INDIA: Building a Modern Arsenal in India

[desiman]

■In 2006, India reportedly finalized the deal with RSK-Mig of Russia for $888 million to upgrade its fleet of Mig-29s. Under this upgrade, Mig-29s will be fitted with new avionics, electronic warfare suites and Phazatron Zhuk-M radar with a wide scan and tracking area of + / - 85 deg. in azimuth and + / - 60 deg. in elevation, terrain following mode, and ground target acquisition including high-resolution modes. Phazatron Zhuk-M radar range is 1.5 times than the Zhuk radar. RD-33 engines will also be worked upon to deal with some known issues. Planes will be provided ground attack and mid-air refueling capabilities. Currently 6 aircrafts are in Russia undergoing upgrades and the rest of the aircraft will be upgraded in Ojhar AFB, Nasik. This upgrade system will increase the life of Mig-29s from 25 year to 40 years.
■In the late 1990s, an agreement was signed between HAL and Turbomeca for installation of TM333 turboshaft engine on the Indian Dhruv helicopter.After the successful installation, HAL decided to develop a new engine with Turbomeca with 25% more power to enable Dhruv to operate in extremely cold and high terrains, like Siachin and extremely hot, like Rajasthan. The new engine was to be of the same size as the TM333 but it provided more power to perform missions at high altitudes. Dhruv flew with these Ardiden 1H (Shakti) engines on August 13, 2007 and was certified by the European Aviation Safety Agency in December 2007.

 

[desiman]

Shakti engines were further developed to Ardiden 1H1 with power output of 1032 kW. Five prototypes of these engines were delivered in December, 2008. Test flight of the Dhruv with twin Ardiden 1H1 engines took place on 12th January, 2009. The engine will be certified by EASA by March, 2009. Currently engines are being tested at Siachin. Once successfully installed on Dhruv, they would add punch to Dhruv’s reliability and performance and help the Army to replace the ageing fleets of the Chetak and Cheetah helicopters.

■MoD has also scrapped a tender of 22 attack helicopters for which three international companies submitted their proposals. These companies were Russia’s Kamov, the European Aeronautic Defence and Space (EADS) company and Italian-British group Agusta Westland. Two US based companies Boeing and Bell had already quit the race. The deal was supposed to be worth $550 million. The RFP was cancelled as the three companies could not meet the qualitative requirements. A fresh RFP will be floated shortly by the MoD.

 

[desiman]

India to raise defence procurement from domestic market

19 Dec 2009, 1956 hrs IST, IANS

KOLKATA: India hopes to procure almost 70 percent of its defence hardware from domestic sources in the next 10 years, up from 30 percent now,
Minister of State for Defence M.M. Pallam Raju said on Saturday.

"India imports nearly 70 percent of its total defence related requirement. We want to reverse that trend in the next five to 10 years time," Pallam Raju said at a seminar organized by the Confederation of Indian Industry (CII).

Talking about the country's aerospace engineering segment, he said Indian companies had a lot of potential to cater to the domestic as well as international markets.

"Global aerospace companies have started looking at India as an outsourcing hub for technology and development," the minister said.

"Currently, the aerospace industry worldwide spends about $60 billion globally on engineering, with India accounting for less than one percent of this, as compared to 12 percent offshoring of the overall engineering services."

According to Pallam Raju, the value of offshored engineering services in aerospace in India was estimated at $700-800 million.

"This figure is expected to grow to $3 billion by 2020. If manufacturing is also included, this can also jump up to $10-12 billion," he said.

 

[desiman]

LOL sorry guys if i posted too much but i work in procurement and any related news gets me hyper lol I will post some interesting inside news about some recent Pakistani procurement deals that I have heard from inside sources soon.

 

[Iggy]

■MoD has also scrapped a tender of 22 attack helicopters for which three international companies submitted their proposals. These companies were Russia’s Kamov, the European Aeronautic Defence and Space (EADS) company and Italian-British group Agusta Westland. Two US based companies Boeing and Bell had already quit the race. The deal was supposed to be worth $550 million. The RFP was cancelled as the three companies could not meet the qualitative requirements. A fresh RFP will be floated shortly by the MoD.

I dont understand the logic behind 22 attack helicopters??its very small quantity and also why buying those when LCH is going to be tested soon..if every thing is going according to the plan ..LCH and those Helicopters will be in force at the same time..It doesnt make any sense..anyone can answer this??please

 

[desiman]

I dont understand the logic behind 22 attack helicopters??its very small quantity and also why buying those when LCH is going to be tested soon..if every thing is going according to the plan ..LCH and those Helicopters will be in force at the same time..It doesnt make any sense. anyone can answer this??please

Yes my man I shall answer that for you, as I have heard from my friends at the MOD, these helicopter are been procured for the following reasons -
1) experience operating advanced platforms with matured technology
2)will help develop LCH further in the future
3)India plans to use these helicopters as more of a deterrent until the LCH is fully ready.
4)Diversity is key, India does not want to have only 1 type of attack helicopter.
5) India wants to show to the world that it can buy whatever it wants from wherever.
6) LOL arms dealers will push the MOD for this deal because of the amount involved, loads of money to make.
there are some other reasons also but the point is that these helicopters will offer a matured platform to India which will help us greatly in the future. Hope i answered your questions

 

[Iggy]

Yes my man I shall answer that for you, as I have heard from my friends at the MOD, these helicopter are been procured for the following reasons -
1) experience operating advanced platforms with matured technology
2)will help develop LCH further in the future
3)India plans to use these helicopters as more of a deterrent until the LCH is fully ready.
4)Diversity is key, India does not want to have only 1 type of attack helicopter.
5) India wants to show to the world that it can buy whatever it wants from wherever.
6) LOL arms dealers will push the MOD for this deal because of the amount involved, loads of money to make.
there are some other reasons also but the point is that these helicopters will offer an matured platform to India which will help us greatly in the future. Hope i answered your questions

Thanks man..but why only 22?? Is it very less quantity?? and also the 5 th point..did we already established that ??

 

[desiman]

Thanks man..but why only 22?? Is it very less quantity?? and also the 5 th point..did we already established that ??

Yes the quantity is less but from what i have heard from the MOD that quantity will be increased further to around 50. But again the limited quantity is just to get a taste of the latest’s tech and then use that experience to develop the LCH further which by what i have seen will be a very potent machine. Yes we established that point but was just emphasizing again on it. It very amazing that so many companies are trying to get their hands into the Indian market, this will benefit us greatly. Now we can choose what we buy and from a procurement point of view that means lots of savings and better quality.

 

[desiman]

Boeing eyes jump in India defense deals
Bappa Majumdar
NEW DELHI

NEW DELHI (Reuters) - U.S. aircraft manufacturer Boeing Co (BA.N) is looking to bid for defense projects worth up to $31 billion over the next 10 years in India, as strategic ties between the two countries deepen.

"It is a $31 billion market for us to bid in the defense sector and rising," Vivek Lall, India country head of Boeing's Integrated Defense Systems (IDS), told Reuters Wednesday.

"There is a tremendous growth prospect in India and it is no longer about buying and selling, it is now about being a fabric of the country, being a partner and a preferred partner," Lall said in an interview in New Delhi.

The company has also submitted a bid for six medium range naval warfare aircraft contract, weeks after it signed a $2.1 billion contract for eight P-8I warfare planes.

"It is a P-8I derivative and is a good fit for the navy to consider it," Lall said.

The Indian Navy is keen to replace its aging fleet of aircraft with state-of-the-art fighters with latest technology.

Lall said the P-8I contract was the perfect example of how India is getting the latest technology for its defense forces.

"It is a shining example of something unprecedented, we have the U.S. Navy and the Indian Navy receiving the aircraft at the same time," Lall said.

Boeing plans to make inroads into the South Asian defense market and has already submitted a bid for a contract to supply India with 126 multi-role fighter jets, potentially worth more than $10 billion.

Lall said Boeing's India projection for defense projects could get revised as the defense sector opens up further, following a landmark Indo-U.S. civilian nuclear deal signed last November.

The deal gave New Delhi access to civilian nuclear fuel and technology on the international market for the first time in three decades, helping boost business confidence in India.

"The bridging of the Indo-U.S. relationship has really helped us. Things that are happening in the defense sector now, we could not think about it a few years ago," Lall said.

India, fast becoming one of the world's biggest arms importers, wants to modernize its air force, the fourth largest in the world, to cope with possible security threats in the region, security experts said.

India is looking to spend $30 billion on imports over the next five years to modernize its largely Soviet-era arms by introducing new weapons systems.

Separately, Boeing is focusing on the services sector in India in 2009, by providing spare parts and software to India along with its subsidiary companies.

The company has already submitted a detailed proposal to the Indian government to help build the country's aerospace industry and transfer defense technology to meet government conditions for defense contracts.

"We want to establish a strong India footprint, regardless of the platform sales and that is a very important dimension to our company in 2009," Lall said.

From just one office in 2005, the company now has nine offices in India and will expand further, Lall added.

 

[desiman]

India Relooking New Tanker Aircraft
December 16, 2009 by Matthew Potter ·

Filed under: Business Line, Companies, Contract Awards, Countries, EADS, Events, India, Military Aviation, Proposal, development program, logistics

India currently operates a version of the Ilyushin-76 transport aircraft as an aerial tanker. The Il-78 “Midas” has been in service with Russia and India for several years and is a rugged, fairly cheap solution. Recently the Indian government had proposed new tankers based on the Airbus A330 aircraft. The same tanker is being purchased by England and would be considered again by the U.S. Air Force for its KC-X competition.

Now it is reported that the Finance Ministry has raised some concerns over the cost of the A330 compared to the Il-78. Both aircraft were proposed for the contract and the Il-78 was the cheaper bid. The Ministry feels that the contract should be reconsidered on cost grounds and also due to the fact that India already operates the Il-78 making it easier to integrate the new tankers. It is assumed though that the A330 platform offers benefits in capability and technology level over the older Russian aircraft.

India has been planning on new investment in their Armed Forces utilizing the purchase of foriegn, Western equipment to quickly upgrade their technological level. At the same time new rules on offsets and foriegn investment means that their economy will gain through these deals. The most important contract that is out there is for a new fighter which is currently undergoing the early stages of competition. Several U.S. and European companies as well as MiG have submitted bids.

It might be that the Indian Government decides that the higher cost of the A330 is worth it if the capability purchased is significantly enhanced.

 

[TheBraveHeart]

LOL sorry guys if i posted too much but i work in procurement and any related news gets me hyper lol I will post some interesting inside news about some recent Pakistani procurement deals that I have heard from inside sources soon.

Hi desidog,
since u say u work in procurement, can u please tell us why so many deals are canceled then rebid in India...almost each deal has had the same fate...isn't the gov. sensitive enough or the kickbacks are a problem??
Its sad to hear about the latest tanker drama!!
will like to know ur views!!
thanks...

 

[desiman]

Brave heart India has a very complicated system , let me give you an overview

1) the armed forced requisition a purchase or show interest in a particular product. It can be old, new, domestic, international etc etc. Basically they want something in plain language lol
2) MOD gets the request the request is given a rough calculation of what it will cost and on the basis of that a request for quote is issued to the defense minster.
3) Once the defense minters approves the rough draft and the rough cost a tender is put out to either international vendors or domestic ones depending on the product. It can take anywhere from 1-5 years to get to this point which is way to much and much higher than the global average which sits at around 1-2 years.
4) The bidding is where the main problem lies, to sum it up it’s a very dirty market. Backstabbing, fraud, corruption and in some cases even murder as prevalent at this stage. With the involvement of many arms dealers each deal starts to lag and cost increase dramatically.
5) Being a democracy governments change and as they change the whole department changes and basically the new minister can cancel out w.e. the old one did which means that we have to start at step 1 again.
6) Many other issues also slow India down such as too much red tape, unfriendly attitude to foreign competitors, under qualified officials and obviously corruption.
7) Theses things happen all over the world, the defense market is such that corruption cannot be avoided but in India it’s a huge problems.
8) But really things are improving example the INS Jalaswa was procured in record time because of the direct involvement of the PM’s offices due to it being connection to the United States. With the RTI act in place and more measures being taken you will see a huge improvement soon.

This issue is very very complex and something that I have been dealing with for a long time so explaining all the details would take me pages and pages, this is just an overview. If you want more info about the whole system feel free to ask bro.

 

[desiman]

just for example In 1990, for instance, the Indian army asked the government to have their old 130mm artillery guns up-gunned to 155mm One year later New Delhi gave its clearance, and Soltam of Israel was picked from among five bidders. Soltam carried out trials in 1993, but the Defense Ministry took another five years to approve the bid and fulfill the army’s requirement.
These delays have also jeopardized a number of vital purchases, such as the Israel Aircraft Industries Heron unmanned aerial vehicle, the Russian Smerch multiple-launch rocket system and the Bhim self-propelled howitzer. Worse still, over the past five years, inability to make timely decisions has forced India’s Ministry of Defense to return close to $7.3 billion earmarked for new equipment and modernization.

 

[TheBraveHeart]

Brave heart India has a very complicated system , let me give you an overview

1) the armed forced requisition a purchase or show interest in a particular product. It can be old, new, domestic, international etc etc. Basically they want something in plain language lol
2) MOD gets the request the request is given a rough calculation of what it will cost and on the basis of that a request for quote is issued to the defense minster.
3) Once the defense minters approves the rough draft and the rough cost a tender is put out to either international vendors or domestic ones depending on the product. It can take anywhere from 1-5 years to get to this point which is way to much and much higher than the global average which sits at around 1-2 years.
4) The bidding is where the main problem lies, to sum it up it’s a very dirty market. Backstabbing, fraud, corruption and in some cases even murder as prevalent at this stage. With the involvement of many arms dealers each deal starts to lag and cost increase dramatically.
5) Being a democracy governments change and as they change the whole department changes and basically the new minister can cancel out w.e. the old one did which means that we have to start at step 1 again.
6) Many other issues also slow India down such as too much red tape, unfriendly attitude to foreign competitors, under qualified officials and obviously corruption.
7) Theses things happen all over the world, the defense market is such that corruption cannot be avoided but in India it’s a huge problems.
8) But really things are improving example the INS Jalaswa was procured in record time because of the direct involvement of the PM’s offices due to it being connection to the United States. With the RTI act in place and more measures being taken you will see a huge improvement soon.

This issue is very very complex and something that I have been dealing with for a long time so explaining all the details would take me pages and pages, this is just an overview. If you want more info about the whole system feel free to ask bro.

Well, u mentioned corruption and fraud ....these are big issues...
I will like to give an example and ask my point..

We all know that the MRCA deal was supposed to be signed in early 2000's when the Vajpeyee govt. was in place...so If I want some money and I am in an authoritive position, I wud ensure that before the elections the deal is settled else there is a possibility of me losing my kickbacks if the govt. changes....so in effect someone who at that time wud hv gained, has lost his chance after a decade..since he may hv retired/lost/ transferred....two govts. hv changed...still the deal doesnt get signed..arent they sensitive to their own cause... ..why??

thanks

 

[desiman]

Hmm ok here we go

The MRCA deal is the biggest foreign procurement deal in Asia’s history. Estimated at at least $10 billion and going upto $15 billion it is a jackpot for whichever company achieves it. Just imagine guaranteed inflows of $15 billion into your company for the next 10years, that sort of money can drive any company crazy.

1) The MRCA was actually conceived in the early 1990’s by the MOD but due to the recession in the early 1990’s and a unstable economy the plan was shelved.
2) It was restarted around when India conducted its nuclear test but again faced a tough situation with the onset of sanctions because of the test.
3) Credit can be given to the BJP for starting it again but the main pusher has been the congress. It is hard to believe but the MRCA deal has been executed very smoothly with quite less red tape compared to other big deals.
4) Keeping in mind the sheer size and the amount of technical details involved the time frame is not bad. Flight testing is almost complete for all contenders and all models are being studied very closely. India will rely on these jets to aid the SU-30mki as a frontline fighter and will be major deterrent to China also. So that is why these jets must be carefully looked at from every angle and in every geographical condition that India can offer to any plane.
5) Induction is supposed to start in 2010 – 2011 max which is not bad as serious effort for this deal only started in the early 2000’s.
6) With other procurement such as more SU-30’S,LCA,MCA,PAKFA, MIG29K, and potentially other jets, induction and finalizing of the deals must be done in an orderly manner so that it does not strain the economy.
7) In terms of kickbacks this deal has infact been one of the cleanest because of heavy media involvement also the fact that it is too huge for most small arms dealers to even take part in.

On the whole you might hear that the MRCA is too slow or a failure or useless but the ground fact is that the deal is running very smoothly and is mostly on schedule. And by what I am heard from the MOD, the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet has already been chosen because of its diversity and the ongoing relationship between India and USA. Lets see what happens. Hope that answered everything again feel free to ask bro