2 radar which will provide a wide range of functions:

• All-aspect look-up and look-down detection and tracking of multiple air targets for close combat and long-range interception, in all weather and in jammed environment,
• Ability to track targets in, or out of, the search domain, bringing the ultimate advantage in air combat,
• Real time generation of three-dimensional maps for terrain-following above uncharted terrain in blind conditions. The RAFALE is the sole combat Aircraft to currently propose such a function,
• Real time generation of high resolution 2D ground maps for navigation updates and detection, identification and designation of ground targets,
• Detection and tracking of multiple naval targets.

The RBE2-AESA is fully compatible in terms of detection range with the upcoming long range METEOR air-to-air missile.

Its controlled by 4 nations and with uk being one of them there is always a risk of future sanctions due to its relationship with usa.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/india-considers-buying-126-eurofighters-from-germany.333068/#ixzz3Cnft8qLn

Spanish Legislation is murky and can be a trouble too.

 

[he-man]

There is nothing wrong about what I said. The IAF deemed both as compliant. As for pressure, they booted the US entry out, no one will argue that Europeans have more pull than the US. If a fully functional AESA was deemed standard at the time initial offer,, only the Americans would have qualified. The IAF parameters are for the aircraft being delivered.

Btw, the news report earlier (not this one) was explicit. The German ambassador asked the NDA government whether they would be interested in a relook if the EF consortium came up with a better offer. The offer was made after GoI told them they could.

Man u are being uber stubborn here.
EF is simply behind rafale in avionics and especially sensor fusion,,,this is not even a debatable issue to anyone.

Americans did not qualify as f-18 and f-16 in are not good enough vs rafale,,,as simple as that.
Plus there was a risk of sanctions too.

But aesa is an absolute necessity................have no doubt about that

On other hand

AESA Radar- The Future Of Air Defence
The RAFALE AESA radar is the most advanced fighter radar in its category.

The AESA (active electronically scanned array) brings superior detection and tracking range, electronic scanning agility and the ability to track targets in or out of the search domain, and very high resolution ground mapping with synthetic aperture radar (SAR) modes.

The RAFALE AESA radar also allows very low altitude flying above uncharted terrain in autopilot-coupled modes in blind conditions.

Electronically scanned array radars which are designed to track all groups of targets, can “track while search” (tracking is performed at an optimised update rate and even outside of the search volume), when mechanically scanned array radars can only track some targets inside the search volume and update them at the scanning rate.

The RAFALE is the first operational - and so far, the only - European combat Aircraft to use an electronic scanning radar. Developed by THALES, the RBE2 radar has benefited from a massive research effort and from THALES’ unmatched know-how based on past experience. Compared to radars with conventional antennas, unprecedented levels of situational awareness are attained with earlier detection and tracking of multiple targets.

With its superior beam agility and its enormous computing power, the RBE2 offers outstanding performance that cannot be replicated by mechanical scanning radars.

With the advent of “Tranche 4”, Aircraft which are due to enter service from 2013, the RAFALE fighters will be fitted with an “Active Electronically Scanned Array” (AESA) RBE2 radar which will provide a wide range of functions:

• All-aspect look-up and look-down detection and tracking of multiple air targets for close combat and long-range interception, in all weather and in jammed environment,
• Ability to track targets in, or out of, the search domain, bringing the ultimate advantage in air combat,
• Real time generation of three-dimensional maps for terrain-following above uncharted terrain in blind conditions. The RAFALE is the sole combat Aircraft to currently propose such a function,
• Real time generation of high resolution 2D ground maps for navigation updates and detection, identification and designation of ground targets,
• Detection and tracking of multiple naval targets.

The RBE2-AESA is fully compatible in terms of detection range with the upcoming long range METEOR air-to-air missile.



Source: https://defence.pk/threads/india-considers-buying-126-eurofighters-from-germany.333068/#ixzz3Cnft8qLn

Spanish Legislation is murky and can be a trouble too.

It proves my point.

 

[C130]

Laughable statement.
Rafale is multirole...............Ef IS SIMPLY NOT.

That aside not having an aesa is deal breaker on the spot

brah I just told you they are adding more A2G with later tranches.
-Paveway
-JDAM
-Harpoon
-Taurus/Storm Shadow
-Brimestone
-Maverick
-Small Diameter Bomb
etc etc
if India did go for it which it's too late for that anyway more investment would go into the Typhoon for more weapons development and integration

 

[帅的一匹]

they will stop the tech to india too when we cross 5-6 trillion$ in economy,thats how west works

Have you ever imaged how west is gonna deal with India after China falls? We shall treat each other better instead of kicking each others' *** immediately.

 

[he-man]

brah I just told you they are adding more A2G with later tranches.
-Paveway
-JDAM
-Harpoon
-Taurus/Storm Shadow
-Brimestone
-Maverick
-Small Diameter Bomb
etc etc
if India did go which it's too late for that anyway more investment would go into the Typhoon for more weapons development and integration

Point is we want an established platform and don't want to wait in the future for upgrades.
And rafale as it stands today offers just that.

The money and time for development would go to pakfa and lca

Have you ever imaged how west is gonna deal with India after China falls? We shall treat each other better instead of kicking each others' *** immediately.

I agree....................border dispute must end.
Just use aksai chin/ladakh for solar energy projects or telescopes(joint) and end this stupidity.

I anyways prefer china over japan

 

[NKVD]

I think Pakistan will protest China if we sell you guys J10b. To be honest, J10B is really worth the price it tags. With the price you pay dassault, you can go for F35. Some times you don't know how much envy i've got for India about the easy access to western technology, we are totally isolated.

Sir it not cold war days anymore do you really think chinese will give 100 billion of trade opportunities for the sake of pleasing pakistan No they will not.thats why CCP offered us a trillion dollar investment and Silk route access. Diplomacy don't work like this anymore you can take example of sale Russian helos to Pakistan even it's raised concern in Indian establishment.

 

[C130]

Point is we want an established platform and don't want to wait in the future for upgrades.
And rafale as it stands today offers just that.

The money and time for development would go to pakfa and lca



I agree....................border dispute must end.
Just use aksai chin/ladakh for solar energy projects or telescopes(joint) and end this stupidity.

I anyways prefer china over japan

man it's whatever you need, but if you could save 10+billion sounds pretty enticing to me.

 

[Bang Galore]

Man u are being uber stubborn here.
EF is simply behind rafale in avionics and especially sensor fusion,,,this is not even a debatable issue to anyone.

Americans did not qualify as f-18 and f-16 in are not good enough vs rafale,,,as simple as that.
Plus there was a risk of sanctions too.

But aesa is an absolute necessity................have no doubt about that

You are the one being stubborn. I'm not arguing the merits of the EF vis-a-vis the Rafale. I'm arguing the technical point on procurement. The IAF deemed the EF as being compliant (along with Rafale) on all parameters that it wanted. That is why it made the short list. Subsequently, the Rafale was selected on price alone. You can argue till the cows come home that the Rafale is the better aircraft but that was not what is the IAF's stated opinion which clearly stated that both the aircrafts met requirements.

You would be better off reading up on the actual shortlisting procedure and then further selection.

P.S.: I have been a critic of the way the whole deal has been conducted & have never been a fan of the EF or Rafale because of the price factor. What is stated here is the factual position on the selection parameters.

 

[he-man]

You are the one being stubborn. I'm not arguing the merits of the EF vis-a-vis the Rafale. I'm arguing the technical point on procurement. The IAF deemed the EF as being compliant (along with Rafale) on all parameters that it wanted. That is why it made the short list. Subsequently, the Rafale was selected on price alone. You can argue till the cows come home that the Rafale is the better aircraft but that was not what is the IAF's stated opinion which clearly stated that both the aircrafts met requirements.

You would be better off reading up on the actual shortlisting procedure and then further selection.

P.S.: I have been a critic of the way the whole deal has been conducted & have never been a fan of the EF or Rafale because of the price factor. What is stated here is the factual position on the selection parameters.

U are just quoting procedural bullshit.
Do u think iaf is stupid to opt for an aircraft with no aesa and limited air to ground abilities,,,limited sensor fusion etc??

Nope,,,real world is diff buddy,all factors are considered in the end.

 

[Bang Galore]

"The Narendra Modi Government, INDIA TODAY has learnt, is studying the German proposal even as Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) has been nego-tiating with France's Dassault, the maker of the Rafale, to finalise agree-ments to produce the aircraft in India. The Rafale deal for 126 jets is esti-mated to cost 20 billion euros (Rs 1.6 lakh crore) over the next decade and is considered the biggest global de-fence tender.

Representatives of the German government met leaders of the BJP regime in June, within weeks of the latter coming to power, and the talks culminated in a new commercial pro-posal that seeks to undercut the French bid. The new German offer could bring down the total value of the contract by Rs 20,000 crore over its 10-year duration. The scale of the "discount"-formally offered in early July to Defence Minister Arun Jait-ley-was substantial enough to create ripples at the very top of the Govern-ment, with Prime Minister Narendra Modi also being apprised about the development, sources said.

One of the first indications that there could be room for a relook at the mega deal came, it is learnt, after German Ambassador to India Michael Steiner met top functionaries of the BJP Government shortly after it took over in June. After getting feelers that the new dispensation was keen to get an independent assessment of the contract value instead of going by the UPA government's agreement, Berlin is believed to have gathered the sup-port of Britain, Spain and Italy, major partners in the consortium, to be able to make a viable counter-offer. The new offer, significantly, rea-ched the Government in the first week of July, four days after French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius met Indian leaders in New Delhi and emphasised the importance Paris was giving the Rafale contract."

German-led European consortium comes up with a cheaper proposal for its Euro fighter Typhoon : DEFENCE - India Today

 

[he-man]

man it's whatever you need, but if you could save 10+billion sounds pretty enticing to me.

We are not saving 10 billion$.
There may be 1-2 billion$ difference at the most as real value of rafale contract will come only when deal is signed.

Rest all are speculations.

But yeah is there is a difference of more than 3 billion$ then **** the french

 

[Bang Galore]

U are just quoting procedural bullshit.
Do u think iaf is stupid to opt for an aircraft with no aesa and limited air to ground abilities,,,limited sensor fusion etc??

Nope,,,real world is diff buddy,all factors are considered in the end.

Well....according to you, the IAF was stupid enought to shortlist an aircraft that you think is useless. They must be very stupid then..........

 

[he-man]

"The Narendra Modi Government, INDIA TODAY has learnt, is studying the German proposal even as Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) has been nego-tiating with France's Dassault, the maker of the Rafale, to finalise agree-ments to produce the aircraft in India. The Rafale deal for 126 jets is esti-mated to cost 20 billion euros (Rs 1.6 lakh crore) over the next decade and is considered the biggest global de-fence tender.

Representatives of the German government met leaders of the BJP regime in June, within weeks of the latter coming to power, and the talks culminated in a new commercial pro-posal that seeks to undercut the French bid. The new German offer could bring down the total value of the contract by Rs 20,000 crore over its 10-year duration. The scale of the "discount"-formally offered in early July to Defence Minister Arun Jait-ley-was substantial enough to create ripples at the very top of the Govern-ment, with Prime Minister Narendra Modi also being apprised about the development, sources said.

One of the first indications that there could be room for a relook at the mega deal came, it is learnt, after German Ambassador to India Michael Steiner met top functionaries of the BJP Government shortly after it took over in June. After getting feelers that the new dispensation was keen to get an independent assessment of the contract value instead of going by the UPA government's agreement, Berlin is believed to have gathered the sup-port of Britain, Spain and Italy, major partners in the consortium, to be able to make a viable counter-offer. The new offer, significantly, rea-ched the Government in the first week of July, four days after French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius met Indian leaders in New Delhi and emphasised the importance Paris was giving the Rafale contract."

German-led European consortium comes up with a cheaper proposal for its Euro fighter Typhoon : DEFENCE - India Today

Tactics to reduce rafale cost.
But as i said if price diff is more than 2-3 billion then we can opt for EF................i concede that

Well....according to you, the IAF was stupid enought to shortlist an aircraft that you think is useless. They must be very stupid then..........

Nope just better than others which were evaluated,,,,still rafale is better than it.

No one disputes that,,,no one

 

[janon]

hahaha..poor bhartis.

We are so "poor" that we are celebrating the aquisition of 13 third hand jets from Jordan.

Oh wait, that's not us.