India behind Pakistan on AWACS front, as delays plague projects

[Omega007]

There will be always two different story but ne thing will be in common, "If wanted changes". The same IAF is ready to except foreign weapons without any changes.

Why are you wrestling with that fuckking pig called Punit, don't you have anything better to do m8??Trust me bro, it just ain't worth the effort, that pig is just way too much opinionated and condescending a prick to have a meaningful discussion with.

 

[#hydra#]

IAF knew these drawbacks from the start itself, they choose the platform and freezes the requirements.
Saab Erieye too have all these problems still 7+ nations operates it including pakistan.


DRDO AWACS will be based on Airbus A330, they will modify the plane according to our needs.

Patient and difficult path is always worth in the long run.

Why did we choose Airbus 330,instead we should go for extra large platforms like AN124 or c17,bigger aircrafts means it can house bigger a radar,means larger area of surveillance.

 

[Omega007]

These days designing a large radar of the size phalcon isn't a big issue for both India and China,thr main hurdle is developing a source code and modeling which makes the reflected signals in useful data for the use of armed forces.

Even the source code is not that big of a problem, in fact you just failed to touch on the real hurdle in DRDO's efforts to make India self sufficient in the field of radars - the absence of even a single semiconductor foundry in country..............without which, they can not have their TRMMs mass produced!!No TRMM, no AESA radars, as simple as that, and we can't blame the LRDE for this matter, it's the GOI that is responsible for this yet another fuckk up of grand proportion.

 

[Genesis]

IAF knew these drawbacks from the start itself, they choose the platform and freezes the requirements.
Saab Erieye too have all these problems still 7+ nations operates it including pakistan.

Sure and Pakistan went for our platform later. The Brazilian jet is not capable of carrying a dome. India could have chose a different plane, but as things stand, if India does import one of those, it would not be used for a Early warning plane.

Another benefit to having your own.

DRDO AWACS will be based on Airbus A330, they will modify the plane according to our needs.

Patient and difficult path is always worth in the long run.

Sure, but what are those needs? Would it change? A host of issues is there even if you made the plane yourself, you can imagine the headache otherwise.

The patient and difficult path is making the plane yourself, but as I said, even Boeing has delays with that.

These days designing a large radar of the size phalcon isn't a big issue for both India and China,thr main hurdle is developing a source code and modeling which makes the reflected signals in useful data for the use of armed forces.

Maybe, but the problem here is obviously the plane you are going to base it on. China was looking at early warning planes since the gulf war, yet it took until the 2000s to get one. The radar is part of it, but surprisingly the more difficult thing is the plane you are going to put it on.


KS-500 was only inducted recently, either last year or 14.

 

[GuardianRED]

The plane is small, thus less equipment, the plane has less endurance than a Y-9. The bar configuration means no 360 coverage, and I have to assume other drawbacks.

China started with the bar configuration, due to the difficulties of the larger dome variant. Now it has moved on to full dome variant with KJ-500.


Home grown solutions for this is very difficult, it's not just the radar, though that too. You need a platform to carry it as well. I guess you can buy it, but these things are expensive to buy and maintain. It's also difficult to design without the ability to alter certain aspects of the plane.

This is one of the main reasons, China for so long, lacked these planes. No home grown platform. Any induction of home grown ones takes decades. Repeated delays even for Boeing.

IAF knew these drawbacks from the start itself, they choose the platform and freezes the requirements.
Saab Erieye too have all these problems still 7+ nations operates it including pakistan.


DRDO AWACS will be based on Airbus A330, they will modify the plane according to our needs.

Patient and difficult path is always worth in the long run.

The bar Config isn't a major drawback . though isn't 360 coverage - its the flight pattern ie the area that is needed to have coverage - tactics are formulated

DRDO AEW&C program is a stepping stone, start with a small and then work it up . And the embraer isn't obsolete. Just since its a spy aircraft - We wouldn't know its capabilities and thus comparing with others is FOOL Hardy

 

[migflug]

Why did we choose Airbus 330,instead we should go for extra large platforms like AN124 or c17,bigger aircrafts means it can house bigger a radar,means larger area of surveillance.

Was that a sarcasm cause u don't bring trucks in a car race. We choose a 330mrtt as it's much better than il 76 , commonality with iaf air refueler , big enough for future upgrades( emberer is quite small) and in future we might opt for a 330mrtt as our transport aircraft to replace il76(if we don't get Globemasters).

 

[GuardianRED]

Was that a sarcasm cause u don't bring trucks in a car race. We choose a 330 as it's much better than il 76 , commonality with iaf air refueler , big enough for future upgrades( emberer is quite small) and in future we might opt for a 330 as our transport aircraft to replace il76(if we don't get Globemasters).

Edit :A330 are MRTT it can't replace the Il76 completely !

 

[PARIKRAMA]

There is always a cost to sustain such operations.
That's why you see Phalcons on bigger jets with huge cost of operations to nimble Embraer based AEWC for better cost efficiency.

We move further ahead and use a 24X7 platform like Aerostats to further reduce the operational cost aspect and improve the efficiency part of monitoring the airspace..

And when you get full fledged satellite monitoring it only add to the benefit we derive by using an optimum cost matrix to see how best we can get the coverage at limited cost..

Of course when there is a high threat level irrespective of cost all will be deployed which are operationally available.

 

[punit]

For 2 Phalcons we are spending around Rs 5,500 cr. IAF says they want 15, that means Rs 82,500 cr (without inflation). $13+ billion is a huge number, that means there should be a home grown solution. (like every strategic weapons).

Btw, How is DRDO AEW&C sub optimal ?

EVEN DRDO is installing AEW&C on Embracer A/C.. do we need to wait for a home grown ( HAL built) AirCraft as well.

 

[migflug]

Edit :A330 are MRTT it can't replace the Il76 completely !

While both are of different capablity (45 ton vs 60 ton) in future iaf may opt A330MRTT to replace il 76 (if we dont get any 2nd hand globemasters).Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense to go for completely brand new design.
The only rational explanation for a completely brand new plane is that india as a country is a huge market for civilian planes. According to Airbus and Boeing India will be one of the top three aviation markets globally in the next 20 years . It may purchase planes of value over $240 billion dollars.
For eg. Indigo has ordered 430 A320neo.
While Airbus is future proof with its superior engines and electronics , Russian equipment have poor serviceability record.
so keeping in mind the above points we may see A330 MRTT replacing IL 76 as well(late 20s).

 

[anant_s]

May be ask Rajat pandit what solution he sees to this issue he mentioned.

Kaam ki fikra kar...
Fikra ka zikra kar....



par kaam mat kar.

Our Defence analysts randomly surf information on net and come up with articles like these.
What are they trying to achieve, perhaps hysteria that followed first M4 Bison flight by USSR prompting US congress to go overdrive and manufacture bombers like maniacs.
Everyone knows, India started very late in acquiring AWACS and a good reason behind that was sanctions that plagued India throughout 80s and 90s.
but now we have inducted A-50 based Phalcon system and 2-3 more might be coming. Apart from that Embrarer based Indian AESA AWACS too would be coming up shortly and after that Airbus A330 mounted 360 degree AWACS will get inducted.
& why does nobody mentions our Satellite based capabilities (though not strictly real time Air Borne Surveillance and Warning), that can definitely help in assessing troop concentrations and movement.
Yes we do lag behind, but not by choice. Important thing is we are moving, in right direction. Eventually, India will have a massive Surveillance capability, not only on Land but also on Sea warfare with P8I and hopefully E2Ds on future.

 

[Joe Shearer]

import lobby at its best!

This is the only notable thing, rests are bull$hit. Can IAF do the same for foreign maals? India has three Phalcons, 2 more ordered. Three DRDO AEW are ready for induction. Total we will have eight AWACS in next two years.

"There were delays due to several factors, including a 27-month one since IAF wanted additional operational requirements,"

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/india-be...-delays-plague-projects.440941/#ixzz4FOmWsfMc

This is the usual specification creep.

 

[GuardianRED]

While both are of different capablity (45 ton vs 60 ton) in future iaf may opt A330MRTT to replace il 76 (if we dont get any 2nd hand globemasters).Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense to go for completely brand new design.
The only rational explanation for a completely brand new plane is that india as a country is a huge market for civilian planes. According to Airbus and Boeing India will be one of the top three aviation markets globally in the next 20 years . It may purchase planes of value over $240 billion dollars.
For eg. Indigo has ordered 430 A320neo.
While Airbus is future proof with its superior engines and electronics , Russian equipment have poor serviceability record.
so keeping in mind the above points we may see A330 MRTT replacing IL 76 as well(late 20s).

Thanks for the Info ... Read all the material needed - BUT u do know that the tender was placed twice and Twice the A330 MRTT was selected !!!!

BUT

The Indian Finance Ministry has FLAG this Twice ... So far anyone has any updated info on this?

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

If I am not wrong 3 of Saab Pak AWACS are destroyed @Oscar Can you tell us how many are in service.

SAAB got each one repaired.

 

[Indian009]

SAAB got each one repaired.

I missed that. Can you provide any link or thread to confirm that ???
Thanks