India, Australia and the Rohingyas

[nForce]

We already have enough pole-vaulters here, don't want anymore.

 

[livingdead]

@jamahir @ayesha.a
Is it possible for the Muslim lobby of India to influence India to pressurize Myanmar on Rohingya issue? Are they strong enough to raise their voice?

India has more or less abandoned democracy in myanmar (and ms Aung san). We did a deal with military, that we wont promote any such activity, and junta will help us cleaning up the NE mess.
This was prior to bd help in dealing with ULFA. BTW myanmar-india border has other groups.

So I dont think rohingyas are a pressing issue for India to put any sort of pressure on myanmar. India will not publicly condemn myanmar, but what can be done behind the scene should be done.

 

[doppelganger]

the government

Hardline right wing Hindu nationalist.

whose priorities do not lie in such international affairs.

Especially those involving Muslims.

malaysia is a rich country and indonesia is developed, and there is brunei... maybe they can take for permanency, if prevailed upon by saarc.

Why? What difference is there between Malaysia or Indonesia taking them vs Australia taking them?

Why not Bangladesh? Its eminently workable, funded by generous western funding that keeps rolling in. Why does Bangladesh not open its doors to its own?

 

[jamahir]

Shahrukhan is a sell out, doubt he will raise his voice.

well, at the least, shahrukh is not very diplomatic and speaks his mind... we can only hope that this issue is even in the periphery of his concerns.

Why? What difference is there between Malaysia or Indonesia taking them vs Australia taking them?

one would clearly expect muslim-majority states to take these muslim rohingyas, but one would also ask why are there secret smuggling camps at malaysia border and not open crossings.

Why not Bangladesh? Its eminently workable, funded by generous western funding that keeps rolling in. Why does Bangladesh not open its doors to its own?

@bongbang @Saiful Islam

what is the bangladeshi government and society stand on this??

 

[MarkovChain]

This is the same as with the Palestine issue. All Islamic countries will make a big noise and express pity, some might even send a few million aid to appease their locals, capitalize on people's emotions while at the same time completely ignoring the refugees and treating them like dirt.

 

[bongbang]

My points why should India intervene

Its highly possible USA will intervene in this matter and set up base, which will create problems for both India and China

Its humanitarian issue and as a regional power India should act

Rohingyas were Indian as well, this problem mainly started in British India. Burmese mainly hate Bengali and Indians

what is the bangladeshi government and society stand on this??

Bangladeshi Gov and Civil society also dont care. Only Muslim ummah. Do we care about fighting in syria? And its simply not possible take them in our area. We expect that Myanmar gives them citizenship and stop chaos in our border.

 

[airuah]

What happens to the Ummah...you Muslim countries shout with all your throats?... Why don't the Islamic countries like say Pakistan- the land of pure created for Muslims or the middle eastern oil rich countries that lead the OIC do some thing? Why should everyone always ask India to do some thing?

As Doppelganger pointed out...If India has no right to get Involved in Sri Lanka Tamil crisis then it is the same with Myanmar...

 

[jamahir]

We expect that Myanmar gives them citizenship and stop chaos in our border.

that is the logical conclusion, yes... because otherwise it will be a clear act of ethnic cleansing against which the uno cannot remove itself from acting.

 

[Echo_419]

@jamahir @ayesha.a
Is it possible for the Muslim lobby of India to influence India to pressurize Myanmar on Rohingya issue? Are they strong enough to raise their voice?

Myanmar is a ally & we need them so count us out out of pressuring then

Well the bigger question is why should India intervene in this, why hasn't the other Muslim countries taken any actions other than just accepting the refugees, why haven't they vocally brought this issue into the international forum and tried to force Myanmar to take the rohingyas and give them proper rights. At the end of the day this whole saga would only damage India's interest in the region specially with Myanmar which is a linchpin in taking out NE militants. We must not intervene in this issue more than just advising, there is no point in jeopardizing our NE states and new relationship. Bangladesh and other Muslim nations can take their concerns to China which has much more clout in Myanmar rather than India. We have more than enough problems to deal with.

Exactly we don't need to interface in their affairs

 

[jamahir]

As Doppelganger pointed out...If India has no right to get Involved in Sri Lanka Tamil crisis then it is the same with Myanmar...

My points why should India intervene

the indian permanent representative to uno has recent years spoken out on the libya and syria war ( sadly against the governments there ) and i believe about the ukraine issue...having said that, i would expect only the communist parties of india to voice concern.

What happens to the Ummah...you Muslim countries shout with all your throats?... Why don't the Islamic countries like say Pakistan- the land of pure created for Muslims or the middle eastern oil rich countries that lead the OIC do some thing? Why should everyone always ask India to do some thing?

the ummah was never united on the right issues... in fact, much of the ummah ( the governments ) have been puppets of nato since long.

 

[bongbang]

New Delhi actually interfered in that issue. I dont know if they counted Rohingyas as Indian origin or not?

i would expect only the communist parties of india to voice concern.

Myanmar is a ally & we need them so count us out out of pressuring then

Myanmar's two million stateless people
July 18, 2012 00:34 IST
A report published by the Indian government reveals that about 400,000 people of Indian origin have no official recognition in Myanmar, they have limited or no access to education, employment and healthcare, reports Venessa Parekh.


Even as the world smiles benignly at the democratic opening up of Myanmar and the extended foreign tour of its leader of the Opposition, Aung San SuuKyi, the country's complex domestic dynamic, hidden for years, has surfaced. The spill over of the sectarian violence that began in early June has simultaneously exposed the difficulties of democratisation and the plight of Myanmar's many underprivileged ethnic minorities.


The clashes between Myanmar's majority Buddhist population -- backed by the border security force, the Nasaka -- and the 8,00,000-strong Rohingya Muslim community, locally referred to as Bengalis, highlights the issue. The violence is the culmination of nearly half a century of government-sanctioned discrimination against the Rohingyas who are not accepted or recognised as Myanmarese citizens. They aren't the only ones. Almost never discussed is the plight of third and fourth generation Indian and Chinese immigrants who have lived in Myanmar for decades but like the Rohingyas, are considered illegal settlers.

There are two separate groups of minorities vying for recognition in Myanmar. One is composed of numerous ethnic minorities, such as the Karen, whose allegiance to the state, not their nationality, is in question. Frequent military reprisals have caused large sections of this group to flee to Thailand over the years, where they have settled in camps along the border. The second group comprises those who have lived in Myanmar for generations but are simply not recognised as citizens -- like the Rohingya Muslims, and those of Indian and Chinese origin.

Both the Indians and Chinese have been in Myanmar for at least a century. Indians, in particular came after the first Anglo-Burmese War in 1824-26, encouraged by the British Empire to relocate from Bengal, Bihar and South India to Myanmar in an attempt to develop the country. Persons of Indian descent came to dominate the Myanmarese economy as traders, civil servants, merchants, river pilots, soldiers, indentured labourers and moneylenders.


Financial prosperity combined with high positions in the British bureaucracy and their role as money-lenders made the community a target of Burmese nationalist sentiment.


Once independence was achieved, however, the British left Myanmar without making provisions for the grant of official citizenship to these migrants. Latent tensions intensified by the racial and religious differences between the communities -- the Indians were dark-skinned and continued to practice Hinduism or Islam in Buddhist Myanmar -- making intermarriage and communal mingling rare.


The military coup in 1962, led by General Ne Win, and his 'Burmanisation' policy, completely destroyed the already precarious balance between the different communities. The economy was overhauled, Indian and Chinese businesses and trade contracts were rescinded, and the Indian-majority Cabinet was dissolved. Although they had lived in Myanmar for many generations and had no connections with their original societies, approximately 100,000 Chinese and 300,000 Indians were forced out of Myanmar. Those left behind were the poorer immigrant groups, without the wherewithal to flee or start over again.

In 1982, a new Citizenship Act was passed, dividing Myanmarese into three categories. Naturalised citizenship would only be granted to those who could furnish "conclusive evidence" of entry and residence in Myanmar prior to the British annexation, those who were proficient in one of the national languages, and whose children were born in the country. Although many minorities fulfil these requirements, hardly any can supply documentary proof, partly as a result of decades of exclusionary policies and practices.


Consequently, there are over two million stateless persons scattered in villages and rural areas across Myanmar. A 2000 report published by the Indian government reveals that about 400,000 are of Indian origin. Without official recognition, they have limited or no access to education, employment and healthcare, and their right to travel, marriage, reproduction and communication is severely restricted.


Opposition leader Aung San SuuKyi recently promised Myanmarese citizenship to refugee groups in Thailand. But when asked about the Rohingya, she replied that she "didn't know" whether or not they belong to the country – an ambiguous position representative of the Myanmarese majority's indifference to its stateless. Last week, Naypyidaw issued a statement categorically refusing to recognise the Rohingyas as citizens. This official disregard cements the animosity between Myanmarese minorities and the majority.


Breaking the stalemate is vital to the democratic process in Myanmar, and to give the government credibility. The country is planning social and political reform, and has just opened its markets to foreign investors and companies. This is the moment for Myanmar to begin rehabilitating its minorities, and for its neighbouring countries to help advance such an endeavour.


The initial impetus for the acknowledgement of its citizens must of course come from within Myanmar itself. Naypyidaw, supported by Suu Kyi's National League for Democracy party, should reformulate immigration laws, make provisions for the settlement of these groups, and grant them all the rights that come with citizenship. Given the history of the stateless in Myanmar, as well as the significance of this new phase of co-operation and dialogue among the neighbour nations, the process of rehabilitation can become a joint initiative between the South and Southeast Asian countries.


India has already launched infrastructure projects to facilitate greater connectivity between its North East and Myanmar; bilateral trade is estimated to double by 2015 to $3 billion. As these agreements are negotiated, and cross-border activity picks up, the potential for conflict will grow. In the past, New Delhi has discreetly discussed the minority issue with Myanmar and successfully gained citizenship for approximately 20,000 stateless persons of Indian descent. India must use its increased business investment in Myanmar to press for equality for the rest.


China already has a large economic presence in Myanmar – and its profile is sure to increase over the coming years. India and China can together use the invitation they have to participate in Myanmar's rejuvenation, to nudge the process forward with some quiet but effective diplomacy.

Myanmar's two million stateless people - Rediff.com India News

 

[jamahir]

bongbang, thanks for the primer about the overall issue in burma.

Without official recognition, they have limited or no access to education, employment and healthcare, and their right to travel, marriage, reproduction and communication is severely restricted.

this is clearly decades of oppression by the burmese establishment.

Opposition leader Aung San SuuKyi recently promised Myanmarese citizenship to refugee groups in Thailand. But when asked about the Rohingya, she replied that she "didn't know" whether or not they belong to the country – an ambiguous position representative of the Myanmarese majority's indifference to its stateless.

so the usa-government-promoted "icon of democracy" has only a narrow or limited range of activism... but then, puppets like her are not owners of their own mind.

New Delhi has discreetly discussed the minority issue with Myanmar and successfully gained citizenship for approximately 20,000 stateless persons of Indian descent. India must use its increased business investment in Myanmar to press for equality for the rest.

20,000 indian origin and remaining are 400,000... but i don't see why burma establishment should discriminate against these people.

i believe that some of the karen people in burma have been trained and armed by cia as part of countering prc influence in burma... why did cia not train the rohingyas??

 

[bongbang]

why did cia not train the rohingyas??

Right now we dont have good influence of USA in BD. If BNP Jamaat was in power it could be possible. ISI, CIA, Chinese all were active before.

 

[gslv]

We have nothing to do with these rohingya ppl , they can go to elsewhere , we are not that rich and we dont want more ppl here who can create terrorist problems , they can live or leave but not to India , not our problem . sayonara.
we should set up surveillance ships in our bay of bengal to return these rohingya ppl. let the ummah help them ,
not dharmic --- NOT WELCOME. these ppl will breed like rabbit and create law and order problem.

 

[jamahir]

Right now we dont have good influence of USA in BD. If BNP Jamaat was in power it could be possible. ISI, CIA, Chinese all were active before.

my point was not that.

i was wondering about the double standards of usa government... while it speaks for "democracy" in burma and arms karen rebels, there is no angelina jolie and amal clooney speaking for the rohingya refugees like they have been speaking for syrian refugees.

and i wouldn't want jamaat to govern bd, just like i wouldn't want ji in pakistan or bjp in india or the ikhwaan in egypt etc.

We have nothing to do with these rohingya ppl , they can go to elsewhere , we are not that rich and we dont want more ppl here who can create terrorist problems , they can live or leave but not to India , not our problem . sayonara.

why not just say "they can live or die, not our problem"??