India ban on Chinese telecom manufacturers exposed

[deepak75]

Hi
from the looks of it, India is pursuing the Mercantile policies to fight off the competition by Chinese cellular companies. This might seem very fair to Indians but when you talk about globalization where you have economic interdependence & integration then pursuing such policies defies the concept of Globalization.

Globalization is more about allowing natural resources float to their real value and not about special export subsidies or manipulated currency as China has. India is interested in ensuring that it gets a fair share of what is its money and not China. So at the core, there is nothing unfair in this. Why don't you try to ship anything except primary goods to China? You will realize what is protectionism and unfairness.

 

[deepak75]

Jana Sister... They have "Security Concerns"... Know what i mean... "Insecurity"

And what is your concern with that Sir?

 

[deepak75]

well Chinese Co so obviously they cant be termed not in contact with their country's institutions.

On another note i have quite good knowledge of this company and trust me the people there are quite fair and on top of it they avoid indulging in any offshoot activities falling into category of spying etc

I am sure that your knowledge of this means well, but the problem is that your knowledge and association does not matter an iota for the GoI.

Thanks for sharing your thinking though.

 

[vikrams]

Thats what Indians claimed. But irrespective of if its Chinese co or anyone's else. I know personally that they have no link with PLA or intelligence.

but in a war situation

indo chin
indo pak

india dont need to sit with huawei or zte network equipment,
army or people coz tech is so advanced ,china can hear or acquire our data using satellite technology from these equipment in india

 

[deepak75]

Thats a good point.

Rather then banning it would;t it make more sense for the India govt to impose a collaboration and technology transfer? This way both sides benefit?

That is already offered to the Chinese businesses. They have been invited to share codes, manufacture in India and make the profits that they desire.

 

[gubbi]

Gubbi, i enjoy debating with you. But lets be honest, that is exactly what "Grunding" use to say about National & Nikon. That the Japanese do not have and i quote "Japan is lightyears behind our technical know how and experience".

In all honesty, there is a big difference between being a manufacturing behemoth and being a center for innovation. The Japanese hardly ever, IIRC, violated the IPR. And because of their innovations they gained great experience in the learning curve.

That cannot be said of the Chinese. Nobody is denying the manufacturing behemoth that is China. However, in the fields of innovation and technology, China lacks far behind. The number of patents is NOT an indicator of Chinese innovation. Lets put it this way, if someone comes up with an improved design for a grip on say a coffee maker, that improved design can be patented. Most of the Chinese patents are in that category. No ground breaking/original innovation.

From tiny acorns do might oaks grow.

Yes, but there are a lot of variables involved. China does not, atm, have some of the most important of them - originality and innovation.

One only has to take a trip to Shenzhen to see at scale at which China is working, and guess where those advanced Sony Autofocus lenses are being made?

As for one member claiming china is a assembly plant, my friend i just bought a Sony Console for my nephew and it clearly says "Made in China", whilst my mobile phone says "Assembled in China"...

There is a big difference in made and assembled.

I do not think so. IMHO, they are both the same. Again, like I said, I do not doubt the Chinese ability to manufacture high tech products. But they do not have the ability to invent and develop such high tech products. Do not take this as a flamebait, but their ability to copy, clone is extraordinary. Maybe its a good thing. Maybe its not. But what one loses here is the learning curve. Technology can progress only if one has a thorough knowledge of the processes involved to achieve that level of sophistication.

So the products that you quoted as examples are NOT 'invented' nor designed in China. Blueprints were given to companies in China, and they got made or assembled there - two different manufacturing processes.

 

[Spring Onion]

China asks India for transparent telecom rules

BEIJING: Chinese Minister of Commerce Chen Deming has expressed worries over reports that India was considering a ban on Chinese telecom equipment, and expressed the hope that New Delhi would provide a fair and transparent investment environment. The statement shows China is getting restive and making it a major diplomatic issue at a time when India is worried about Chinese support to Pakistan in the nuclear energy sector.

"We have noticed the list and are making investigation. We hope India will provide a fair, open and transparent investment environment for Chinese companies," Chen said while referring to a news report in India suggesting that New Delhi has formulated a blacklist of telecom equipment providers containing several Chinese companies and one Israeli firm.

Chen said Indian authorities have assured that their new security regulations would be fair and transparent, and would not be discriminatory and unfair to Chinese companies. "We will wait and see," he was quoted as saying by the official Xinhua news agency.

It is not clear if the equipment sale issue has already become a bargaining chip between the two governments with China giving the Indian government sufficient time to take a decision before taking a decision on the proposed sale of nuclear reactors to Pakistan. Pakistani president Asif Ali Zardari on Friday left for Shanghai after spending four days in Beijing trying to persuade Chinese leaders to sale the reactors and agree to link Pakistan with China by rail. Beijing is yet to commit itself on these issues.

Chen’s remark is significant because it comes only a few days after the National Security Adviser Shiv Shankar Menon assured Chinese leaders that the government will soon come up with a transparent policy on the matter.

“We are in the process of putting in place a new system which will apply to everybody. It is not a China related issue. It is for the entire sector- importers, producers, service providers. DOT is in the process of consulting with service providers to formulate an open and non-discriminatory system. That will be in place soon,” Menon told Indian reporters on Tuesday after meeting Chinese leaders including premier Wen Jiabao.

“I do not think this issue has to do with a single nationality. Any equipment can be used by anybody for anything. That is why it will be a non-discriminatory, open and transparent system. This is why we are consulting,” he said while confirming that the issue of telecom equipment buying did come up in his meetings with Chinese leaders.

Xinhua also quoted Chen as saying that China would strengthen the process of communication with India to ensure a sound investment environment for companies from the two countries.

China asks India for transparent telecom rules - India Business - Business - The Times of India

 

[brain_dead]

chinese products are cheap , but they have the worst quality , there is no doubt about.
chinese mobiles , chines electronic items , they all work for only few days.
haah.. nobody even buy chinese phones now , ever since the government made it madatory for phones to have unique 'iemi' number.

 

[Ras]

Here is a list of Indian (Domestic) Mobile (GSM, EDGE and HSDPA) manufactueres:

• Karbonn
• Intex Technologies
• Micromax
• Videocon
• Lava

Here is an article highlighting why steps such as these are classified "Protectionism":

Indian made mobiles a rage

So yes it is protectionism and nothing more. If it suits India's economy to act in such as way, then it is their choice but to say chinese goods are sub par is wrong, totally wrong.

The Western countries use to act the very same way with Japan when they started making cameras and TVs. and look where they ended up on the Tech Map... So stop being so naive and remember "Google is your friend".

Guess which companies have more than 80% of the Indian market... foreign players like Nokia, Samsung etc. It would be kind of weird to protect the Indian bit players by only banning Chinese handsets..don't you think?

 

[mike05]

There aint much technology there to transfer. If needed ask the japs or the koreans, they make world class products and has reputation world wide.

We are flooded with consumer electronics products from these countries and they have manufacturing plants here in India. So the customer is still the king here and life will go on without Huawaie or hawai or whatever.

True but the question is are the Japanese and Koreans willing to transfer the technology?

I also agree with your statement customer is King, unfortunately we live in a world where govts like to meddle in and things aren't always as clear cut as they seem. Lets hope for the best

 

[jbond197]

You got a link to support the above? I've never come across one and if its true I would like to take a read too

Here you go and seems like India is not the only country concerned about Huwaie and ZTE Manchurian micro chip. Australia, USA, UK has shared similar concerns. Read it and feel Happy.

China bugs India

Environment Minister Jairam Ramesh’s recent remarks in Beijing — calling into question the Home Ministry’s apparently “alarmist” and “overly defensive” approach towards Chinese companies that wish to operate in India — may not eventually cost the Minister his job. But his open advocacy of these firms has certainly led to legitimate questions being asked about the kind of security threats the Home Ministry anticipated for a sector as highly sensitive as telecommunication. While the Home Ministry was quick to clarify that India did not have an anti-China policy in this regard and that every proposal was decided on a case-to-case basis, the controversy has indeed pointed out to the need to explore the matter in greater detail, both in terms of its security and financial costs.

It is intriguing that despite repeated alerts from the Government’s intelligence and technical units, Chinese telecom giants Huawei and Zhong Xing Telecommunication Equipment (ZTE) were allowed into the Indian telecom sector three years ago with bureaucrats and politicians alike choosing to ignore these warnings. It is still a mystery as to how, back in 2007, Huawei was entertained in India, defying common knowledge that the company is headed by officers of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) of China and that it was founded in 1987 by Brigadier Ren Zhengfei and other ex-PLA officers. In fact, much before our R&AW and other intelligence agencies raised an alarm over this company’s presence here, the credentials of Huawei were questioned by junior telecom officials at the Sanchar Bhawan.

According to some telecom engineers familiar with the case, Huawei’s first presentation to the Department of Telecommunication (DoT) for empanelling them as vendors, after they had crossed certain “political barriers,” sowed the first seeds of doubt. They say, “Huawei engineers boasted about having the unique advantage of a Remote Access Servicing System. When asked to explain, they said that their equipment, in case of any faults, can be repaired or serviced from their headquarters in China. Our engineers, out of curiosity, asked what kind of technology this was and how could they repair equipment installed in India by sitting in China.”

Clearly unconvinced, the telecom engineers decided to probe further. “When we consulted our technical counterparts in the security agencies, they also found something fishy in this technology. Back then, the entire world was researching to decode the method behind this Chinese technology. Within days we found out that the company was installing some bugging software or chip in its equipment which enables the company’s Chinese headquarters to enter into our network without our knowledge,” say the engineers. Despite the obvious seriousness of this alert, it was not entertained either by the DoT bureaucrats or their political masters; worse, those who raised these concerns were asked to keep quiet.

It soon became apparent that Chinese brokers had slowly but surely begun to dominate the power corridors in India, virtually kicking out existing European giants like Nokia, Ericsson, Siemens etc. It is an open secret now that most Chinese brokers in India are hawala agents operating in New Delhi, Mumbai and Chennai and whose instant and speedy delivery of strategies along side their ability to please the bureaucracy and sundry politicians outwitted the tactics employed by the European vendors.

Following Huawei, Indian authorities allowed yet another Chinese company, the ZTE, into the telecom sector in 2008. This company, founded in 1985, is a listed company in the Shanghai Stock Exchange and is a strategic partner to many Chinese defense establishments. In fact, a major stake in this company is still controlled by Chinese Government units connected with defense and aero space.

Between the two of them these telecom giants managed to corner plenty of business in the Indian telecom sector. Huawei bagged several contracts in the BSNL’s southern circles, amounting to more than Rs 2000 crore. Given the stiff competition and the Chinese vendors’ cheap pricing policy, private mobile operators too started getting drawn to these companies. It is a well-known fact that the Chinese Government reimburses losses, in the form of subsidy, in several ways, to their companies for bagging international contracts.

Things went largely undisturbed till Indian intelligence agencies were recently alerted by their American and British counterparts about the exact nature of the bugging software/chip hidden inside the Chinese telecom equipment. “The bugging software or chip is now widely known as the Manchurian Micro Chip. This is an advanced, spy software developed by Chinese hackers with the help of the Call-Home Technology. As soon as anyone installs a Chinese equipment, it is reported to its master server in China. That means, at any given time they can infiltrate our network and jam it as and when they wish to. The technology also helps them enter our network and access sensitive data. Still, it took months for our Government to take action and ban them,” say telecom engineers.

The first official international alarm against Chinese telecom operators was sounded in September 2009 by the Australian intelligence agency, Australian Security Intelligence Organisation (ASIO) that officially started investigations into Chinese telecom equipment installed in their country. Following investigations, Huawei was promptly asked to replace all Chinese engineers in Australia and the ASIO ordered the insulation of their network by de-bugging the devilish Manchurian Micro Chip. Predictably, amid allegations pouring thick and fast against this bugging software, Chinese diplomats chose to term the entire matter, “American pulp fiction”. Playing the aggrieved party, they said investigations on Chinese cyber infiltrations worldwide amounted to denial of a level playing field.

Back in India, the Telecom Ministry’s plan to grant a Rs 36,000 crore GSM line tender to Huawei recently was cancelled by the Prime Minister’s Office after security agencies confirmed the presence of bugging software in their equipment. In a shocking move, however, the Telecom Ministry, advocating Huawei’s cause, said that while border areas can be avoided, the company must be allowed access to the rest of the country. Fortunately, on the intervention of the Central Vigilance Commission and the Advisor to Prime Minister on Public Information Infrastructure and Innovations, Sam Pitroda, cancellation of the entire tendering procedure was ordered. Following this, the DoT was compelled by the Home Ministry to remove Chinese companies from the empanelled list of vendors. In fact, the Home Ministry had to put up a strong front against private Indian operators who lobbied heavily for the purchase of Chinese equipment.

Clearly caught on the wrong foot, Huawei and ZTE are now trying to lure the Indian authorities with tall claims about “huge investments” they plan in India. Only hours ahead of Chinese Ambassador Zhang Yan’s meeting with Home Secretary GK Pillai on Thursday, the two companies came out with a press release about their plans — of setting up plants across India that would offer limitless employment opportunities to the Indian youth, of developing areas where proposed plants would be located, and even of setting up technical campuses all over. Whether our political system has the requisite will to resist this Chinese temptation remains to be tested.

Now to return to the more specific issue related to Jairam Ramesh and whether his love for the dragon is really a new-found one. Here, it would help to rewind to UPA I (2006-2009, to be specific) when Ramesh was a junior Minister in the Commerce Ministry, then headed by Kamal Nath. It was this Ministry which facilitated the entry of cheap Chinese mobile handsets in early 2006. These mobiles, with internet connectivity and little known funny brand names, were sold at anything between Rs 3,000 and Rs 6,000 when established companies like Nokia, Sony-Ericsson, and Motorola were selling handsets between Rs 15,000 and Rs 25,000. Why the Chinese were allowed to sell handsets at such throw-away prices, remains an abiding mystery of the telecom industry.

Nonetheless, the unimaginably cheap prices lured the common man adequately, business flourished and, according to industry estimates, around five crore Chinese mobile sets were pumped into India in the space of three years. But clearly, the Chinese should not have been trusted. Three years later Indian authorities found out that these phones were illegal because they were violating basic security norms.

Here is why. Seven years ago, in order to track mobile phones, the International Telecom Union (ITU), had insisted that all manufacturers provide a unique number for each mobile set called the International Mobile Equipment Identity (IMEI) number. Every mobile user can get this 15-17 digit IMEI number by pressing *#06# on his or her handset. According to the ITU, service providers must not provide connection to a mobile phone without this IMEI number because this number helps security agencies track a subscriber.

The question is: Why did the Commerce Ministry under Kamal Nath and his deputy Jairam Ramesh, back in 2006, allow illegal Chinese mobile phones, that clearly violated international standards, into the Indian market? Woken up with a rude shock, Indian intelligence agencies, in a rather delayed intervention, alerted the DoT which then ordered service providers to disconnect all service to Chinese mobile phones operating without the IMEI number. The damage, however, had been done with five crore unaccounted for Chinese handsets already out in the market.

More was to follow. Even as disconnection was ordered, China’s Indian brokers worked out another game plan. Close to six times, the last date for disconnecting services to illegal Chinese mobiles was pushed back, keeping the general public in dark about the developments even as Indian markets remained awash with cheap Chinese mobiles. Intriguingly, the Government did not issue an advertisement or notification in the media about the illegality of the Chinese mobiles. In fact, the ban on providing connection to Chinese mobiles was fully imposed only six months ago. The five crore handsets sold in India are now mere paper-weights, the common man’s hard-earned money, Rs 20,000 crore to be exact, having long found its way to China. Apart from the obvious security compromises made vis-à-vis Chinese telecom companies, this issue too begs attention.

 

[jbond197]

I'm from Singapore you cretin, of course its makes no difference to you as I am Chinese.

Chinese settled in Singapore. Isn't it? Please don't abuse as I can return the favour very easily; after all its internet.

Duhh, like India is a call center for the West too. Unfortunately when a country has sanctions on it it has to develop the technology by hook or crook. Why reinvent the wheel? It China can get the technology and push the price down so be it. Now at least the high speed trains might be of benefit to the whole of Asia. Unfortunately not all countries are rich enough to pay the prices of the Western countries.

Wow, you can only see call centers in India. lol.. regarding Sanctions; sanctions on China were only on defence related and dual-use items, particularly satellites, nuclear technology, and computers etc; not on the technologies for electronic gadgets. West invested in China and they stole their technologies to make cheap replicas and here you are feeling proud of it; What a shame..

All major OEM phones used by big companies are designed by HTC, the new mobile internet devices are designed/developed by Huawei distributed in the UK under vodaphone Pay as you go internet just to cite some examples. Go to UK and you will see

HTC has not designed and developed anything new they just assembled already existing technologies that have penetrated into Chinese market for long. So I will not attribute it to Huwaei in any case. Huawei products are sold in UK and USA for the cheap prices and for your information US, UK, Australia also have similar concerns about the security against Huawei as Indians have. I have shared an article with you please take a look at it.

 

[jbond197]

Thats the beef you have with him, take it up with him. Not me or a country of people

.
Well i was just giving u a reality check as you spoke about Indian's superior attitude that alienates India from its neighbors. Chinese are such a big mouths and it can be seen through out this forum.

Sorry I will not divulge work related data on the internet to some unknown person (who in a professional line would do that?? OMG). Should I also mail you this months debits and credits for my firms account.

Fair enough, don't share anything. But I was wondering that how you reached to the conclusion that they were paid more then their counterparts working with Indian companies.

 

[ChinaChina]

India Is Getting Super Paranoid Regarding Telecom Security
In the name of cyber security and telecom security, India is taking absurd and wrong decisions
Posted by: Gunjan Singh in Best Practices

Topic: Applications
Current Rating: Comments: 0




India although is highly indifferent towards cyber security yet it is super paranoid regarding telecom security. The telecom security regime of India does not exists at all and all India is doing in the name of telecom security is taking peculiar decisions. Whether it is banning Chinese telecom equipments or insisting upon use of weak and ineffective encryption methods by Blackberry, Gmail, Skype etc, India’s decisions are bordering upon ridicule.

While none can deny the security requirements of India yet they must be practical, genuine and pragmatic. Without any authority, norms, regulations and indigenous capabilities, India is indulging in wild goose chase without any actual proof of security breaches.

Till now India’s claims are based upon mere presumptions and conjectures. These paranoid decisions would only affect genuine consumers and users. Simply because criminal elements may use these technologies does not mean that there should be either a blanket ban or common compromise of security of end users.

It would be wise if the department of information technology (DIT) and department of telecommunications (DOT) take the decisions sensibly and rationally. The present decisions are violative of the right to privacy and right to security of end users. There is no sense in making the entire telecommunication system or technology driven services vulnerable to cyber crimes and cyber security attacks.

India Is Getting Super Paranoid Regarding Telecom Security | CIO - Blogs and Discussion