India and US face tough negotiations on CISMOA, now called COMCASA

[VivasvatManu]

Like I said, business as usual.

We've been contained on all sides by both enemy superpowers (USA and USSR) and their vassals for the past half century. Not just during the Cold War either. It's nothing particularly new or concerning, just the same as before.

It doesn't have to be.

Rather than blame others all the time, it is sensible to take a deep look at what you have been doing wrong.

Its a new world order forming and China needs to open itself up to more unconventional relationships with its Neighbours. Display Maturity to have a few non Traditional friends.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

It doesn't have to be.

Rather than blame others all the time, it is sensible to take a deep look at what you have been doing wrong.

Its a new world order forming and China needs to open itself up to more unconventional relationships with its Neighbours. Display Maturity to have a few non Traditional friends.

I don't blame others at all.

It was China's own fault for being so weak in the past two centuries.

When you are weak, the vultures will come. Their names will change but they are all essentially the same thing, opportunists.

 

[VivasvatManu]

I don't blame others at all.

It was China's own fault for being so weak in the past two centuries.

When you are weak, the vultures will come. Their names will change but they are all essentially the same thing, opportunists.

Name calling is hardly mature.

China chose to be friends with the US to tackle USSR, it then chose to be friends with Russia to tackle US.

It chose to be friends with North Korea to tackle south korea.

it chose to be friends with pakistan to tackle India.

You are a victim of your own making.

No amount of brute strength can compensate for the gains of a gentle touch. Your lack of internal democracy stifles the growth of mature political thinking so you seek to Imitate.

You have attempted to imitate the US without having any of the strengths of the US and then you blame others for your failures.

I say this as a statement of fact, not with any intention of insulting china. I applaud china's success in education and social equity and financial achievement.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Name calling is hardly mature.

China chose to be friends with the US to tackle USSR, it then chose to be friends with Russia to tackle US.

It chose to be friends with North Korea to tackle south korea.

it chose to be friends with pakistan to tackle India.

You are a victim of your own making.

No amount of brute strength can compensate for the gains of a gentle touch. Your lack of internal democracy stifles the growth of mature political thinking so you seek to Imitate.

You have attempted to imitate the US without having any of the strengths of the US and then you blame others for your failures.

I say this as a statement of fact, not with any intention of insulting china. I applaud china's success in education and social equity and financial achievement.

Except I wasn't blaming anyone else?

In my last post I said all of China's misfortunes were our own fault for being so weak in the past two centuries.

We are our own worst enemy, this has always been the case.

 

[VivasvatManu]

Except I wasn't blaming anyone else?

In my last post I said all of China's misfortunes were our own fault for being so weak in the past two centuries.

We are our own worst enemy, this has always been the case.

You called them vultures.

Vultures prey on the dead, most would prefer a rich an prosperous china as a friend and a trading partner.

All china has to do is show the world it has the confidence to be friends with the world. Stand up for common values and let evolution take its natural course.

The world has outgrown 18th century military expansionist phase. In my view, China needs to understand this.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You called them vultures.

Vultures prey on the dead, most would prefer a rich an prosperous china as a friend and a trading partner.

All china has to do is show the world it has the confidence to be friends with the world. Stand up for common values and let evolution take its natural course.

The world has outgrown 18th century military expansionist phase. In my view, China needs to understand this.

Isn't that what we are doing right now?

We haven't fought a war for the past three decades. No bloodshed in any of our borders, including the South China Sea.

Whereas America invaded three countries in the past decade alone? With over a million dead civilians in the Iraq War alone?

 

[footmarks]

Isn't that what we are doing right now?

We haven't fought a war for the past three decades. No bloodshed in any of our borders, including the South China Sea.

Whereas America invaded three countries in the past decade alone? With over a million dead civilians in the Iraq War alone?

US is already a super power, China is going to be one. And as China grows stronger, it is increasing its hostility among neighboring countries. Having seen the perils of having super power(s), world is understandably worried. It is for China to ensure that friendly relations are built, maintained and nurtured.

 

[VivasvatManu]

Isn't that what we are doing right now?

We haven't fought a war for the past three decades. No bloodshed in any of our borders, including the South China Sea.

Whereas America invaded three countries in the past decade alone? With over a million dead civilians in the Iraq War alone?

Yes, which is why I respect China and would prefer to have China as a friend.

I just found this in the PM's twitter account during his recent G20 China visit.

https://twitter.com/x/status/772312398996746241

https://twitter.com/x/status/772313058018406400

https://twitter.com/x/status/772313165237325824

https://twitter.com/x/status/772308782411976705

 

[zebra7]

I don't have the habit of feeding the trolls but I think I must correct you if incase your intention is good.

Firstly, you keep talking about sovereignty on every thread and it gets really boring. Do you actually know what sovereignty means? Only a fool would think a country's sovereignty is lost by something like LEMOA. If u had spent a fraction of the time you spend on trolling here to actually read about the agreement, you could save time of yours aswellas everyone going through the same trash u end up repeating over every post.



Pakistan is a signatory to LSA, BECA and CISMOA, which according to your logic is a million times messed up than with India. You are being a fool, not realizing that LEMOA is an extraction of LSA. LSA is the original agreement all allies sign up for. So congrats, you have only insulted your all weather friend saying signing LSA with USA means no sovereignty. You thought Pakistan is operating F-16 and Cobras without signing these documents? Doesn't it actually prove that you lack the knowledge to contribute meaningfully in this topic? If you still wanna troll, go ahead.

Oh btw, you should google about Shamsi Airbase, Pakistan was even hosting a drone base of CIA. If american assets can bomb whoever they want in a country, that is where the sovereignty is lost my friend. Surprisingly, other LSA signatory countries never complain of that happening in their country. Maybe you should find out why?



If the present government continues for another term, a watered down version of CISMOA will be signed for sure from my understanding. But if you compare LSA and LEMOA text, I won't be really concerned about COMCASA.



US will need Indian bases only if they end up in a war with China, and if the present momentum of China/India friction continues, India might not hesitate to assist US. This is not because of any obligation to the agreement, but because the relationship with China is only getting worse by worse everyday and the peoples sentiment is not very different.

P.S: In the current economic condition, we are more likely to war with Aliens than with each other.

Disclaimer: No intention to hurt the feelings of dear Pakistani members or anyone, only had to clear this misconception of LEMOA due to repetition of same trash on every thread by our Chinese friend.


Good Day to all the lovely people of PDF!

Bhai Ji tum ne to Es Troll PDF tanki ki band Baja di.

How does having the US military operating out of Indian soil not constitute "interference from outside sources or bodies"? Like I said, if America refuses to leave India during wartime, India can't do a SINGLE thing about it. Not a single Indian weapon system can reach American shores, they could pound you into oblivion and you couldn't even scratch the American mainland.

You have become a vassal state. No longer an independent or sovereign power.

Did you fail to read the sentence -- On case to case basis.

Ok PDF think tank tell me without signing any pact with the US, India did also assisted US fighter jets by giving them fuel during Operation Desert Storm -- So what is the big deal in signing the LEMOA.

 

[VivasvatManu]

OTOH, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar has revealed something too.

https://twitter.com/x/status/772121915821391872

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Americans are masters of the art of war indeed, not only did they get you to give up your sovereignty, but they also convinced you that you somehow "won", when even Pakistan outright refused to sign the LEMOA because they didn't want to give up their sovereignty.



Hmm that's exactly what you guys said about the LEMOA as well.



Uh do you really think that if a war breaks out, you can ask the US military to leave? They will just laugh in your face. Not a single Indian weapon system has the range to reach American shores, there is nothing you can do if they refuse to leave.

Lol. Do u know the original agreement name is LSA? LEMOA is Indian version of the bill..

Only an English fool will mess up the difference btw operating and logistics.

Seriously comparing Pakistan with us? Pakistan sold its soverignity to Americans long back, and now sold themselves to China. So much for cheerleading with them.

Operating means having an constant number of personnels or vessels in Indian bases, which is not the cases here. If you want to troll, continue to do so.

 

[Dash]

Business standard s a known US mouthpiece. We are perfectly fine without it as of now.

And what is this GPS BS. he must know that we use IRNSS.

 

[VivasvatManu]

Behind the scene actions.

https://twitter.com/x/status/773172143190179840

 

[wiseone2]

Isn't that what we are doing right now?

We haven't fought a war for the past three decades. No bloodshed in any of our borders, including the South China Sea.

Whereas America invaded three countries in the past decade alone? With over a million dead civilians in the Iraq War alone?

Which three countries did America invade ? Afghanistan asked for trouble by allowing Bin laden to strike America.
America blundered on the Iraq war.

there are no angels in that part of the world.

China has been peaceful in the past three decades. It would be help if you had a transparent form of government. Your neighbors might be less apprehensive.

 

[Armani]

The Chinese member is nuts and is on a mission to somehow convince everyone (including himself) that the LEMOA allows for basing of US forces in India.

It is a logistics agreement which facilities US military assets/personnel to land/dock, refuel & possibly repair their assets, before proceeding on their original mission, whatever that may be. The mission at hand may be a joint combat exercise with Indian forces, or merely a stopover while going somewhere else - as is usually the case with warships.

It also allows for Indian assets to have better procedures in place while visiting US or any US-operated base in the neighborhood - provided the host country of that base also agrees. The most likely candidate would be Japan.

Provision for any kind of "basing" of US military, on either a temporary or permanent basis, is clearly NOT included in the agreement.

We've had similar agreements in place with the erstwhile USSR (who's nuclear submarines & warships used to call at Indian yards on an almost routine basis in the 70s and 80s), and I'm pretty sure such a practice continues with Russia today. It just does not have a fancy name like LEMOA, that's all.

I used to think Chinese-Dragon was one of the more knowledgeable members on the forum but on this thread, he's clearly got an acute case of dementia.