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India considering lease of second Russian nuclear submarine

It's still under development, right?

Let's assume, given DRDO's past record, it takes further 5 years to become fully inductable.

By that time, you'd have wasted 5 years of your 10 year lease.

...what's the use?

My point is, why can't we time our sub-procurement in such a manner that our subs are read just in time when we start receiving the relevant ICBM's from DRDO.

Why waste the lease period all the while spending money on it?
Leasing nuclear subs has a lot to do about research rather than instant deployment of nuclear triad .we need to learn how to operate modern subs and study them to gain r&d.As far the slbm project is concerned one has to go to step by step process one cannot develop an sub launched icbm directly.
 
well Indian navy is desperate to get its hand on more subs as quickly as possible , hence they will be more than interested in acquiring a second Akula II sub

The reason being that a Single Akula II can perform an operaion that would otherwise require 3 Kilo class or 2 Scorpene class
also 9 out of 14 SSK operated by IN are over 20 yrs old and will be retired between 2014-2022

Also at anyone time only 9 of 15 Subs are operational at anyone time , which is better than what it was in yr 2009 , but still not enough
thats coz 2 Kilo class and 1 U209 are undergoing MLU
and 2 Kilo class and 1 U209 are under routine mentainence at anyone time

if we do go ahead and induct a second Akula II in yr 2014 , then it might give some elbow room to IN and they could feel comfortable in retiring 1-2 non upgraded kilo class sub before induction of Scorpene class
 
damm this is turning scary now. ins arihant ready, 3 more under construction will be launched one after another from 2012 to 2016. and now another akula.

and Drdo is already working on nxt gen attack subs. this will cause massive panic not just in pak but australia, indonesia malaysia etc. no one wants to see india ocean going nuclear except india.
 
damm this is turning scary now. ins arihant ready, 3 more under construction will be launched one after another from 2012 to 2016. and now another akula.

1) Drdo is already working on nxt gen attack subs.
2)this will cause massive panic not just in pak but australia, indonesia malaysia etc. no one wants to see india ocean going nuclear except india.

1) Links for that?
2) Those countries would be more concerned about chinese subs than Indian ones. None of them have any beef with India.
 
why the MOD cannot take quick decisions on national security plans, i mean if they want to lease another sub great, do it as quickly as possible. The contract for this sub was signed in 2004 & we got it in 2012, god only knows if we go for another sub when we will get it???
 
Why waste the lease period all the while spending money on it?

First of all, this sub is an SSN and not an SSBN, which means it doesn't carry any balistic missiles. It carries torpedos or torpedo tube launched missiles like Club S. An SSN is a long range hunter sub marine, intended to find and destroy other subs, escort and protect a carrier or an SSBN.
The aim behind the lease is mainly training crews for the service on our indigenously build SSN and SSBNs, the combat role is just secondary here.
Ather advantages are of course learing how to build such subs and such nuclear propulsions. We still can build and miniaturise only smaller nuclear propulsions for smaller subs, that's why Arihant is relatively small and can carry less missiles. But future subs should be bigger and more powerful and operating the Akula will help us to improve our developments.
 
First of all, this sub is an SSN and not an SSBN, which means it doesn't carry any balistic missiles. It carries torpedos or torpedo tube launched missiles like Club S. An SSN is a long range hunter sub marine, intended to find and destroy other subs, escort and protect a carrier or an SSBN.
The aim behind the lease is mainly training crews for the service on our indigenously build SSN and SSBNs, the combat role is just secondary here.
Ather advantages are of course learing how to build such subs and such nuclear propulsions. We still can build and miniaturise only smaller nuclear propulsions for smaller subs, that's why Arihant is relatively small and can carry less missiles. But future subs should be bigger and more powerful and operating the Akula will help us to improve our developments.

akula can carry SLCM(Submarine Launched Cruise Missile)

"Whereas the Russian Navy's Akula-II could be equipped with 28 nuclear-capable cruise missiles with a striking range of 3,000 km (1,620 nmi; 1,864 mi), the Indian version was reportedly expected to be armed with the 300 km (162 nmi; 186 mi)-range 3M-54 Klub nuclear-capable missiles.."

Akula class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Leasing nuclear subs has a lot to do about research rather than instant deployment of nuclear triad .we need to learn how to operate modern subs and study them to gain r&d.As far the slbm project is concerned one has to go to step by step process one cannot develop an sub launched icbm directly.

Just adding, it is also to do with selecting and training a crew double or triple the size minimum required to operate these subs. Rotation occurs each resurfacing (60-100 days) or depending on the type of Submarine or navy policy. Also deployment on Submarines can vary in length for crew.
 
akula can carry SLCM(Submarine Launched Cruise Missile)

"Whereas the Russian Navy's Akula-II could be equipped with 28 nuclear-capable cruise missiles with a striking range of 3,000 km (1,620 nmi; 1,864 mi), the Indian version was reportedly expected to be armed with the 300 km (162 nmi; 186 mi)-range 3M-54 Klub nuclear-capable missiles.."

Akula class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's wrong info, because these SLCMs requires vertical launchers, otherwise the Akula would be able to carry Brahmos as well. They might confused it with it's successor, the Yasen (Graney) class submarine, which has vertical launchers and will have a mix of long range anti ship and cruise missiles. The Akula class can only use missiles that fits into the torpedo tubes:

SEVERODVINSK-CLASS%2B%255BPROJECT-885%2BYASEN-CLASS%255D.jpg


155661213.jpg
 
So It is the Irbis?

K-xxx 971I/09719 Iribis Akula I Improved Amur Shipyard 1994 Construction halted at 60% completion
 
check this out :----




'Akula'/'Akula-II' class nuclear powered attack submarines (10+6 ships)
(Project 971/971U, Shchuka-B)

Displacement: 10,700 (Akula-II: 12,390) tons submerged
Dimensions: 110.3 x 13.6 x 9.68 meters/361.9 x 44.6x 31.7 feet
(Akula-II: 114.3 meters/375 feet long)
Propulsion: Steam turbines, 1 OK-650B reactor, 1 shaft, 47,600 shp, 33 knots
Crew: 73 (Akula-II: 50)
Sonar: Skat-KS suite with MGK-500 Shark Gill LF active/passive, passive arrays, towed array
Armament: 4 25.6 inch torpedo tubes, 4 21 inch torpedo tubes (SAET-60M, Type 65-76, Type 53-65K torpedoes, RKP-55/SS-N-21 Granat/Sampson strategic cruise missiles, RPK-6/RPK-7/SS-N-16 Vodopod/Veter/Stallion ASROC); later units also: 6 21 inch external torpedo tubes, 1 Strela SAM position


World Navies Today: Russian Submarines


The SS-N-21 is reported to have a cruising speed of Mach 0.7 and a maximum range of 2,400 km
details of SS-N-21 :- MissileThreat :: SS-N-21
 
i am just wondering. ToT is good, but what about the infrastructure to produce at home.
 
India may take another n-sub on lease - Indian Express

India has expressed interest in leasing another nuclear attack submarine from Russia to supplement the Akula class hunter-killer that was inducted last year and the two sides are now ready to start negotiations on the project, the head of the top Russian design bureau for nuclear submarines has said.

Tentatively christened INS Chakra III, the new submarine will be a variant of the Akula class of stealthy nuclear-powered submarines that are capable of spending months under water but is likely to be equipped with more lethal weaponry, including a vertically launched Brahmos missile system.

If the project goes through, this would be the third Russian nuclear submarine to be operated by India. The first being the original INS Chakra that was taken on a three-year lease in 1988 and the second was inducted last year after a four-year delay. It too has been named the INS Chakra.

Vladimir Dorofeev, head of the Malachite Design Bureau, which is the main centre for nuclear attack submarines in Russia, has said that the negotiations that India and Russia did during the 2012 lease of the Chakra would help in a smooth process for the acquisition of the new submarine. He also told The Indian Express that India has expressed an interest in acquiring the submarine and both the Russian design bureau and the shipyard that will construct it are ready for negotiations.

The submarine is likely to be reconstructed round the hull of the Iribis, a Russian Akula class submarine that was never completed as funds ran dry after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Dorofeev said that the new submarine could also benefit from the design efforts that Russia had put in its latest class of Yasen nuclear-powered attack submarines.

"The fourth generation of Yasen class submarine has been tested successfully, including the firing of a cruise missile from the submerged vessel. We can use that experience for the second Indian submarine. The launch was done using a new vertical launch system that can be used for the next submarine," Dorofeev said.

The universal launch system that has been tested can launch several types of missiles from a submerged vessel and can carry 4-5 missiles per salvo. However, the design bureau head refused to go into details of the project, saying that technical requirements for the next submarine would be discussed after the India comes up with a set of technical requirements.

"If a political decision is taken then we as an industry should have no difficulty in delivering what is agreed to," he said, expressing confidence that the matter would be discussed in future talks between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

He, however, refused to comment on Russian assistance for the indigenous INS Arihant class of submarines that India is constructing in Vizag, saying that joint cooperation or technology sharing would depend on political negotiations between the two nations.

In April 2012, the Eastern Fleet that is tasked with patrolling some of the most sensitive waters around India, formally inducted the INS Chakra, a stealthy nuclear-powered submarine acquired from Russia on a 10-year lease.

The Akula II class submarine — renowned as one of the stealthiest in the world is an attack submarine — is nuclear-powered but does not carry nuclear missiles on board.

(This correspondent is in Russia on the invitation of the United Shipbuilding Corporation)
 
India is all set to acquire a second nuclear submarine on lease from Russia. The two sides have had preliminary discussions and a serious push is expected when Indian Defence Secretary RK Mathur meets his Russian counterparts during his visit to Moscow next week.

The idea had germinated in the Indian strategic establishment long before the Russian-built electric-powered submarine INS Sindhurakshak got sunk at its moorings in Mumbai naval dockyard on August 14.

Now with the Sindhurakshak practically gone forever and the Indian submarine fleet having been constricted to just 13 – of which only 7 or 8 can be operational at a given time – the Indian idea has acquired a greater steam. The loss of INS Sindhurakshak seems to have catalysed the Indian defence establishment to come up with ideas that would ensure that India’s undersea warfare capabilities are actually bolstered, and not dented.

Indian Defence Secretary RK Mathur is all set to lead an Indian tri-service delegation to Moscow for the next round of High Level Monitoring Group on Defence. Mathur will be reaching Russia on September 1 for these crucial talks and the issue of taking on lease a second Russian nuclear submarine for the Indian defence forces will be very high on his agenda.

Sources say the Indian defence secretary will be negotiating with his Russian counterparts on many other agendas but his foremost talking point would inevitably veer around the subject of India acquiring the nuclear submarine on lease as it would provide New Delhi an immediate solution to deal with maritime threats in the neighbourhood.

The Russians are positively inclined to the idea of leasing a second nuclear submarine to India, according to sources. Actually, if this idea were to translate into reality, it would be the third nuclear submarine that the Russia would be leasing to India.

The first time it was then Soviet Union which had leased a nuclear submarine (named INS Chakra by the Indian Navy) way back in 1988. The lease at that time was only for three years and the Indians duly returned the vessel after the lease expired.

The second time India got on lease a nuclear submarine from Russia was a couple of years ago when India and Russia finalised the contract for it in 2011 and the Russian Nerpa class submarine was inducted into the Indian Navy last year as INS Chakra. The lease cost a billion dollars to India for a period of ten years.

The third lease, if it transpires (which it should given the political will from both the sides), should also be for a minimum of ten years. However, the lease values may be a bone of contention for the two sides. While the Indians are willing to shell out a billion dollars for taking on lease another nuclear submarine for a period of ten years, the Russians have jacked up the monetary value.

Moreover, the Russians have already conveyed to their Indian interlocutors that India cannot hope to get a nuclear submarine on lease from any other country. From India’s point of view, though the Russian logic seems to be well in place but then other countries like France and the UK may be persuaded to lease a nuclear submarine given India’s standing in the comity of nations currently.

The Indian strategic establishment seems quite upbeat on the idea of acquiring another nuclear submarine. The Indians have even named their probably acquisition as INS Chakra III.

India all set to lease a second nuclear submarine from Russia | idrw.org
 

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