rubyjackass
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India challenges Pakistan on new turfs
- Thread starter Kompromat
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FlickerSingh
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i think u are correct on the 1st point but mistaken on the last 2 points u made there
IceCold
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While it is only logical to believe that India will keep its military deterrence level according to its needs and not Pakistan, Same stands true for us however i dont see the logic behind India bringing Pakistan into and everything just for the sake of either blaming Pakistan or perhaps in an attempt to isolate Pakistan which will only prove to be counter productive as far as Indian interests are concerned.
For starters when India says we have a mechanism for discussing bilateral issues and rejects any third party involvement, then how come it takes a u-turn and asks saudies for help?
Saudi Arabia has leverage over Pakistan, has anybody even bothered to stop for a second and think how much leverage does Saudi Arabia really enjoy on Pakistan and specially when PPP is in government, had it be NS and PML(N) one could have argued but not in the current scenario. Besides lets not forget SA will not go beyond its national interests just because India offered large scale Indian investment.
Here Two things come in mind:
1) what kind of investement and is saudi arabia really in need of such investment by India specially when there are others to fill in the gap?
2) Dont forget Pakistan provides SaudiArabia with both defence and nuclear shield, does India come anywhere near or can compensate even remotely once Saudiarabia alienates Pakistan?
The idea of isolating Pakistan has never worked in the past, nor will it ever work in the future, India should better accept this reality that Pakistan has its own importence at the world stage and any attempt by India to isolate Pakistan or declare it as a failed and terrorist state will only be counter productive to Indias own interest in the region as Pakistan too will do the same to check mate India as we have seen lately in the Afghanistan theatre.
This is my personal opinion, feel free to disagree.
For starters when India says we have a mechanism for discussing bilateral issues and rejects any third party involvement, then how come it takes a u-turn and asks saudies for help?
Saudi Arabia has leverage over Pakistan, has anybody even bothered to stop for a second and think how much leverage does Saudi Arabia really enjoy on Pakistan and specially when PPP is in government, had it be NS and PML(N) one could have argued but not in the current scenario. Besides lets not forget SA will not go beyond its national interests just because India offered large scale Indian investment.
Here Two things come in mind:
1) what kind of investement and is saudi arabia really in need of such investment by India specially when there are others to fill in the gap?
2) Dont forget Pakistan provides SaudiArabia with both defence and nuclear shield, does India come anywhere near or can compensate even remotely once Saudiarabia alienates Pakistan?
The idea of isolating Pakistan has never worked in the past, nor will it ever work in the future, India should better accept this reality that Pakistan has its own importence at the world stage and any attempt by India to isolate Pakistan or declare it as a failed and terrorist state will only be counter productive to Indias own interest in the region as Pakistan too will do the same to check mate India as we have seen lately in the Afghanistan theatre.
This is my personal opinion, feel free to disagree.
The point over here is not isolation. The thread started about Pakistan complaining about Indias defense budget and its new initiative in SA. So, its not India which is doing any complaining, its Pakistan which feels threatened by the new Indo SA equation, as the reports say.
FIIs are ruling the Indian stock market. It has doubled since last year. Plus lots of opportunity to invest in the infrastructure and real estate field. GOI has ambitious plans for infra including roads, ports, airports. Plenty of options for the Saudis. Even China is taking its pie of Indian infra projects.
About Pakistan providing Saudis with nuke and defense coverage, i would consider that as a joke. With the US army there, its they who are calling the shots. When you say nuke coverage, what do you mean? Stationing you nukes there with delivery systems? I dont think so. Or given them working bombs? On both counts violation of international obligations amounting to proliferation of WMDs. Now make up your mind as to what Pakistan is doing for the Saudis.
FIIs are ruling the Indian stock market. It has doubled since last year. Plus lots of opportunity to invest in the infrastructure and real estate field. GOI has ambitious plans for infra including roads, ports, airports. Plenty of options for the Saudis. Even China is taking its pie of Indian infra projects.
About Pakistan providing Saudis with nuke and defense coverage, i would consider that as a joke. With the US army there, its they who are calling the shots. When you say nuke coverage, what do you mean? Stationing you nukes there with delivery systems? I dont think so. Or given them working bombs? On both counts violation of international obligations amounting to proliferation of WMDs. Now make up your mind as to what Pakistan is doing for the Saudis.
IceCold
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You my friend have absolutely no idea about the cooperation between pakistan and Saudi Arabia. And for your kind information to be under the nuclear umbrella is not the same as providing some one with nukes and hence does not fall under the proliferation category.
Consider the example of the kind of shield the US provides to Japan, South Korea against the North Korea.
Here is something for to you to read:
Nuclear umbrella - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I know the Saudis and Pakistanis have been close. But Pakistan is in no position to provide a nuke umbrella protection to any other country. Saudis have been unofficially under US umbrella. The saudis are more dependent on the west for its defense needs than any other countries.
IceCold
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Time for you to take off your blinds and see the reality. US does not provide nuclear umbrella to SaudiArabia. The jewish community is too strong to let this happen. There are only two countries SaudiArabia would need such an Umbrella against Iran and Israel. While one can expect US to provide such Umbrella against Iran, but what about against Israel. And why do you think Pakistan is in no position to provide SaudiArabia with a nuclear umbrella remains unclear to me other then ofcourse Indian mentality of yours(No offense).
Though such things are highly confidential and have no links to back up however here is something that might help you clear your mind.
Pakistan ? Saudi Arabia relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I have used wiki as a reference source.
My being an indian has nothing to do with no accepting pakistan as the one providing nuke protection to SA.
Problem is that you have to look at a comment from an indian as anti pak only.
The only country capable of providing nuke umbrella is the US today and once upon a time USSR for obvious reasons.
The only connection between the Saudis and pak nukes are the things we heard about Saudis financing the nuke program of pakistan for the so called islamic bomb. In return the designs were to be handed to them for their own program or maybe a complete bomb itself.
Lets understand the implication of say a pak nuke umbrella for the Saudis. It means you will attack a country that attacks SA with nukes. lets consider israel. Point 1, do you have the deliver system to reach israel? Second, if you were to attack israel which is under US protection, then that would mean you are in line to be nuked by the US for the commitment they have with the Israelis.
If its iran, then you are declaring a war with iran for attacking SA and then they will rain their WMD on pak. Are you ready for that?
Request you to consider things beyond rhetoric and the obvious doubts as its coming from an indian. But I am no fan for a my papa strongest contest and don't indulge in such kinds of posts.
Problem is that you have to look at a comment from an indian as anti pak only.
The only country capable of providing nuke umbrella is the US today and once upon a time USSR for obvious reasons.
The only connection between the Saudis and pak nukes are the things we heard about Saudis financing the nuke program of pakistan for the so called islamic bomb. In return the designs were to be handed to them for their own program or maybe a complete bomb itself.
Lets understand the implication of say a pak nuke umbrella for the Saudis. It means you will attack a country that attacks SA with nukes. lets consider israel. Point 1, do you have the deliver system to reach israel? Second, if you were to attack israel which is under US protection, then that would mean you are in line to be nuked by the US for the commitment they have with the Israelis.
If its iran, then you are declaring a war with iran for attacking SA and then they will rain their WMD on pak. Are you ready for that?
Request you to consider things beyond rhetoric and the obvious doubts as its coming from an indian. But I am no fan for a my papa strongest contest and don't indulge in such kinds of posts.
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