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India and Pakistan - A tale of two economies( Indian Visitor in Pakistan )

Yep the Pakistani v Indian economic story reminds me of the hare and the Tortoise tale. Currently the Pakistani hare is still sitting on the roadside catching his breath.
indira nearly killed our republic... people forgive her for winning a war but her prime ministership saw breaking down of institutions... the whole machinery including the press and judiciary became her servant... the center was dictating states like a bully... and she does not have anything to show on economic side... except some pro-poor rhetoric.
 
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I don't subscribe to the "Generals" are incapable of running countries and it takes certain background to be a successful leader. Human beings are complex and don't come in arranged packages.

Nepoloen who reformed and laid the underpinnings of France was general. Charles De Gaul who is the architect of the modern French Republic was a General. Kemal Ataturk who is father of modern Turkey was a General. Eisenhover in US was a General. So it is not black and white. In Pakistan I consider Ayub Khan to be the best leader Pakistan has ever had including placing him ahead of Jinnah.

On the other hand Zia was smart but religious zealot with predictable results. Musharaf was entirely incompetant and the crowning glory of his life was invading Islamabad and conquering PM House.

I must confess that Nawaz version IV is doing decent job and should have be allowed to finish his term. I think the days of army coups are over. Let the system now evolve.
 
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Our civilian leaders have been corrupt.. our dictators not as much...

Our dictators have always tried to be politicians and our politicians have always tried to be dictators.


Apart from Zia military rule has always been bring secularism and economic prosperity ...
But didn't strengthen institutions..


The politicians have always filled their own coffers and tried to enforce their dictatorship and used institutions for their own personal aswell as political gains.
 
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I don't subscribe to the "Generals" are incapable of running countries and it takes certain background to be a successful leader. Human beings are complex and don't come in arranged packages.

Nepoloen who reformed and laid the underpinnings of France was general. Charles De Gaul who is the architect of the modern French Republic was a General. Kemal Ataturk who is father of modern Turkey was a General. Eisenhover in US was a General. So it is not black and white. In Pakistan I consider Ayub Khan to be the best leader Pakistan has ever had including placing him ahead of Jinnah.

On the other hand Zia was smart but religious zealot with predictable results. Musharaf was entirely incompetant and the crowning glory of his life was invading Islamabad and conquering PM House.

I must confess that Nawaz version IV is doing decent job and should have be allowed to finish his term. I think the days of army coups are over. Let the system now evolve.

Nawaz is a bloody corrupt kunt... And from the same category as Zardari ...

Nawaz the bastard son of gen Zia.
 
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Nawaz the bastard son of gen Zia.
He is. 99% of them are corrupt and they will not let any clean guy take over. As long as Pakistan get's stability for another decade for more of the CPEC to take shape. More tarmac. More concrete. Even if along the way money is being pinched the end goal is vital.

In decade time with Pakistan linked and open to external - primarily Chinese socio-economic ingress the pressure from Beijing will leverage Pakistan towards direction of making choices in the right direction.

And that includes push to muzzle the Mullahs and restrict religion back to where it belongs - private space.
 
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Decent article


That coz more than half of them in Karachi are from Delhi stupid. Go to Southall, London and a Sikh from Amritsar would fit in like a well used glove, because more than half of Southall, London are second generation Sikh migrants from Amritsar

This "us same" is a annoying cliche ..

Is this London or Amritsar below? Ignore the Roman script signs [Urdu signs].

20120325_Nagar_Kirtan_01.jpg

Why just Karachi?

During partition 7 million then Indians migrated to Pakistan. 1951 census says West Pakistan population stand at 33 million. That means more than 20% Pakistanis came from somewhere from now India.

It is said 80% of the muhajirs settled in Punjab and rest in Sindh. Half of the pakistan population is punjabi which has lot of similarity with North India and mainly Indian Punjab.

The one who can claim outright difference is the one from Balochistan, FATA and KP. For rest India has some or more population sharing commonalities.

I can understand why this "same people" irk you the most. :lol:
 
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punjabi which has lot of similarity with North India and mainly Indian Punjab.
I think you will find the most ( percentage) of the population exchange in Punjab was from within Punjab. Therefore it was mostly Punjabi's moving within their own two Punjabs. Which is why there is no identified group called "migrants" in Punjab - or at least not very conspicious.

Karachi is entirely differant because it indeed did take people from all over India although my understanding most are from Delhi/Lucknow region. Therefore I can't see why anybody would be surprised about the "similarity" between Delhi and Karachi.

I was reading a book by a British Army officer of his days in Karachi and how his regiment was sent to Cairo and then France in WW1. He makes the interesting comparison between Karachi and Cairo as being very similar down to even the semi arid dry landscape. That was interesting observation. I guess a lot has changed since.
 
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The per capita income gap between India and Pakistan, 20℅ as per OP in India's favor is questionable for a couple of reasons.
I have been following the Indian economic growth since past couple of years and despite the pessimistic outlook in economic reports I was amazed to see the Indian GDP jump with great leaps. I never understood how that was possible.
Last year, Modi's administration changed the CPI (Consumer Price Index) base year to 2011 which is quite a normal practice for developing countries and even encouraged by the IMF. Nothing wrong there.
Though its the applied methodology that has raised quite a few questions about the credibility and accountably of the stats.
The report was debunct by the president if Indian Central Bank who IIRC gave an example to portray the current state of Indian economy after the changed index.
IIRC he sad:
"If mother A takes care of the children of mother B and gets paid and the mother B does the same for mother A, two incomes are generated and the GDP grows. But is the economy better off?"

This is how current Indian GDP is calculated, a large grey area of informal sector is now included resulting in high growth in both nominal and PPP incomes.
Creative accounting and clever methods are applied to increase the total mass which shows an alarming discrepancy of 54%!!!

All the major factors that are traditionally seen as the catalist or growth engine of the economy such as export, large scale manufacturing (LSM), construction etc are down for almost three years in a row. Still the economy grew by 7.6%??

Pakistan last changed its index in 2004, that is 12 years ago. If we were to change the year to say 2014 (PMNL Govt) and brought the informal sector in just like India, I believe our GDP will jump by 50-75 billion dollars.

Hope you get my point. :thank_you2:

@waz, @Abu Zolfiqar, @Irfan Baloch, @Windjammer, @Kaptaan, @DESERT FIGHTER
 
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I think you will find the most ( percentage) of the exchange in Punjab was from within Punjab. Therefore it was mostly Punjabi's moving within their own two Punjabs. Which is why there is no identified group called "migrants" in Punjab - or at least not very conspicious.

Karachi is entirely differant because it indeed did take people from all over India although my understanding most are from Delhi/Lucknow region. Therefore I can't see why anybody would be surprised about the "similarity" between Delhi and Karachi.

I was reading a book by a British Army officer of his days in Karachi and how his regiment was sent to Cairo and then France in WW1. He makes the interesting comparison between Karachi and Cairo as being very similar down to even the semi arid dry landscape. That was interesting observation. I guess a lot has changed since.

Yep that is correct. Lot of migration happen from Uttar Pradesh and Gujrat as well. Bihar population which migrated got divided into east and west pakistan.
 
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Please die ..

You may want to ask another general to come into power to try to make it happen. But wait, ooops, I am a proud American!! We don't have shiity generals over taking the democratic system and murdering people as they wish to. We have a working justice system and courts and many law enforcement agencies who make sure the bad guys go to the jail and the good one's, stay good!!

Sorry, your wish can't be granted as we are a Civilian system. Now if your friend or uncle or cousin were a dictator in Pakistan, I am sure your wish would've come true as they don't value human life!!
 
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You may want to ask another general to come into power to try to make it happen.

Surprisingly I don't.
But wait, ooops, I am a proud American!! We don't have shiity generals over taking the democratic system and murdering people as they wish to.

No military ruler ever "murdered" anyone .. The coups were always bloodless and supported by public.. Anyways.


As for proud American and all.. Funny how a proud American gets butthurt whenever Pakistanis on the forum criticise Nawaz on whose orders 14 people were murdered in model town just last year!

Why so much love for Nawaz ? You love him or something?

It's our country and we have the right to chose our leaders and criticise some douchebag and if you have some obsession with some corrupt spineless bastard don't vent your anger here.. Mr proud American...

Hope you stop acting like the loyal hound of a corrupt Pakistani politican.
We have a working justice system and courts and many law enforcement agencies who make sure the bad guys go to the jail and the good one's, stay good!!

I second that but hey I don't give a shyt about you or American LEAs for that matter.
Sorry, your wish can't be granted as we are a Civilian system. Now if your friend or uncle or cousin were a dictator in Pakistan, I am sure your wish would've come true as they don't value human life!!
And America values human life ?:lol:

How many innocent civilians have been killed by US troops in the past 2 decades alone ?
 
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Surprisingly I don't.
No military ruler ever "murdered" anyone .. The coups were always bloodless and supported by public.. Anyways.

Are you sure about this comment? Mushy got a lot of people killed....Gen. Zia did too.....so be careful, you might get a list back from me!

As for proud American and all.. Funny how a proud American gets butthurt whenever Pakistanis on the forum criticise Nawaz on whose orders 14 people were murdered in model town just last year!

Your two lines above have two different questions, let me address those:
1) NS has done corruption and other stupid things too in his previous terms. No doubt about it. But today, when Pakistan as a nation, something I've studied for over 40 years, is finally getting a chance to the future, how could IK try to f*k it over due to his greed of power, and people like you point to stuff 5, 15 or 20 years ago. If someone made stupid mistakes 20 years or even 5 years ago, why should they be repeated? Common sense wise, humans evolve and progress and learn from their mistakes. What kind of a leader IK is, that wants to instigate violence, destroy the system and he points to what NS did years ago. That doesn't make Zardari, IK, NS, Mushy, Zia or anyone's acts right, but that does tell you he has some screws in his head lose that he wants to repeat the same violent and nation damaging mistakes, while he "claims" (like the remainder of everything he says), that he's the most educated, modern, etc, etc, God's gift to Pakistan? How do you try to eff over your own country in such a sensitive time and blame mistakes from 20 years ago as a motivation to your stupidity and violence spreading greedy agenda?? :o:o_O

This right here is what gets me butt hurt and truly. A nation I've studied and watched and visited for 40 years, has finally found a way up the hill, where her 200 million people, who've lived just a life, finally have a chance to be in the league of the UAE type of an environment, and then there is IK who is trying to take that away? That is my issue. And believe me, if IK was the PM doing all the work right now and NS was doing sit-ins, you won't see me spare NS.

No one has the right to hijack a nation from its growth path that is a once in a lifetime opportunity. You can't, out of your or some's personal greed, eff up an entire system. I hope you realize that. What's in America that everyone wants to be here or do business with us? Its a SYSTEM. The same system is being developed in Pakistan and IK needs to respect that and the term.

2) I don't know the details on the Model Town incident but the highlights. But I will tell you this, go to a US street and point to a cop with your hand making a gun from your palm and fingers. You will be shot and you may not be alive. That's it. Nothing less, nothing more.

Now how is it that this crazy mullah had people there with semi automatic machine guns? How is it that there are open arrest warrants issued for him that were issued by multiple courts due to the violence and loss of life that took place on his direct orders? Don't fu*k with the system, don't risk people's lives for your own greed, and don't think you are above it as the law will get you one day or another. That is my advise to IK and Mullah.

Why do you think mullah left this time without a "pay check"? Because the government told him that he needs to calm the f**k down and that he has arrest warrants issued, which, like Altaf, will be forwarded to the Canadian government should be tries to do anything stupid that might put people at risk. He "clearly" got the message and tried to depart quickly after a small show.

Why do you think IK's calm down too? The same message was given to him by the government and the military. You can't take the law in your hand, risk people's lives (people stupid enough to follow idiots like these whose statements don't pass common sense, let alone logic!!)!! Pakistan is in the 21st century and the opportunities around this nation are also of the 21st century. You can't be acting like you are in 1500's with this crap from IK and Mullah. This nation has to progress, show the educated, modern, peaceful side and make its name on the top of the fastest growing economies!! That is why I write on here. I could care less about these fools, whether NS or IK!!

I hope I was able to explain well :lol: :enjoy:
 
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Are you sure about this comment? Mushy got a lot of people killed....Gen. Zia did too.....so be careful, you might get a list back from me!



Your two lines above have two different questions, let me address those:
1) NS has done corruption and other stupid things too in his previous terms. No doubt about it. But today, when Pakistan as a nation, something I've studied for over 40 years, is finally getting a chance to the future, how could IK try to f*k it over due to his greed of power, and people like you point to stuff 5, 15 or 20 years ago. If someone made stupid mistakes 20 years or even 5 years ago, why should they be repeated? Common sense wise, humans evolve and progress and learn from their mistakes. What kind of a leader IK is, that wants to instigate violence, destroy the system and he points to what NS did years ago. That doesn't make Zardari, IK, NS, Mushy, Zia or anyone's acts right, but that does tell you he has some screws in his head lose that he wants to repeat the same violent and nation damaging mistakes, while he "claims" (like the remainder of everything he says), that he's the most educated, modern, etc, etc, God's gift to Pakistan? How do you try to eff over your own country in such a sensitive time and blame mistakes from 20 years ago as a motivation to your stupidity and violence spreading greedy agenda?? :o:o_O

This right here is what gets me butt hurt and truly. A nation I've studied and watched and visited for 40 years, has finally found a way up the hill, where her 200 million people, who've lived just a life, finally have a chance to be in the league of the UAE type of an environment, and then there is IK who is trying to take that away? That is my issue. And believe me, if IK was the PM doing all the work right now and NS was doing sit-ins, you won't see me spare NS.

No one has the right to hijack a nation from its growth path that is a once in a lifetime opportunity. You can't, out of your or some's personal greed, eff up an entire system. I hope you realize that. What's in America that everyone wants to be here or do business with us? Its a SYSTEM. The same system is being developed in Pakistan and IK needs to respect that and the term.

2) I don't know the details on the Model Town incident but the highlights. But I will tell you this, go to a US street and point to a cop with your hand making a gun from your palm and fingers. You will be shot and you may not be alive. That's it. Nothing less, nothing more.

Now how is it that this crazy mullah had people there with semi automatic machine guns? How is it that there are open arrest warrants issued for him that were issued by multiple courts due to the violence and loss of life that took place on his direct orders? Don't fu*k with the system, don't risk people's lives for your own greed, and don't think you are above it as the law will get you one day or another. That is my advise to IK and Mullah.

Why do you think mullah left this time without a "pay check"? Because the government told him that he needs to calm the f**k down and that he has arrest warrants issued, which, like Altaf, will be forwarded to the Canadian government should be tries to do anything stupid that might put people at risk. He "clearly" got the message and tried to depart quickly after a small show.

Why do you think IK's calm down too? The same message was given to him by the government and the military. You can't take the law in your hand, risk people's lives (people stupid enough to follow idiots like these whose statements don't pass common sense, let alone logic!!)!! Pakistan is in the 21st century and the opportunities around this nation are also of the 21st century. You can't be acting like you are in 1500's with this crap from IK and Mullah. This nation has to progress, show the educated, modern, peaceful side and make its name on the top of the fastest growing economies!! That is why I write on here. I could care less about these fools, whether NS or IK!!

I hope I was able to explain well :lol: :enjoy:

Wow proud American wrote such a lengthy post (utter garbage and full of lies and shyt) to defend a corrupt azzhole politician of Pakistan..


The love bond must be too strong.... So strong that Zia must be turning in his grave at such a display of affection for his "spiritual" son..:lol:
 
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Wow proud American wrote such a lengthy post (utter garbage and full of lies and shyt) to defend a corrupt azzhole politician of Pakistan..


The love bond must be too strong.... So strong that Zia must be turning in his grave at such a display of affection for his "spiritual" son..:lol:

Yea, low life answer from low life people following a shiity, illiterate low life idiot :lol: :enjoy: enuff said!! Keep spreading bullshiit. Your lee-der will lose his clothes too in the next election. The people are watching his and his followers insane stupid behavior and they will even this fool out through their vote :tup:
 
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