India and US may co-develop basic trainer for IAF under DTTI

[MULUBJA]

India and US may co-develop basic trainer for IAF under DTTI
PublishedJune 2, 2015|Byadmin
SOURCE: ECONOMIC TIMES

On his first tour to India as US Defence Secretary, Ashton Carter is making it a point to start with a visit to the Visakhapatnam based Eastern Naval Command that is tasked to maintain Indian presence in the South China sea region and the Strait of Malacca.
In what is seen as a result-oriented visit, India and US will not only sign a new defence cooperation agreement to take ahead from a 2005 pact but are also set to explore the possibilities of cooperating in the development of missile defence systems and take forward proposals for joint development of military equipment.
Carter, who is coming to India after a stopover in Vietnam following the Shangri La dialogue, is meeting the top Indian leadership, including PM Narendra Modi. Officials say that the new 10-year defence framework agreement being signed during the visit will contain a specific reference to the Defense Technology & Trade Initiative ( DTTI) that seeks to co-develop defence systems.
Among the proposals expected from Washington is the possibility for cooperation in the development of a new basic trainer for the Indian Air Force. The Defence Ministry has already tasked HAL to develop a new turboprop trainer aircraft to meet the requirement of close to 100 planes needed by the air force and US is expected to offer assistance in the program. A possibility being looked at is assisting HAL to develop a new aircraft on the lines of the Hawker Beechcraft T 6 Texan II trainer.
Besides, the two sides will explore possible cooperation in the advanced field of missile defence systems.While India is developing an indigenous missile shield, the last two tests have not been successful. The US has offered assistance in the missile defence system in the past too but given the recent upswing in relations, more concrete talks are expected during the visit. Discussions will also take place on increasing capabilities to prevent the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction (WMD).

 

[Manindra]

Wow, this is the pinnacle of technology we need but wait what would happen to pilatus & HTT-40

Its irony that US itself use swiss basic trainer.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Wow, this is the pinnacle of technology we need but wait what would happen to pilatus & HTT-40

Its irony that US itself use swiss basic trainer.

Aw, well..... they could consider co-producing remote-controlled kites too.

 

[desimorty]

The texan is really good aircraft, and used in Afghanistan to bomb taliban.

 

[Bilal9]

India and US may co-develop basic trainer for IAF under DTTI
PublishedJune 2, 2015|Byadmin
SOURCE: ECONOMIC TIMES

On his first tour to India as US Defence Secretary, Ashton Carter is making it a point to start with a visit to the Visakhapatnam based Eastern Naval Command that is tasked to maintain Indian presence in the South China sea region and the Strait of Malacca.
In what is seen as a result-oriented visit, India and US will not only sign a new defence cooperation agreement to take ahead from a 2005 pact but are also set to explore the possibilities of cooperating in the development of missile defence systems and take forward proposals for joint development of military equipment.
Carter, who is coming to India after a stopover in Vietnam following the Shangri La dialogue, is meeting the top Indian leadership, including PM Narendra Modi. Officials say that the new 10-year defence framework agreement being signed during the visit will contain a specific reference to the Defense Technology & Trade Initiative ( DTTI) that seeks to co-develop defence systems.
Among the proposals expected from Washington is the possibility for cooperation in the development of a new basic trainer for the Indian Air Force. The Defence Ministry has already tasked HAL to develop a new turboprop trainer aircraft to meet the requirement of close to 100 planes needed by the air force and US is expected to offer assistance in the program. A possibility being looked at is assisting HAL to develop a new aircraft on the lines of the Hawker Beechcraft T 6 Texan II trainer.
Besides, the two sides will explore possible cooperation in the advanced field of missile defence systems.While India is developing an indigenous missile shield, the last two tests have not been successful. The US has offered assistance in the missile defence system in the past too but given the recent upswing in relations, more concrete talks are expected during the visit. Discussions will also take place on increasing capabilities to prevent the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction (WMD).

• The most advanced contender for this trainer requirement (unmentioned) is the Brazilian Embraer 314 Super Tucano. There are other counter insurgency (COIN) variants of the Super Tucano as well such as the AT-29.

• The Hawker Beechcraft T 6 Texan II (pictured above) is a re-badged Americanized version of the Swiss Pilatus PC-9, whose airframe is about twenty years older technology compared to the Tucano (the predecessor for the Super Tucano). Plus American technology for a basic trainer such as this is overkill because it is too expensive. Unless Indian AF wants the same advanced systems required by basic air curriculum such as the US.

• The super tucano is way more refined as far as design. I am a fan of Embraer aircraft - their designs are very sleek and perform well, whether civilian or military. Engines are the same reliable PT-6 turboprop variants

• Brazilian planes are cheaper to make and ToT is easier and more appropriate for countries such as India.

• Safety of Trainees can be assured by fitting Martin Baker ejections seats on the Super Tucano. Very Important.

• What is the commonality of a Hawker Beechcraft T 6 Texan II platform with the next step up, which is the AJT (BAe Hawk 128)? The Tucano and Super Tucano is also made in the UK by shorts aircraft and are used as basic trainers prior to pilots stepping up to Royal Air Force AJT's such as the BAe Hawk.

• One can fit sidewinders to the Super Tucano for missile training (see below).

• The Korean KT-1 'woongbi' is a copy of the PC-9 more or less. The experience of Korean aviation industry is even lesser than that of India. So far they have only exported a few of these to Indonesia I believe.

• Turkey also makes a basic trainer but the situation is same as Korea above.

• India is well-capable to develop something like this by themselves. They can jump start their new program by getting ToT from Embraer for the Super Tucano.

 

[Manindra]

The texan is really good aircraft, and used in Afghanistan to bomb taliban.

And we are Afghanistan and Taliban run here and there on our road.

Aw, well..... they could consider co-producing remote-controlled kites too.

After some day we could hear joint development of canopy of LCA

 

[maxpayne]

How abt a Chinese trainer

 

[kurup]

How abt a Chinese trainer

Sorry ... we are only looking for quality products .

 

[desimorty]

And we are Afghanistan and Taliban run here and there on our road.

No but the united states uses it to train their pilots on bomb runs early on just as we can before they get an actual supersonic fighter.

 

[surya kiran]

HAL should go drown itself if the Americans need to help us for a basic trainer.

 

[Bilal9]

HAL should go drown itself if the Americans need to help us for a basic trainer.

Unless I am off-track, this could be the first time the Indian AF is looking to design or co-produce a turboprop trainer like the Tucano or PC-9. This is replacing the HPT-32 in IAF which AFAIK is a piston-engine trainer. Comparing the HPT-32 to these types is comparing an Ambassador taxi to a Ferrari. Two different categories.

That said - I agree that the design and testing of such an aircraft is relatively easy for HAL.

In any case - in spite of the better judgment of experts in India and elsewhere, the IAF will most likely end up choosing the PC-9. IAF already operates the lesser capable PC-7 Mark II (35 delivered and 40 more on order).

Basic trainers (which sometimes add a COIN role in smaller air-forces) have equally important tasks as their jet sisters in air-forces. One should not look down at these as less capable because filling COIN or basic training roles with jets is a waste of money.

The A-29 Tucano shown above was developed especially to perform COIN and Anti-narcotics tasks in South American jungles. It can carry potent machine-gun pods and missiles on wing-hard-points and is slow enough to be a stable gunnery platform a la the A-10 warthog.

 

[Manindra]

No but the united states uses it to train their pilots on bomb runs early on just as we can before they get an actual supersonic fighter.

Same can be done by HTT-40 as HAL already says that it would be armed .
So what the need of US derivative of Swiss PC-7 trainer ?

 

[desimorty]

Same can be done by HTT-40 as HAL already says that it would be armed .
So what the need of US derivative of Swiss PC-7 trainer ?

Whats the point of developing a trainer, based on foreign engine or local to meet safety requirements which would take years, instead of getting a a trainer that we can produce locally already economical? If local production is available, India should take it, if not then RnD it. Is this not the reason why India RnD tanks/missiles/aircraft?

 

[Manindra]

Whats the point of developing a trainer, based on foreign engine or local to meet safety requirements which would take years, instead of getting a a trainer that we can produce locally already economical? If local production is available, India should take it, if not then RnD it. Is this not the reason why India RnD tanks/missiles/aircraft?

Is trainer is some critidcal technology ?
The trainer we purchase would be also have all foreign critical parts & manufacture here under licence.
Then why not design our own trainer & locally produce critical parts under licence & save the cost we ended up paying as royalty.
Btw , HTT-40 is not our first locally designed basic trainer.

 

[ghauri05]

I think from now onward,Uncle SAM will be Co-Developing every thing for India to materialize "Make in INDIA" Dream!!!