India and US face tough negotiations on CISMOA, now called COMCASA

[R!CK]

Americans are masters of the art of war indeed, not only did they get you to give up your sovereignty, but they also convinced you that you somehow "won"

I don't have the habit of feeding the trolls but I think I must correct you if incase your intention is good.

Firstly, you keep talking about sovereignty on every thread and it gets really boring. Do you actually know what sovereignty means? Only a fool would think a country's sovereignty is lost by something like LEMOA. If u had spent a fraction of the time you spend on trolling here to actually read about the agreement, you could save time of yours aswellas everyone going through the same trash u end up repeating over every post.

when even Pakistan outright refused to sign the LEMOA because they didn't want to give up their sovereignty.
.

Pakistan is a signatory to LSA, BECA and CISMOA, which according to your logic is a million times messed up than with India. You are being a fool, not realizing that LEMOA is an extraction of LSA. LSA is the original agreement all allies sign up for. So congrats, you have only insulted your all weather friend saying signing LSA with USA means no sovereignty. You thought Pakistan is operating F-16 and Cobras without signing these documents? Doesn't it actually prove that you lack the knowledge to contribute meaningfully in this topic? If you still wanna troll, go ahead.

Oh btw, you should google about Shamsi Airbase, Pakistan was even hosting a drone base of CIA. If american assets can bomb whoever they want in a country, that is where the sovereignty is lost my friend. Surprisingly, other LSA signatory countries never complain of that happening in their country. Maybe you should find out why?

Hmm that's exactly what you guys said about the LEMOA as well.

If the present government continues for another term, a watered down version of CISMOA will be signed for sure from my understanding. But if you compare LSA and LEMOA text, I won't be really concerned about COMCASA.

Uh do you really think that if a war breaks out, you can ask the US military to leave? They will just laugh in your face. Not a single Indian weapon system has the range to reach American shores, there is nothing you can do if they refuse to leave.

US will need Indian bases only if they end up in a war with China, and if the present momentum of China/India friction continues, India might not hesitate to assist US. This is not because of any obligation to the agreement, but because the relationship with China is only getting worse by worse everyday and the peoples sentiment is not very different.

P.S: In the current economic condition, we are more likely to war with Aliens than with each other.

Disclaimer: No intention to hurt the feelings of dear Pakistani members or anyone, only had to clear this misconception of LEMOA due to repetition of same trash on every thread by our Chinese friend.


Good Day to all the lovely people of PDF!

 

[Kinetic]

So far India has opted for less secure, costlier, commercially available radio kits, rather than signing CISMOA.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/india-an...smoa-now-called-comcasa.447855/#ixzz4JRZ7KNGm

Not true India uses its own secure radios developed by DRDO.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I don't have the habit of feeding the trolls but I think I must correct you if incase your intention is good.

Firstly, you keep talking about sovereignty on every thread and it gets really boring. Do you actually know what sovereignty means? Only a fool would think a country's sovereignty is lost by something like LEMOA. If u had spent a fraction of the time you spend on trolling here to actually read about the agreement, you could save time of yours aswellas everyone going through the same trash u end up repeating over every post.



Pakistan is a signatory to LSA, BECA and CISMOA, which according to your logic is a million times messed up than with India. You are being a fool, not realizing that LEMOA is an extraction of LSA. LSA is the original agreement all allies sign up for. So congrats, you have only insulted your all weather friend saying signing LSA with USA means no sovereignty. You thought Pakistan is operating F-16 and Cobras without signing these documents? Doesn't it actually prove that you lack the knowledge to contribute meaningfully in this topic? If you still wanna troll, go ahead.

Oh btw, you should google about Shamsi Airbase, Pakistan was even hosting a drone base of CIA. If american assets can bomb whoever they want in a country, that is where the sovereignty is lost my friend. Surprisingly, other LSA signatory countries never complain of that happening in their country. Maybe you should find out why?



If the present government continues for another term, a watered down version of CISMOA will be signed for sure from my understanding. But if you compare LSA and LEMOA text, I won't be really concerned about COMCASA.



US will need Indian bases only if they end up in a war with China, and if the present momentum of China/India friction continues, India might not hesitate to assist US. This is not because of any obligation to the agreement, but because the relationship with China is only getting worse by worse everyday and the peoples sentiment is not very different.

P.S: In the current economic condition, we are more likely to war with Aliens than with each other.

Disclaimer: No intention to hurt the feelings of dear Pakistani members or anyone, only had to clear this misconception of LEMOA due to repetition of same trash on every thread by our Chinese friend.


Good Day to all the lovely people of PDF!

As expected, Indian members are going full blast trying to explain why allowing the US military to operate out of Indian bases on Indian soil is not selling their sovereignty. (Even though they accused Pakistan for the same).

Do you even understand what the word sovereignty means?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty

Sovereignty is understood in jurisprudence as the full right and power of a governing body to govern itself without any interference from outside sources or bodies.

How does having the US military operating out of Indian soil not constitute "interference from outside sources or bodies"? Like I said, if America refuses to leave India during wartime, India can't do a SINGLE thing about it. Not a single Indian weapon system can reach American shores, they could pound you into oblivion and you couldn't even scratch the American mainland.

You have become a vassal state. No longer an independent or sovereign power.

 

[posedion]

As expected, Indian members are going full blast trying to explain why allowing the US military to operate out of Indian bases on Indian soil is not selling their sovereignty. (Even though they accused Pakistan for the same).

Do you even understand what the word sovereignty means?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty



How does having the US military operating out of Indian soil not constitute "interference from outside sources or bodies"? Like I said, if America refuses to leave India during wartime, India can't do a SINGLE thing about it. Not a single Indian weapon system can reach American shores, they could pound you into oblivion and you couldn't even scratch the American mainland.

You have become a vassal state. No longer an independent or sovereign power.

when certain things burn their odor is quite obvious we don't need lessons of sovereignty or freedom from funny commies surely not

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

when certain things burn their odor is quite obvious we don't need lessons of sovereignty or freedom from funny commies surely not

As I've said many times before, I think Communism is one of the stupidest ideologies to have ever existed in human history. And I think Karl Marx was high on drugs when he wrote Das Kapital.

Now how does your argument hold up?

 

[IndoUS]

Interesting, wonder how much watered down this one would be. We already have supplemented our own communication systems in place for the US one so not sure what is there to add or change.

 

[Indrajit]

As I've said many times before, I think Communism is one of the stupidest ideologies to have ever existed in human history. And I think Karl Marx was high on drugs when he wrote Das Kapital.

You know, the real funny part is that communism was not a crazy idea & Karl Marx was plenty smart. The problem lies in human nature, that idea is like Yeltsin once put it - a pie in the sky. Not something that's implementable on earth.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You know, the real funny part is that communism was not a crazy idea & Karl Marx was plenty smart. The problem lies in human nature, that idea is like Yeltsin once put it - a pie in the sky. Not something that's implementable on earth.

If it's not implementable on Earth then it's a pretty dumb system isn't it?

Communism basically failed catastrophically for half a century, then died miserably in 1991. And good riddance to it.

I think it was even worse than any kind of religious extremism.

 

[Indrajit]

If it's not implementable on Earth then it's a pretty dumb system isn't it?

Yup. As a system, yes but as an idea, no.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Disclaimer: No intention to hurt the feelings of dear Pakistani members or anyone, only had to clear this misconception of LEMOA due to repetition of same trash on every thread by our Chinese friend.


Good Day to all the lovely people of PDF!

Hey man, I actually think India made the right move.

As long as you assume Indian sovereignty is worth zero, then it's a fantastic deal.

I figure that most people in the world consider their national sovereignty to be worth something though.

 

[VivasvatManu]

Hey man, I actually think India made the right move.

As long as you assume Indian sovereignty is worth zero, then it's a fantastic deal.

I figure that most people in the world consider their national sovereignty to be worth something though.

LOL.....you got him there.

But on a more serious note, you should know that all your protest cannot undo the logistic agreement and the fact that soon Indian Navy will soon be operation in the SCS.

If China continues to keep pushing India then the next few years will only strengthen US presence in SCS.

So what does wisdom dictate ?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

LOL.....you got him there.

But on a more serious note, you should know that all your protest cannot undo the logistic agreement and the fact that soon Indian Navy will soon be operation in the SCS.

If China continues to keep pushing India then the next few years will only strengthen US presence in SCS.

So what does wisdom dictate ?

Wisdom dictates that we continue the same path, i.e. building our capabilities.

We are the ones gaining the most relative power during peacetime, so we have no interest in firing the first shot. We will leave that to India, just like before:

India pleaded for US help against China in 1962 - Times of India

I guess they should have learned from before, and from the Philippines in 2012, and from the Ukraine in 2014... America never comes to rescue their pawns.

Not even if they are bound by a full mutual defence treaty like with the Philippines, as seen when China forcibly seized territory from the Philippines in 2012, and America not only abandoned their mutual defence treaty, but refused to sanction China for even $0.01.

Not even $0.01, that's how much America thinks their pawns are worth. They threw more of a fuss when China seized Aksai Chin from India. And that still wasn't worth a cent to them.

 

[posedion]

As I've said many times before, I think Communism is one of the stupidest ideologies to have ever existed in human history. And I think Karl Marx was high on drugs when he wrote Das Kapital.

Now how does your argument hold up?

So jokers not entertained here, work your own we work our strategic interests

 

[wiseone2]

LOL these were the same arguments made regarding LEMOA, yet it was still signed.

I see no issues with LEMOA. It is a peace time agreement on logistics

Wisdom dictates that we continue the same path, i.e. building our capabilities.

We are the ones gaining the most relative power during peacetime, so we have no interest in firing the first shot. We will leave that to India, just like before:

India pleaded for US help against China in 1962 - Times of India

I guess they should have learned from before, and from the Philippines in 2012, and from the Ukraine in 2014... America never comes to rescue their pawns.

Not even if they are bound by a full mutual defence treaty like with the Philippines, as seen when China forcibly seized territory from the Philippines in 2012, and America not only abandoned their mutual defence treaty, but refused to sanction China for even $0.01.

Not even $0.01, that's how much America thinks their pawns are worth. They threw more of a fuss when China seized Aksai Chin from India. And that still wasn't worth a cent to them.

Ukraine and Philippines have peanuts for militaries

As expected, Indian members are going full blast trying to explain why allowing the US military to operate out of Indian bases on Indian soil is not selling their sovereignty. (Even though they accused Pakistan for the same).

Do you even understand what the word sovereignty means?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty



How does having the US military operating out of Indian soil not constitute "interference from outside sources or bodies"? Like I said, if America refuses to leave India during wartime, India can't do a SINGLE thing about it. Not a single Indian weapon system can reach American shores, they could pound you into oblivion and you couldn't even scratch the American mainland.

You have become a vassal state. No longer an independent or sovereign power.

How can America operate in India without Indian consent ? They can declare war on us.

Something tells me that China is concerned about India-USA military relationship. It should be a good incentive to behave well.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Ukraine and Philippines have peanuts for militaries

India is the same as the Ukraine and the Philippines, they all depended on their master to save them, but they were abandoned (even despite having mutual defence treaties with the USA).

The Philippines lost Scarborough Shoal to China in 2012.

The Ukraine lost Crimea to Russia in 2014.

But India suffered the largest territorial loss, the entirety of Aksai Chin was lost to China, despite America's support in 1962.

And yet America was not willing to even sanction China for even $0.01. That's how much they think their pawns are worth.