India cannot defeat Pakistan militarily

[Titanium100]

What happens after only the Lord knows. What we do know is India sits pretty much secure and this is fine for them. They'll probably offer the international border solution again for the LOC.

Well ofcourse both sides have taken Kashmir out of their calculus for almost 40 years ago.. Because both sides are nuclear armed hence you just stating the obvious. India has given up on GB and AK likewise..

If they fight then it has to be for all of India or all of Pakistan because that is what it takes to engage.

But don't underrate the Indian stupidty they will eventually down the line in the near future decades from now commit a mistake or miscalculation enough to bring about an existential conflict and the reason is because extremist elements are bound to take power in India forget BJP they are light but the future has in hold much much more extremist elements.

Hence India technically doesn't want conflict per their calculus because everyone will become a loser but their far future extremist elements will attempt to run riot forcing Pakistan to fight an existential war where it becomes either him or you.

Who will be the likely culprit? not Pakistan, nor current India nor BJP but a future elements who will come to power in India could be decades from now they will enforce an ultimatum and nuclear armegeddon without thinking thru things..

They will bring about prophetic scale conflict where it is either you or him.. An ultimatum

 

[Joe Shearer]

From what I have seen, that war simulation stuff needs much smaller set piece engagements to get results first to know the limitations and lessons for improvement (to take to larger scales).

These smaller practice chunks can be done with folks like panzerkiel and both sides working together with all blindfolds off initially, just to get comfy with the system and process (and this of course can be quite a multinational effort, the people just need to know their beans and be trusted by the earlier group that initiated this previously etc)

....these smaller results (a few each for air, land and sea) will also spur more interest here for others to pitch in time and contribute to the next tiers of scale where we try to introduce blindfolds, working groups, combined arms and so on.

It was way too much to start with a full on war simulation given the constraints of both the program and the process.

This, of course, relates to the war game that was attempted. It might be tried again, if we can get together proper teams and work through all that rather painful foundation work that we went through then.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Well ofcourse both sides have taken Kashmir out of their calculus.. Because both sides are nuclear armed hence you just stating the obvious. India has given up on GB and AK likewise..

If they fight then it has to be for all of India or all of Pakistan because that is what it takes to engage.

But don't underrate the Indian stupidty they will eventually down the line in the near future decades from now commit a mistake or miscalculation enough to bring about an existential conflict and the reason is because extremist elements are bound to take power in India forget BJP they are light but the future has in hold much much more extremist elements.

Hence India technically doesn't want conflict per their calculus because everyone will become a loser but their far future extremist elements will attempt to run riot forcing Pakistan to fight an existential war where it becomes either him or you.

Who will be the likely culprit not Pakistan, current India nor BJP but a future elements who will come to power in India could be decades from now they will enforce an ultimatum and nuclear armegeddon without thinking thru things

Translated:

Having done stupid things ourselves for seventy plus years, we now expect the other side to take over the lead and get stupid. We are free to make as many mistakes as we can, including jumping astride a buzz-saw with the inevitable divisive results, but we think that the impending mistake that the other side deserves to make, considering how much is at stake for us, will settle things once and for all.

Even though it seems that the Indians want to avoid conflict, their lunatics will create a dangerous situation for Pakistan, Pakistan will turn and fight, and all will be ashes and dust.

So that is the dangerous situation facing us. The dangerous element is neither present-day India nor Pakistan, nor even the BJP, but is an animated nightmare.

 

[Signalian]

@Joe Shearer

The reason Pakistan won't include China or Turkey militarily in its WOT on Western front (against TTP, BLA and Afghanistan border) is probably because that will expose internal politics and related unsolved issues that are part of military-civil political tussle.

Against India, it might be a different story.

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

The military brass have given up on Kashmir. It's a fact and people need to realise this now.
What happens after only the Lord knows. What we do know is India sits pretty much secure and this is fine for them. They'll probably offer the international border solution again for the LOC.

No Pakistani has given up on the Kashmir dispute. It will have to be passed on to the next generation to figure it out.
The Pakistani military has not given up on Kashmir. Otherwise we would have recognized LOC as the international border many years ago.
There is still a chance to get Kashmir in a fair and honest manner.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer

The reason Pakistan won't include China or Turkey militarily in its WOT on Western front (against TTP, BLA and Afghanistan border) is probably because that will expose internal politics and related unsolved issues that are part of military-civil political tussle.

Against India, it might be a different story.

Sounds logical.

 

[Krptonite]

@Joe Shearer

The reason Pakistan won't include China or Turkey militarily in its WOT on Western front (against TTP, BLA and Afghanistan border) is probably because that will expose internal politics and related unsolved issues that are part of military-civil political tussle.

Against India, it might be a different story.

Ignoring the economic dimension, capability wise, the PA is well equipped and trained to check any Indian advances in her territory. Her capability and geography is such that it would be the direst scenario if IA has managed to reach your command centres.

PA is strong enough to do it without help. Asking for help comes at a cost, why pay it if your current capabilities out match your current needs.

 

[arjunk]

I believe if good Indian users get active on the forum, there won't be a need for a code of conduct and their posts will overshadow the majority of troll

Yes, I remember during Covid there was a false flagger who told me and another member who was very knowledgeable in the field that India can survive a Pakistani nuclear attack and go back to normal.

While I was used to their such iq trolling (it's present even on , the other guy lost it and left the forum in frustration despite my attempts to console him and convince him otherwise. A shame, as his posts were very informational

 

[brational]

Good luck!

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thewire.in

Nice try. First I thought to write a counter argument on the references you put up then I realised that it is not worth the time. I will simply leave it to your intellect as I have nothing to prove to a citizen of a country which runs on Doles, Loans and Fantasy world. I give up. Literally..

When I look back to 2011 when I joined this forum, Paklanders were moving in reverse gear then and still they are unable to change the course. Failure of Allah you must say.

 

[PDF]

We cud begin with a single scenario and postulate forward. For example, despite the acrimony, what would be the consequences if free economic trade was unhindered or open regardless between us.

Or

What if the artistic intellengensia from both sides could perform unhindered in each others country. Would it help? Or ultimately worthless?

Or

What would the economic implications of Saarc being an entity similar to the european union.

A single topic has the advantage of keeping the discussion cohesive instead of scattered.

Unfortunately, nothing can be seen independently and until the root causes are not resolved, any trade activity, cultural exchanges and even cricket as we know will be at mercy of the fraught ties.

We can sure assume that let's try to be pragmatic, but unlike multinational engagements, bilateral ties are much more fragile. A single incident of a militant attack against armed forces can shatter the whole castle of glass.

India considering ending LoC ceasefire after Mujahideen attacks

BREAKING Indian diplomats verbally inform Pakistani counterparts in multiple third countries that their government is weighing and considering to review the full ceasefire condition on the #Pakistan-#India Line of Control (LOC), the active military demarcation line manned by both sides’ armies...

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We have to select a topic that can be implemented in a meaningful way without much disruptions.
SAARC major members are India and perhaps Pakistan. It can at best be dysfunctional and simply serve educational cooperation. But yes, we can discuss ways to make SAARC more active. This can be a start. But guess what? SAARC summit is due in Pakistan. I don't have any hopes, at least at the moment of India willing to participate in it.

 

[Krptonite]

Unfortunately, nothing can be seen independently and until the root causes are not resolved, any trade activity, cultural exchanges and even cricket as we know will be at mercy of the fraught ties.

We can sure assume that let's try to be pragmatic, but unlike multinational engagements, bilateral ties are much more fragile. A single incident of a militant attack against armed forces can shatter the whole castle of glass.

India considering ending LoC ceasefire after Mujahideen attacks

BREAKING Indian diplomats verbally inform Pakistani counterparts in multiple third countries that their government is weighing and considering to review the full ceasefire condition on the #Pakistan-#India Line of Control (LOC), the active military demarcation line manned by both sides’ armies...

defence.pk

We have to select a topic that can be implemented in a meaningful way without much disruptions.
SAARC major members are India and perhaps Pakistan. It can at best be dysfunctional and simply serve educational cooperation. But yes, we can discuss ways to make SAARC more active. This can be a start. But guess what? SAARC summit is due in Pakistan. I don't have any hopes, at least at the moment of India willing to participate in it.

I agree completely with your points.

Current scenario being what it is, the proposed thought experiment would be nothing short of a fanfiction. My point is exactly that

Aren't you tired of the repetitive "you bad evil scum die" on this forum? Thats not to say you shudnt voice opposition to any shenanigans the other side or any side is pulling but then why do one and not the other.

Thinking flexibility should be encouraged as formulating scenarios even unlikely ones is a skillset with immese real life benefits. Posters here do it daily by posting how we're going to bash each other figuratively or literally why should that be an impediment to a complete opposite type of discussion.

Jisko ladna hai lado apne kone me.

Waiise Thoda genre change is good for the library

 

[Areesh]

Yes, I liked the entire post; it is difficult to like three lines in a post, ignore two lines or dislike them, and return again to liking the remaining two lines.

It is not necessary that I liked the two sentences you brought out.

His rest of that post wasn't exactly an example of high intellect

But yeah I got your point

 

[Joe Shearer]

His rest of that post wasn't exactly an example of high intellect

But yeah I got your point

I don't like the lies put out by the pols. Notice that these are all articulated by some hapless fauji with an obvious gun held to his head. My blood boils at what they are doing to the military.

Nice try. First I thought to write a counter argument on the references you put up then I realised that it is not worth the time. I will simply leave it to your intellect as I have nothing to prove to a citizen of a country which runs on Doles, Loans and Fantasy world. I give up. Literally..

When I look back to 2011 when I joined this forum, Paklanders were moving in reverse gear then and still they are unable to change the course. Failure of Allah you must say.

Why are you getting banned? How do we put up a point of view if we pick these little squabbles and get banned?

Once you come back, please ensure that you are there to make the case for India, not against an individual Pakistani.

Very disappointed.

 

[Eskander]

Thanks for confirming what l always knew

Our enemies that can undo Pakistan unfortunately live amongst us

 

[nahtanbob]

this is nonsense. Indian politicians while corrupt (with rare exceptions such as Modi and handful) are not in anyway impediments to the Indian army. Line of command is clear, responsibilities and accountability well in place and most importantly strengths and weaknesses are well understood.

There is really no call for an equivocation or comparison with the out of control Pakistan

I hear what you say. But things are clear in Pakistan too. It is the generals who tell the politicians what to do