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India and NSG-News, Updates and Discussions.

Haha we weren't a part of the NPT or NSG either, we were very late arrivals.

But we managed to get in, and we even managed to get the NPT to recognize us as one of the 5 legitimate nuclear powers in the world, same with the rest of the UNSC P5.

It's not that China managed to 'get in'. China was always in these treaties.

China was given the UNSC P5 because India wasn't independent then. The only other alternative was Japan, that was unacceptable to anybody.

India can do that too. But only if they can offer something good enough to China, since we have veto power. :lol:

There are other way to get it.

NPT is entirely irrelevant to India. That's why all countries except China have objections. And Chinese objections are not because India is not a signatory, but that India is a threat to China. The NPT is only an excuse.
 
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Just turn back the pages of history. China never had a true friend of sorts ever. It got marauded over and over again because of it's aggressive policies. History will repeat soon :lol:
 
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Explain how it will hurt India? We have already taken action against Chinese steel dumping....and thats an intermediate good.

Finished goods are the really soft target. Our consumers can take a little hit on the price increase if needed, esp if it means helping domestic and non-chinese industry.

What are we importing from China that is absolutely critical? Energy? Nope. Transport? Nope. Education? Nope. Health? Nope.....Imports of finished goods are price elastic...so are the machinery and capital goods, plenty of suppliers for those...even domestic ones. A little closing off from China can be a good thing for India from that stand point alone.

The only thing that needs caution are intermediate goods that are inputs for Indian manufacturing jobs. Other than that, pretty punitive action can be taken. Indian exports to China are not that significant if they resort to a trade war. CAD will improve overall.

China has given a perfect excuse for India to shutdown their business in India and India should make full use of this opportunity.

This would be the first step for India to turn this failure into a success.

We need coordinated actions by the government, media and the people to make it a success.

laaton ke bhoot baaton se nahi mante
 
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13483361_973013229464436_4340836112111730137_o.jpg
 
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Oh mighty self claim supor powa and need of the whole universe India, please note that by connecting Pakistan via CPEC give lots of goods things to China and when we comparing with this what you offer is not even peanut. Anyway carry on with your mightiness and we dame care.

That reply did not concern Pakistan one little bit. How much does Pakistan trade with China (its all weather friend) compared to India do you know?
 
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India’s NSG bid hits snag: Members rake up non-NPT status, oppose induction
Brazil, Austria, New Zealand, Ireland and Turkey have opposed India's NSG bid citing its non-NPT status.
326
SHARES
Express Web Desk | New Delhi | Updated: June 23, 2016 10:24 pm
modi-sco-3.jpg


According to the Ministry of External Affair (MEA), PM Modi urged China to make a fair and objective assessment of India’s application on merit.
At the Nuclear Security Group plenary meeting in Seoul Thursday, it appears that China is not the sole opponent of India’s induction into the 48-member group.

Brazil, Austria, New Zealand, Ireland and Turkey have opposed India’s NSG bid citing its non-NPT status, according to news agency ANI. Mexico, however, made good of its promise to back India’s bid at the meeting after Prime Minister Narendra Modi sought their support during his recent visit to the country.

It must have come as a surprise to India after Brazil, a key ally and member of the BRICS, has put its foot down against its bid. A clear consensus among the member states is yet to emerge regarding India’s accession to the group.

Interestingly, no discussion took place on the induction of Pakistan to the NSG, despite China backing its bid.

PM Modi today met Chinese President Xi Jinping in Tashkent, Uzbekistan. According to the Ministry of External Affair (MEA), PM Modi urged China to make a fair and objective assessment of India’s application on merit.

Pakistan President, who is also in Tashkent for the SCO, told Xi Jinping that any exemptions given to a country for NSG membership could disturb strategic stability in South Asia.

India currently has the backing of France, USA, Japan among others.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...ndia-nsg-bid-meet-seoul-live-updates-2871865/


this makes sense
I mean a country that was the cause of making this organisation to prevent unlawful use of nuclear material for military use. refuses to sign NPT .. wants to be part of the exclusive club through force and intimidation just because America needs it against China. for once the justice prevailed and best part is that it was not just China that opposed its induction but other countries too.
 
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India’s Failed NSG Bid: Move Aside US, China is the New Sheriff in Town

China successfully stared down the US in Seoul while trying to control the nuclear order – once an American playing field where Washington set the rules.

Credit: PTI/File Photo


Washington: The events in Seoul are not just a setback for India because its high-octane bid to enter the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) failed, but they are also a reality check for the US.

There is a new sheriff in town, swaggering and seizing new terrain.

China successfully stared down the US in Seoul, staking territory while trying to control the nuclear order. It used to be an American playing field where Washington set the rules, decided who was in and who was out.

China’s power play will reverberate across Asia, leaving behind tough questions about the emerging reality. It will impact calculations of countries as they assess the weather over South China Sea and the Pacific, and think about the American pivot. They might favour rebalancing themselves in a new way.

It must be sobering for US President Barack Obama to realise how far he has gone from his ‘rock star’ status in 2008, when the western world seemed in awe and leaders lined up to shake his hand to imbibe some of the magic. Today, his name invokes neither fear nor love as he prepares to end his tenure.

Obama couldn’t keep his promise to Prime Minister Narendra Modi on the NSG, at least not this time around. It remains to be seen if an “extraordinary” NSG plenary is called before the year is out to make another push for India’s membership. In the meantime, India has hinted it may not ratify the Paris climate agreement, something that Obama and Europeans really want.

US and Indian officials say that Obama was personally engaged in the NSG diplomacy, that secretary of state John Kerry made calls, as did Tony Blinken, his deputy. Blinken was in daily contact with foreign secretary S. Jaishankar to plot strategy and exchange notes. The White House reportedly called the leaders of Austria, Ireland and New Zealand. A US official described it as a “very, very intense engagement”.

An Indian official corroborated the statement: “It was a 100% effort by the Americans. Without them, things wouldn’t have reached as far as they did. They put their reputation on line”.

Yet an impression lingers that Obama isn’t as invested or enthusiastic as George Bush about India and the whole nuclear issue. After all, just two months ago he equated India and Pakistan’s nuclear programmes at the Nuclear Security Summit and implied they were moving in the “wrong direction”. New Delhi found that offensive.

Obama’s White House has also flirted with the idea of giving Pakistan a nuclear deal, thanks to some officials who are said to be close to Pakistani generals and others who don’t like India enough. Senior officials in the Bush team had a clearer vision and plan for India’s inclusion in the global nuclear architecture. They stayed on message.

In Seoul, the Obama administration couldn’t prevail over or convince countries such as New Zealand, Ireland, Switzerland and Austria to come fully on board to isolate China. The presence of these “conscientious” objectors – who admittedly don’t oppose India’s entry on principle but want some criteria in place – allowed China to play procedural games with aplomb. In turn, China was the wall they stood behind.

These countries raised “questions on process, not substance” about what criteria ought to be used to admit countries that haven’t signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. This must have pleased China, “which created procedural blocks at every single turn, from the time the session opened to the last minute,” according to a US official. “The Chinese were extremely obstinate”.

But everyone knew China would be, because it had made its stand and intentions clear. It was Xi Jinping’s China. Yet, the India-US combined strategy was the same as in 2008 when Hu Jintao was in power. Essentially, it was to “winnow the field,” and isolate China as the lone man standing.

But Xi is the happiest lone man standing, unafraid to use his considerable elbows. Perhaps a very different line of attack and defence was required. It seems the White House left it to India to make “the final play” and reach some sort of understanding when Modi met Xi just before the Seoul plenary. The Americans didn’t really plan a countermove themselves.

Interestingly, America’s own band of NGO non-proliferation hardliners also played for the Chinese side, not the American. Some of them reportedly signed a letter sent to the NSG chair before the Seoul plenary, slamming India’s non-proliferation credentials in the worst way possible. The issues raised make India’s record seem almost as bad as that of Pakistan.

But then, non-pro hardliners have been targeting India for years. It is they who first came up with most of the ideas that China and Pakistan float as bare necessities of a new nuclear order. One of them wrote in favour of a “criteria-based process” that would “preserve Pakistan’s prospects for future admission” just before the plenary.

At the same time, he wondered if allowing India and Pakistan into the NSG was really worth the trouble because the “club” could get “ensnarled” in “animosity”. Trouble is western analysts can’t be bothered to differentiate between two very separate histories and trajectories. They resort to “pox-on-both-their-houses” as an easy way out.

As India deals with disappointment and the US with the new normal, what neither should do is give more reason to China to celebrate.

http://thewire.in/45886/indias-failed-nsg-bid-move-aside-us-china-is-the-new-sheriff-in-town/
 
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The BJP government's misadventure to pit Beijing against New Delhi on a global forum will incur a huge cost.

POLITICS
| 5-minute read | 25-06-2016

ASHOK SWAIN

The Nuclear Supply Group (NSG) annual plenary session in Seoul ended on June 24 even without a discussion on India's membership application. Whatever the official spin, this outcome was not unexpected.

No one questions India's eligibility to be a member of this exclusive club, however the diplomatic blitzkrieg approach Narendra Modi and his foreign policy "team" took to achieve it raises serious doubts about their basic understanding of the realpolitik in the post-2008 world.

modid-nsg_062516113750.jpg

This 'event management' style of foreign policy has become too costly for India.
By not becoming a member of NSG, which was formed mainly in response to India's first nuclear test in 1974, India has not lost much per se.

Most of membership benefits have been already accrued due to the grant of an exemption by this export-control cartel, which was negotiated diligently by the UPA government in 2008.

Only tangible benefit India can get by being a member of the NSG is that it can prevent Pakistan from being a member in future.

Also read - Foolish to even think China will support India's NSG bid

Thus it is obvious to ask why Modi raised the stakes on pushing the agenda. Undoubtedly, it would have given him and his supporters the possibility to drumbeat the hype of his stature as a "global leader".

However, this "event management" style of foreign policy without a comprehensive global power analysis has become too costly for India.

Foreign policy success since the AB Vajpayee regime to de-hyphenate India from Pakistan in the global arena has taken a serious beating with Modi's misadventures.

Upon failing to get NSG membership, Modi administration tries to spin that it had managed to isolate China in Seoul and successfully created a near consensus in the favour of its application. This is merely a lie.

Only 32 members out of 48 have supported India's application. Not only China, but Brazil, Ireland, Austria, South Africa, Turkey, New Zealand too have openly opposed India's membership over the NPT issue.

Even Switzerland, in spite of Modi's recent photo-op with its President, refused to endorse India's application sans NPT.

Since 2008, India had managed to secure itself from being censured on the NPT issue, but Modi has exposed India yet again.

The list of losses for the thoughtless hoopla over NSG membership is a long one. It has enhanced Pakistan to be hyphenated with India and has also exposed the country to global pressure over signing the NPT.

The immense negative blow of this senseless jingoism in Modi's foreign policy is that it has helped China to shed its inhibition in openly coming out against India in global fora.

Some Modi supporters are trying hard to paint it as a success as India is finally playing power politics at the big table.

Playing power politics in the big league is praiseworthy, but if you do not have enough firepower to play the game it can be suicidal. China, in spite of its huge economic strength and massive domination in both conventional and nuclear military hardware, was reluctant to even enter into any confrontation with the global power system until the 2008 global financial crisis.

But Modi, ever in a hurry to prove himself, does not want to wait for the right moment.

In open confrontation with China, India has most to lose. We have a ballooning trade deficit vis-à-vis China.

In the last year, deficit figure has reached close to 50 billion dollars in China's favour. Moreover, while China exports telecommunications equipment, computer hardware, industrial machinery and other manufactured goods, India sends back mostly raw materials such as cotton yarn, gems and other precious metals like copper and iron ore.

The character of exported goods exposes the state of industrial development of exporting countries. On industrial and economic development fronts, India lags at least two decades behind China, if not more.

In economic terms, India needs China more than China needs India. While China is extremely adept in dealing with emotive issues, not affecting its bilateral commercial ties, India does not have much experience in managing this contradiction.

After open confrontation over the NSG membership, the hawkish views on China within Sangh Parivar could very likely gain traction and that might affect bilateral trade relations.

China not only has the upper hand over the bilateral trade, but also upstream control over a large portion of India's river water, originating from the Himalayas.

While India has been traditionally playing the powerful role of an upstream riparian vis-à-vis Bangladesh with respect to the Brahmaputra river, that honour has now gone to China after its decision to build five major dams on the river.

Also read - Politics behind India's bid for NSG

China has also built dams on the upper reaches of the Indus and Sutlej rivers. India is now to a large extent dependent on China for the execution of its grand river-linking plan to meet the growing water scarcity in the country.

China's influence is immense on most of India's neighbours. One doesn't need to elaborate China's control over its "iron brother" Pakistan and "ideological brother" Myanmar.

For many years now, China has also cultivated its strategic assets in Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and the Maldives.

Even in Nepal, China is playing the role of a kingmaker. To counter China in the neighbourhood, India possesses a single Dalai Lama card, and that is fast losing its importance in front of China's increasing global power and influence.

It is critical that Modi and his foreign policy team make an honest evaluation of the risks attached to enticing China to an open confrontation. India has already gone ahead in cooperating with the United States to militarily contain China.

While Modi actively collaborates in the containment of China, at the same time, expecting China not to reciprocate in the same coin is not only amateurish, but also plain foolhardy.

The failure at Seoul is not a big deal. However, Modi's misadventure to pit India against China will incur the country a huge cost.

The latter's nuisance value is immense over India's goals of achieving economic development, food security as well as internal stability and regional cooperation.

Without China's support, India can never fulfill its dream of becoming a permanent member of the Security Council.

http://www.dailyo.in/politics/modi-government-nsg-india-china-ties-npt-seoul/story/1/11385.html

Not trying to influence your opinion but i believe China should never submit to psychological warfare being played by India...Indians are shamelessly trying to make China appear bad cop despite knowing others opposed their bid too. This shows a very rude and unethical on part of India. It requires tremendous confidence (shame u should read) to do such thing. I believe that China should keep pressure on India time by time. It is very necessary to put them in check. They have opposed CPEC (China Pakistan Economic Corridor) , singed Logistics agreement with US, involved in encouraging China and Pakistan separatist factions, blocking of Nepal and what not. If allowed go uncheck, they'll wreck havoc in this region. They need some nice and humble attitude and only Pakistan and China can provide them that. They need some really serious taming because they are riding too high, crossing their limits and looking down upon us.
On the other hand, We Pakistanis are going very well along with you. Will Love to see more close cooperation with you guys in future in every arena of the world. :-) :pakistan::china:

@Chinese-Dragon @rott @grey boy 2 @GS Zhou @AndrewJin @Beast @Dungeness @beijingwalker @oprih @cirr @+4vsgorillas-Apebane @Tiqiu
 
.
India’s Failed NSG Bid: Move Aside US, China is the New Sheriff in Town

China successfully stared down the US in Seoul while trying to control the nuclear order – once an American playing field where Washington set the rules.

Credit: PTI/File Photo


Washington: The events in Seoul are not just a setback for India because its high-octane bid to enter the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) failed, but they are also a reality check for the US.

There is a new sheriff in town, swaggering and seizing new terrain.

China successfully stared down the US in Seoul, staking territory while trying to control the nuclear order. It used to be an American playing field where Washington set the rules, decided who was in and who was out.

China’s power play will reverberate across Asia, leaving behind tough questions about the emerging reality. It will impact calculations of countries as they assess the weather over South China Sea and the Pacific, and think about the American pivot. They might favour rebalancing themselves in a new way.

It must be sobering for US President Barack Obama to realise how far he has gone from his ‘rock star’ status in 2008, when the western world seemed in awe and leaders lined up to shake his hand to imbibe some of the magic. Today, his name invokes neither fear nor love as he prepares to end his tenure.

Obama couldn’t keep his promise to Prime Minister Narendra Modi on the NSG, at least not this time around. It remains to be seen if an “extraordinary” NSG plenary is called before the year is out to make another push for India’s membership. In the meantime, India has hinted it may not ratify the Paris climate agreement, something that Obama and Europeans really want.

US and Indian officials say that Obama was personally engaged in the NSG diplomacy, that secretary of state John Kerry made calls, as did Tony Blinken, his deputy. Blinken was in daily contact with foreign secretary S. Jaishankar to plot strategy and exchange notes. The White House reportedly called the leaders of Austria, Ireland and New Zealand. A US official described it as a “very, very intense engagement”.

An Indian official corroborated the statement: “It was a 100% effort by the Americans. Without them, things wouldn’t have reached as far as they did. They put their reputation on line”.

Yet an impression lingers that Obama isn’t as invested or enthusiastic as George Bush about India and the whole nuclear issue. After all, just two months ago he equated India and Pakistan’s nuclear programmes at the Nuclear Security Summit and implied they were moving in the “wrong direction”. New Delhi found that offensive.

Obama’s White House has also flirted with the idea of giving Pakistan a nuclear deal, thanks to some officials who are said to be close to Pakistani generals and others who don’t like India enough. Senior officials in the Bush team had a clearer vision and plan for India’s inclusion in the global nuclear architecture. They stayed on message.

In Seoul, the Obama administration couldn’t prevail over or convince countries such as New Zealand, Ireland, Switzerland and Austria to come fully on board to isolate China. The presence of these “conscientious” objectors – who admittedly don’t oppose India’s entry on principle but want some criteria in place – allowed China to play procedural games with aplomb. In turn, China was the wall they stood behind.

These countries raised “questions on process, not substance” about what criteria ought to be used to admit countries that haven’t signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. This must have pleased China, “which created procedural blocks at every single turn, from the time the session opened to the last minute,” according to a US official. “The Chinese were extremely obstinate”.

But everyone knew China would be, because it had made its stand and intentions clear. It was Xi Jinping’s China. Yet, the India-US combined strategy was the same as in 2008 when Hu Jintao was in power. Essentially, it was to “winnow the field,” and isolate China as the lone man standing.

But Xi is the happiest lone man standing, unafraid to use his considerable elbows. Perhaps a very different line of attack and defence was required. It seems the White House left it to India to make “the final play” and reach some sort of understanding when Modi met Xi just before the Seoul plenary. The Americans didn’t really plan a countermove themselves.

Interestingly, America’s own band of NGO non-proliferation hardliners also played for the Chinese side, not the American. Some of them reportedly signed a letter sent to the NSG chair before the Seoul plenary, slamming India’s non-proliferation credentials in the worst way possible. The issues raised make India’s record seem almost as bad as that of Pakistan.

But then, non-pro hardliners have been targeting India for years. It is they who first came up with most of the ideas that China and Pakistan float as bare necessities of a new nuclear order. One of them wrote in favour of a “criteria-based process” that would “preserve Pakistan’s prospects for future admission” just before the plenary.

At the same time, he wondered if allowing India and Pakistan into the NSG was really worth the trouble because the “club” could get “ensnarled” in “animosity”. Trouble is western analysts can’t be bothered to differentiate between two very separate histories and trajectories. They resort to “pox-on-both-their-houses” as an easy way out.

As India deals with disappointment and the US with the new normal, what neither should do is give more reason to China to celebrate.

http://thewire.in/45886/indias-failed-nsg-bid-move-aside-us-china-is-the-new-sheriff-in-town/

China along with other countries did a tremendous job....Kudos to all those countries who refused to bow down under US pressure.
 
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China has given a perfect excuse for India to shutdown their business in India and India should make full use of this opportunity.

This would be the first step for India to turn this failure into a success.

We need coordinated actions by the government, media and the people to make it a success.

laaton ke bhoot baaton se nahi mante

It may have been the intention all along. NSG admission may actually have hurt India in the long run (if China deficit was allowed to continue with no countering) compared to the result now. Our trade with the world is 99.999% composed of non-nuclear trade ;)
 
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That was a gamble that Modi played and lost and of course it will have repercussions. Though Pakistan woke up at eleventh hour and fifty ninth minute, it still got its act together and was able to at least block India's entry on fair grounds, now it is NPT vs non-NPT members states, a principled stance. However, Pakistan needs concerted diplomacy to get a place in MTCR.
 
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