India closes in on $20 billion Rafale deal

[he-man]

Why not ...Things are so out of the world in Bollywood

sure they are,,,btw what was the last good movie u watched,just getting curious

 

[Indien]

1/3rd population is living in poverty and 20 billion dollar deal is in progress, kiya mazakh laga rakha hai just sign the ******* deal .............so that we can make way for j31 oh yeah let's see how your spectra performs under stealth 5th Gen tech............... Nailed it

our money, our decision. besides IAF has already invested $30 billion in Russian FGFA programme, anything russian is always better that cheap chinese junk, so u can STFU

 

[Dash]

The article is mainly based on unnamed sources, so should be taken with caution. The point however is, that a re-bid of vendors that were rejected is not possible, but that doesn't count for the EF, which still is in the competition, just not the prefered option for negotiations. So IF the government would want to re-evaluate, it would be based on the results of the shortlisting and the offers for Rafale and EF. The article itself doesn't rule the EF out just like that, but points out that it's more costly than the Rafale which is undeniable, but that also means it's still an option!

1) Rafale
2) EF
3) Indigenous (mid to long term) option

And as long there is no official statement of the government to any side, we don't know what the official stand is now. In fact, the budget didn't showed an increased of the IAF budget, while the share of DRDO was highly increased. If one is in favour for the 3rd option, one could say this increased support could be a hint too, but that is as much speculation as this article raises.

This government was always in favor of indigenous goods and thats what has reflected in the budget. Like @Abingdonboy said. ITs the paycheck that is talking and not the policy. As it is we and the MOD all know that squadron strength is depleting any re bid even to look at EF will be suicidal for the country.

 

[Storm Force]

Solkhan it's the Pakistanis that need handouts from USA to feed your 200 million people not India.

Your eating grass to maintain a few rusty old nukes .

Stick to topic mate don't troll

 

[Dash]

I'm sure he's laughing all the way to the bank thanks to SAAB and the EFT's consortium's pay checks.

Wild west!! and stupid east

 

[Scorpion666]

aur patha chala match katham hogaya....



I have no clue which scene you are talking about

the scene where sunny bhiya kicks *** !!

 

[acid rain]

Why not ...Things are so out of the world in Bollywood

Thats make believe, thats cinema - its meant for entertainment. I hope you arent taking marvel comic heroes seriously and looking for logic too.

 

[IND151]

Of course, but the real benefit comes only, if we build important parts and not basic subsystems. That helps us in to learn and for our future developments.

Agreed.

So any idea what sub subsystems we will be building?

 

[sancho]

This government was always in favor of indigenous goods and thats what has reflected in the budget.

Actually the new government was in favour for indigenous manufacturing and that's what we see supported so far (FDI and and DRDO, OFB budget increase), what we don't know however is, if they consider indigenous "alternatives" to MMRCA too, which is possible for them while it wasn't for the former government, same goes btw for the foreign LUH competition, or if the see HAL's LUH as an alternative. So we still don't know exactly what their policy is and therefore many options are open now.

As it is we and the MOD all know that squadron strength is depleting any re bid even to look at EF will be suicidal for the country.

That's not entirely correct, the key is if the winning manufacturer can meet the original delivery time frame of the RFP around 2016 and with what kind of version.

Saab - Gripen E production only from 2018 onwards, that's why Brazil will get Gripen C/D as a stop gap, which doesn't meet IAF's requirements
EF - T3A's already under production, with A2A and improved A2G capabilities from 2016 onwards, T3B with AESA and more upgrades from 2018 onwards
Rafale - F3+ in production, but without the required HMS or IRST, nor is the Litening LDP integrated, the first squadron would be available till 2018

None of the fighters we might get till 2018 will fully meet IAF's initial requirements (especially not the Gripen), but the EF T3A does offer a good part of what IAF wants technically and performance wise and could be inducted in higher numbers than Rafales in the same time. So it depends on where the priorities are. If the shortfall of squadrons is such a big problem (which I don't think it is and it's just a PR matter to speed up MMRCA), the EF would actually be the best option. The contract negotiations might take time again, but the EF T3A's are already under production for the partner countries and would just need to be diverted, which they would love to do under their current budget constrains and to get this big order.
Also, if the priority turns to the most benefits for indigenous manufacturing, I am pretty sure that BAE and AIRBUS can offer far more benefits to India, that Dassault or Thales can, so if the EF partners make their offer attractive enough to BJP, reconsideration is possible.

There is no doubt that the Rafale is "currently" the best fighter available for India, nor that the cost/benefit ratio will be quiet good, but there are reasons that could benefit the EF too now and depending on what the policy of the new government is, it can change things.

Agreed.

So any idea what sub subsystems we will be building?

Not sure, I only know that Snecma has formed a JV with HAL to build the M88 engine in India, but halloween mentioned, that up to 100% of the engine could be build in India, by diverting the manufacturing of subsystems.

 

[Sage]

Thats make believe, thats cinema - its meant for entertainment. I hope you arent taking marvel comic heroes seriously and looking for logic too.

Do the marvel comics have a chance to stand against Rajni Kaant btw ...Indian cinema is not only entertainment ....

sure they are,,,btw what was the last good movie u watched,just getting curious

Kiya Delhi Kiya Lahore !

 

[IND151]

Actually the new government was in favour for indigenous manufacturing and that's what we see supported so far (FDI and and DRDO, OFB budget increase), what we don't know however is, if they consider indigenous "alternatives" to MMRCA too, which is possible for them while it wasn't for the former government, same goes btw for the foreign LUH competition, or if the see HAL's LUH as an alternative. So we still don't know exactly what their policy is and therefore many options are open now.



That's not entirely correct, the key is if the winning manufacturer can meet the original delivery time frame of the RFP around 2016 and with what kind of version.

Saab - Gripen E production only from 2018 onwards, that's why Brazil will get Gripen C/D as a stop gap, which doesn't meet IAF's requirements
EF - T3A's already under production, with A2A and improved A2G capabilities from 2016 onwards, T3B with AESA and more upgrades from 2018 onwards
Rafale - F3+ in production, but without the required HMS or IRST, nor is the Litening LDP integrated, the first squadron would be available till 2018

None of the fighters we might get till 2018 will fully meet IAF's initial requirements (especially not the Gripen), but the EF T3A does offer a good part of what IAF wants technically and performance wise and could be inducted in higher numbers than Rafales in the same time. So it depends on where the priorities are. If the shortfall of squadrons is such a big problem (which I don't think it is and it's just a PR matter to speed up MMRCA), the EF would actually be the best option. The contract negotiations might take time again, but the EF T3A's are already under production for the partner countries and would just need to be diverted, which they would love to do under their current budget constrains and to get this big order.
Also, if the priority turns to the most benefits for indigenous manufacturing, I am pretty sure that BAE and AIRBUS can offer far more benefits to India, that Dassault or Thales can, so if the EF partners make their offer attractive enough to BJP, reconsideration is possible.

There is no doubt that the Rafale is "currently" the best fighter available for India, nor that the cost/benefit ratio will be quiet good, but there are reasons that could benefit the EF too now and depending on what the policy of the new government is, it can change things.



Not sure, I only know that Snecma has formed a JV with HAL to build the M88 engine in India, but halloween mentioned, that up to 100% of the engine could be build in India, by diverting the manufacturing of subsystems.

It seems LUH is based on Dhruv.

Not sure, I only know that Snecma has formed a JV with HAL to build the M88 engine in India, but halloween mentioned, that up to 100% of the engine could be build in India

Good development.

 

[sancho]

It seems LUH is based on Dhruv.

That's a very early concept model, the real one looks different:

But it's logical that they will base this development on lessons learned from Dhruv or on similar techs and systems. We know that it will get a varient of the Shakti engine, that was developed for Dhruv, materials and avionics surely are similar or evolutions of those of Dhruv too.

 

[IND151]

That's a very early concept model, the real one looks different:

But it's logical that they will base this development on lessons learned from Dhruv or on similar techs and systems. We know that it will get a varient of the Shakti engine, that was developed for Dhruv, materials and avionics surely are similar or evolutions of those of Dhruv too.

What are the differences between Dhruv and LUH?