India and Iran: Challenges and Opportunity

[bozorgmehr]

This has nothing to do with either money or the higher bidder no matter how much that might suit your argument. This is about the basis for demanding special treatment, it is only reasonable that you outline what special behaviour have you shown towards India that makes your expectations justified.

As for issues between two countries, an attempt to assassinate an Israeli diplomat on Indian soil led in the direction of Iran. Some trustworthiness that.
Iran was behind bomb plot against Israeli diplomats, investigators find | World news | The Guardian

lol... who said anything about money? And if you think sticking to your own word means giving others special treatment, well once again you're proving my point.

You are the one who claimed trustworthiness is meaningless in international relationships. And I've been claiming the very exact opposite. That nations' values and principles inform the policies they adopt. And that advanced nations are advanced, precisely because of those principles and values. And furthermore, that lack of principles lead to a mercenary and 'up-for-sale' mentality with the painful consequences that you are aware of.

 

[Lonely Hermit]

You are the one who claimed trustworthiness is meaningless in international relationships. And I've been claiming the very exact opposite. That nations' values and principles inform the policies they adopt. And that advanced nations are advanced, precisely because of those principles and values. And furthermore, that lack of principles lead to a mercenary and 'up-for-sale' mentality with the painful consequences that you are aware of.

You are pointing at the wrong country then we have never given our soil to set up bases by foreign power(morally ethical country Japan and Germany still have foreign bases in their country) nor have we taken part in regime change exercise at the behest of uncle sam like some morally ethical country that you have pointed out .
So I am not able to understand what is this grudge that you have that you are directing at India

 

[arbit]

No sh!t sherlock! Nobody said to wake up in the morning and think of how you can help others... But there are ways to do things... And unfortunately, you have proven that you are not trustworthy.

India broke its own assurances. That demonstrates lack trustworthiness.

You are beating a dead horse my friend. Yes we voted against you at IAEA, something which you evidently have taken quite personally. But you have overlooked the efforts of India and that India, at her own costs, helped Iran in whatever way she could during sanctions.
India, Japan paid economic price for sanctions on Iran: Susan Rice

India voted against you only when it was clear that 1 vote wouldn't make any difference but will project us against the collective will of some countries, whose assistance in certain aspects were vital at that time.
Geopolitics relations between countries moves at their own pace and take their own directions and pin pricks like this shouldn't activate tears gland in the collective psyche of a nation. No offence.
I write this because you are taking an overtly emotional view of this issue when we have ourselves kept the issue of YOU supporting Pakistan in wars against India aside and understand that with the change in governments, policy directions can be fine tuned and it shouldn't hold back the civilisational ties between two millennia old cultures.

On this note, just imagine India providing active assistance against Iran in a war with its neighbours. You will probably hate us till eternity !

Exactly! In other words, if you want India to stick to its own word, you gotta keep paying it. Otherwise, if a higher bidder comes along, well they're up for sale.... I think you're unwittingly demonstrating the example of the word untrustworthy.

That's a mercenary attitude my friend. And that kind of mentality leads to a few thousand British soldiers taking over a huge country like India...

How you concluded that from what I said, god only knows... And I'd prefer to keep it that way.

India has stood by you through the good times as well as through sanctions when the entire world either willingly or under compulsion stopped trading with you. We had some important nuclear membership issues coming up for discussions and we couldn't afford to be seen on wrong side of the line.
This was what forced our hand. Don't act like one vote of India sunk you.

Secondly this is not mercenary attitude. Your incomplete understanding of geopolitical issues became clear from the moment you called European countries like Germany, Britain etc ethical ! You might be their fanboys. We are NOT. You might wanna be like them, We DON'T.

Lastly, British did not take one homogenous country. They with their high 'ethical' standards made inroads into self ruled provinces not much larger than current day states in India.
When india started uniting, they were politely kicked out.

One last thing. We indians view Iran and Iranian positively. However this is a defence forum, and your caustic remarks will provoke similar remarks from my countrymen. So, all said and done, please don't take PDF as seriously as you took that stupid vote.

@The Last of us @2800 Your views?

 

[Lonely Hermit]

lol... who said anything about money? And if you think sticking to your own word means giving others special treatment, well once again you're proving my point.

Geopolitics is not about money good sir it is about maximizing one's interest.
Stabilization of Afghanistan better land access to central asia and russia are our common economic and geopolitical interest.
When Taliban was wreaking havoc in Afghanistan it was Iran, Russia and India who were aiding Northen Alliance not your morally ethical list of country who would give a damn about that part of the world.

 

[bozorgmehr]

You are pointing at the wrong country then we have never given our soil to set up bases by foreign power(morally ethical country Japan and Germany still have foreign bases in their country) nor have we taken part in regime change exercise at the behest of uncle sam like some morally ethical country that you have pointed out .
So I am not able to understand what is this grudge that you have that you are directing at India

Once again, being moral and ethical simply means you have a more pronounced or clearly defined set of values and principles and that you willingly exercise those. It doesn't mean the values themselves are all good or that they stay the same forever.

 

[Lonely Hermit]

Once again, being moral and ethical simply means you have a more pronounced or clearly defined set of values and principles and that you willingly exercise those. It doesn't mean the values themselves are all good or that they stay the same forever.

Ok nice to know we are immoral and unethical .

 

[bozorgmehr]

Ok nice to know we are immoral and unethical .

Correct! If Indians who have posted on this thread are to be taken at their word, you don't believe in the merit of principles and values, much less exercise them, and god forbid, pay a price for them.

Westerners believe in their values and pay a price for them and adapt and change them over time. It's just that those values do not extend to you and me. They do not cover you and me. Those values work to their benefit, which is often times against ours.

But you and me are supposed to have our own system of values and ethics that work to our benefit. But somehow, we don't seem to be grasping that concept. We think those are for chumps. Instead we look at our immediate benefit. What's in it for me right now? And that has led us down many narrow and winding dead-ends.

But I'm hopeful about the future of Iran. Because even though a lot of those values are not consonant with what we want to achieve, we believe in and exercise our values and pay a price for it if necessary. And over time we rectify and adjust the dissonant values and over the long run we'll be much more successful and happier for it.

 

[Sam.]

You are beating a dead horse my friend. Yes we voted against you at IAEA, something which you evidently have taken quite personally. But you have overlooked the efforts of India and that India, at her own costs, helped Iran in whatever way she could during sanctions.
India, Japan paid economic price for sanctions on Iran: Susan Rice

India voted against you only when it was clear that 1 vote wouldn't make any difference but will project us against the collective will of some countries, whose assistance in certain aspects were vital at that time.
Geopolitics relations between countries moves at their own pace and take their own directions and pin pricks like this shouldn't activate tears gland in the collective psyche of a nation. No offence.
I write this because you are taking an overtly emotional view of this issue when we have ourselves kept the issue of YOU supporting Pakistan in wars against India aside and understand that with the change in governments, policy directions can be fine tuned and it shouldn't hold back the civilisational ties between two millennia old cultures.

On this note, just imagine India providing active assistance against Iran in a war with its neighbours. You will probably hate us till eternity !




India has stood by you through the good times as well as through sanctions when the entire world either willingly or under compulsion stopped trading with you. We had some important nuclear membership issues coming up for discussions and we couldn't afford to be seen on wrong side of the line.
This was what forced our hand. Don't act like one vote of India sunk you.

Secondly this is not mercenary attitude. Your incomplete understanding of geopolitical issues became clear from the moment you called European countries like Germany, Britain etc ethical ! You might be their fanboys. We are NOT. You might wanna be like them, We DON'T.

Lastly, British did not take one homogenous country. They with their high 'ethical' standards made inroads into self ruled provinces not much larger than current day states in India.
When india started uniting, they were politely kicked out.

One last thing. We indians view Iran and Iranian positively. However this is a defence forum, and your caustic remarks will provoke similar remarks from my countrymen. So, all said and done, please don't take PDF as seriously as you took that stupid vote.

@The Last of us @2800 Your views?

Ok nice to know we are immoral and unethical .

Why you talking to a guy who says "Usa and UK is morally ethical"

Wasting your time with him guys and gals, let the delusional guy be high on his opinions. Iran govt know what we did for them.

 

[bozorgmehr]

Why you talking to a guy who says "Usa and UK is morally ethical"

Wasting your time with him guys and gals, let the delusional guy be high on his opinions. Iran govt know what we did for them.

Don't be nasty Sammy boy! I've been civil in my discussions on this thread so far. But I could give you a taste of your own medicine if you insist.

 

[Bang Galore]

You are the one who claimed trustworthiness is meaningless in international relationships. And I've been claiming the very exact opposite. That nations' values and principles inform the policies they adopt. And that advanced nations are advanced, precisely because of those principles and values. And furthermore, that lack of principles lead to a mercenary and 'up-for-sale' mentality with the painful consequences that you are aware of.

Deliberate misconstruing. I refer to the use of the word trustworthiness by you. Trust is not given to anyone, it has to be earned, a point I have made before. In all the circular arguments made by you, you have not been able to substantiate why you expect that you automatically should be treated in a special manner.

The rest of your post on the dangers of this or that w.r.t to India are no concern of yours. That is our look out.

 

[bozorgmehr]

Deliberate misconstruing. I refer to the use of the word trustworthiness by you. Trust is not given to anyone, it has to be earned, a point I have made before. In all the circular arguments made by you, you have not been able to substantiate why you expect that you automatically should be treated in a special manner.

The rest of your post on the dangers of this or that w.r.t to India are no concern of yours. That is our look out.

You still don't seem to be understanding the difference between trust and trustworthiness. Go read up on it.

 

[Bang Galore]

You still don't seem to be understanding the difference between trust and trustworthiness. Go read up on it.

Don't have to, I'm not the one confused of how that works. If you feel India is not to be trusted , that is your call. International relations work on reciprocity, unless you belong to that very narrow grouping that each country has where such reciprocity is not looked for. If you think a vote against you is a breach in that "trust", surely an assassination attempt on Indian soil against diplomats of a country India sees as a friend, is equally a breach, probably even more so.

 

[Lonely Hermit]

Correct! If Indians who have posted on this thread are to be taken at their word, you don't believe in the merit of principles and values, much less exercise them, and god forbid, pay a price for them.

Westerners believe in their values and pay a price for them and adapt and change them over time. It's just that those values do not extend to you and me. They do not cover you and me. Those values work to their benefit, which is often times against ours.

But you and me are supposed to have our own system of values and ethics that work to our benefit. But somehow, we don't seem to be grasping that concept. We think those are for chumps. Instead we look at our immediate benefit. What's in it for me right now? And that has led us down many narrow and winding dead-ends.

But I'm hopeful about the future of Iran. Because even though a lot of those values are not consonant with what we want to achieve, we believe in and exercise our values and pay a price for it if necessary. And over time we rectify and adjust the dissonant values and over the long run we'll be much more successful and happier for it.

 

[Sam.]

Don't be nasty Sammy boy! I've been civil in my discussions on this thread so far. But I could give you a taste of your own medicine if you insist.

Do i care what a random guy on internet says to me. Are you trying to intimidate me over Internet

 

[bozorgmehr]

Don't have to, I'm not the one confused of how that works. If you feel India is not to be trusted , that is your call. International relations work on reciprocity, unless you belong to that very narrow grouping that each country has where such reciprocity is not looked for. If you think a vote against you is a breach in that "trust", surely an assassination attempt on Indian soil against diplomats of a country India sees as a friend, is equally a breach, probably even more so.

You're way too dense! Listen, if you don't like what I think, tough! take it else where. Indians are just to be traded with and made a quick buck with. You are not trustworthy.