India Accepts Pakistan Air Force is a Leading Force

[bandit]

Oscar not allowed to by the leaders is exactly the same as not wanting to.

It is now in PAF's and PA's interest to not fight a war with India. Over the decade they have been outclassed in technology - lesser wrt to PA & IA, and much more wrt PAF & IAF.

It was a show of force, no MKI would enter Pakistan if India wanted to start a war. It would be started by Cruise Missiles which i may add IA & IAF posses in decent quantities. Neither would any precision attack be carried out by MKI or Mirage, CM"s would be used in this case as well.

Should've let him answer that, you took the fun out of it...:p

 

[danger007]

Pak members trying to prove them selves superior to IAF..... We don't need to argue with them....... PAF is far more superior to IAF.... They are trying to prove :they are unbeatables in Pak territory...aswell in some other cases:they are smashing IAF bases without any resistance from IAF.... He he he

Pak members trying to prove them selves superior to IAF..... We don't need to argue with them....... PAF is far more superior to IAF.... They are trying to prove :they are unbeatables in Pak territory...aswell in some other cases:they are smashing IAF bases without any resistance from IAF.... He he he

 

[IceCold]

PAKISTANIS are trying too hard to CONVINCE everyone THEY HAVE A great air force.

IT STEMS from insecurity over lack of FUNDS and options now he AMERICANS have moved away from PAF as their MAIN SPONSOR since 9/11

Pakistanis ARE NOT stupid they know FULL WELL american equipment ESPECIALLY F16s where world class FIGHTERS, as was their training & tactics that they supplied from the mid 1960s to mid 1990s

TODAY PAF HAS lost the tech edge AND INDIA,S enormous financial POWER is giving the INDIANS a CLEAR LEAD in nos & technology .

This lead is demonstrated aptly by SU30MKI programme , the phalon awacs & soon to come MMRCA rafale deals. DEALS costing up too $30 billion over the next decade..

IF PAF IS a leading AIR FORCE ..

what does this make the IAF of TODAY & the indian air force of 2020 ????

Actually no its the other way round because Indians are the ones trying so hard to prove that they could do surgical strikes on Pakistan without fearing any repercussions. Unfortunately the bubble got busted and the egos got bruised. Now when are you guys going to accept that?
And Storm Force Pakistanis really don't need to show anyone anything, we are well aware of our limitations. And the so called lead well how about F-16 up gradation + block 52 purchase, JF-17, Saab erieye, the ZDK-3, and since you mentioned the MRCA, i hope you don't mind me mentioning J-10b aka FC-20.

All of this happened with a bad economy with WOT going on. Imagine what will happen once our economy gets back on track? And most sensible Indian members will agree with me that Pakistan's procurement procedure is way faster then your Babu's making defense deals for India. i Hope you agree atleast on this front.

Adios

 

[IceCold]

What lesson? How can you possibly compare Kargil ops to this. The former incidents happend during a time of WAR, the later happend during peacetime, the IAF doesn't look to go around antagonising Pakistan or look to enter Pakistan's air space- why would it? And the only reason IAF jets didn't cross during Kargil was because India didn't want to escalate the conflict further, who knows what would have happend if it had done so. And remember at the time the Paksitani government claimed these were rogue militants and nothing to do with the Pakistani state.

The IAF has no reason to bow down to the PAF. No offence but that goes completely against any reasoning and logic, common sense dictates it is the strongest that dictates to the weaker and it is clear which AF is which in this anology to say their wise goes against even the most basic understanding.

Nope the former incident did not happened in the time of war because officially we were not at war and neither was international border crossed. So when IAF intruded, they violated the international border and hence they were shot down.
The reason i mentioned kargil here was because had IAF this confidence that they would not face any resistance, with all the talks of surgical strikes across the border, they would have violated again at the very least.

And no IAF does not have any reason to bow down to PAF, yet you are assuming PAF has?

You said stronger dictates the weaker.....true i agree but if you use this analogy in India Pakistan context, then Wrong because IAF as of today has nothing over PAF that would hold the above true. And apart from the jingoism and bravado, IAF is fully aware of this fact.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Nope the former incident did not happened in the time of war because officially we were not at war and neither was international border crossed. So when IAF intruded, they violated the international border and hence they were shot down.
The reason i mentioned kargil here was because had IAF this confidence that they would not face any resistance, with all the talks of surgical strikes across the border, they would have violated again at the very least.

And no IAF does not have any reason to bow down to PAF, yet you are assuming PAF has?

You said stronger dictates the weaker.....true i agree but if you use this analogy in India Pakistan context, then Wrong because IAF as of today has nothing over PAF that would hold the above true. And apart from the jingoism and bravado, IAF is fully aware of this fact.

Firstly, fair play- you've given a good, well written and reasonable reply. And I concede some of the points you have raised.


However saying the IAF has NOTHING over the PAF? This clearly isn't true, apart from out and out numbers it has larger quantities of 4th gen fighters as well as more AWACS, more AARs, more transports etc. And in many cases the quantity is backed by superior quality on example can be the AWACS of both nations, whilst it may seem the PAF about matched the IAF's AWACS on paper wrt numbers any person who knows anything about defence will tell you the IAF's PHALCON AWACS easily outclasses the ERIEYE or ZDK. Paksitan's own media has said in the past there is strong fear among the PAF brass that the PHALCON could simply jam all PAF AWACS.

And most sensible Indian members will agree with me that Pakistan's procurement procedure is way faster then your Babu's making defense deals for India. i Hope you agree atleast on this front.

Adios

To be fair this is because of a number of reasons. In Pakistan the military wields ridiculous power of the civil government and nance makes sure its needs are met and so procurements happen quickly. In India where the military is competly apolitical and ruled over by civil government 100% it is clear it is not as easy to push through defence deals. Also much of Pakistan's military purchases, especially the larger scale purchases, are done through government-government deals namely from China or US and for the big deals there is rarely ever an open competitive tender process like India has for almost every single defence purchase.Again it is clear Pakistan's method will be quicker but it hardly makes it better, in fact it leaves the door open to all sorts of corruption and Mal practice and doesn't ensure Pakistan gets the best for its money.

 

[SEAL]

Firstly, fair play- you've given a good, well written and reasonable reply. And I concede some of the points you have raised.


However saying the IAF has NOTHING over the PAF? This clearly isn't true, apart from out and out numbers it has larger quantities of 4th gen fighters as well as more AWACS, more AARs, more transports etc. And in many cases the quantity is backed by superior quality on example can be the AWACS of both nations, whilst it may seem the PAF about matched the IAF's AWACS on paper wrt numbers any person who knows anything about defence will tell you the IAF's PHALCON AWACS easily outclasses the ERIEYE or ZDK. Paksitan's own media has said in the past there is strong fear among the PAF brass that the PHALCON could simply jam all PAF AWACS.



To be fair this is because of a number of reasons. In Pakistan the military wields ridiculous power of the civil government and nance makes sure its needs are met and so procurements happen quickly. In India where the military is competly apolitical and ruled over by civil government 100% it is clear it is not as easy to push through defence deals. Also much of Pakistan's military purchases, especially the larger scale purchases, are done through government-government deals namely from China or US and for the big deals there is rarely ever an open competitive tender process like India has for almost every single defence purchase.Again it is clear Pakistan's method will be quicker but it hardly makes it better, in fact it leaves the door open to all sorts of corruption and Mal practice and doesn't ensure Pakistan gets the best for its money.

Actually thats very stupid and nonsense but not surprised coz its coming from you.
First see what Indian media saying Pakistan Air Force is a Leading Force why? reasons are mentioned.

Regarding slow procurements of Indian forces i will disagree with IceCold and you also giving lame excuse its all depends on what you want and money. Indian forces have money but they don't know what they want they see fancy brochures and then take years to decide which one is better. In case of Pakistan its fast because we know what our target and what we need to counter Indian machines so we order according to need and money. Our people are also very slow when it comes to new inductions.

 

[rockstarIN]

Indian forces have money but they don't know what they want they see fancy brochures and then take years to decide which one is better. In case of Pakistan its fast because we know what our target and what we need to counter Indian machines so we order according to need and money. Our people are also very slow when it comes to new inductions.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...air-force-leading-force-41.html#ixzz24lP1cqWn

You are wrong here. We take years to select something which gonna be mainstray of AF for the coming 40 years. 40 years are long period, as we both are 65 years old...think that way, we are not going to buy 123 cars or something..apart from technicals there are strategic and monitory things are involved. And we tested for years the air crafts which are the best in the world, some thing which we are gonna encounter if any air war breaks out..!

And about swift Pakistani acquisitions, there are several reasons, look east policy!, lack of choices etc. I'm sure given the PAF gets the same money as IAF, you could have taken longer time.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Actually thats very stupid and nonsense but not surprised coz its coming from you.
First see what Indian media saying Pakistan Air Force is a Leading Force why? reasons are mentioned.

Regarding slow procurements of Indian forces i will disagree with IceCold and you also giving lame excuse its all depends on what you want and money. Indian forces have money but they don't know what they want they see fancy brochures and then take years to decide which one is better. In case of Pakistan its fast because we know what our target and what we need to counter Indian machines so we order according to need and money. Our people are also very slow when it comes to new inductions.

WHAT??!! The Indian military doesn't know what it wants??!! FFS!! The Indian military is extremely proffesional and knows exactly want it wants and needs, it doesn't get distracted by shiny brochures- it decides what they need, draws up criteria and specifications for what they are looking for and sends these out to potential suppliers for further info and to get the "ball rolling". The nonsense that you have spouted is just absurd!!

And I feell I've been too kind to the PAF/Pakistani military- the reason procurements are so quick is because they have very limited choices unlike India which could have literally any weapon system it wants, so it is easy to select what to buy because it will be whatever is the cheapest or whatever China is willing to give as a "gift" or The US give as "aid"!!

 

[Bobby]

Pakistan dont have economy to fight any war....so no need to compare IAF to PAF

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Pakistan dont have economy to fight any war....so no need to compare IAF to PAF

economy is not at its strongest or anywhere remotely near its potential, that's for sure

but with that said, your pilots and your people ought to be reminded that our skies are not safe for your war planes....never have been and never will be -- regardless of political or economic situation

 

[scorpionx]

economy is not at its strongest or anywhere remotely near its potential, that's for sure

but with that said, your pilots and your people ought to be reminded that our skies are not safe for your war planes....never have been and never will be -- regardless of political or economic situation

In 1997 some UFO broke sound barrier at a height of 65000ft over Islamabad it seems.

 

[Bobby]

economy is not at its strongest or anywhere remotely near its potential, that's for sure

but with that said, your pilots and your people ought to be reminded that our skies are not safe for your war planes....never have been and never will be -- regardless of political or economic situation

I like to talk on facts and logic rather than bollowood dialogues...

 

[bandit]

economy is not at its strongest or anywhere remotely near its potential, that's for sure

but with that said, your pilots and your people ought to be reminded that our skies are not safe for your war planes....never have been and never will be -- regardless of political or economic situation

Dramatic Big talk without substance...

Try reading through the previous posts, that is exactly what is happening, our warplanes having a stroll up to Kharian and returning unharmed.

And this wasn't like the mentioned incident in 1997 over Islamabad, then the excuse was lack of capability to stop us, this time around it seems more like a lack of will.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

In 1997 some UFO broke sound barrier at a height of 65000ft over Islamabad it seems.

several UFOs wreacked havoc on your air bases such as Pattankot in 65, whats your point?

i'd be more worried about "USOs" docking at your financial capital and holding the entire city hostage for days --- then you can worry about taking on our air space -- which none of your pilots would do without punishment

And this wasn't like the mentioned incident in 1997 over Islamabad, then the excuse was lack of capability to stop us, this time around it seems more like a lack of will.

tell that to your 2 pilots who were "escorted out" by F-7s of PAF while warning sirens went off in your pilots' cockpits

they themselves i would imagine would be thanking their lucky stars that our men didnt pull the trigger on them; showed pity and mercy instead

 

[scorpionx]

several UFOs wreacked havoc on your air bases such as Pattankot in 65, whats your point?

i'd be more worried about "USOs" docking at your financial capital and holding the entire city hostage for days --- then you can worry about taking on our air space -- which none of your pilots would do without punishment

First of all i did not say our airspace is never safe for your pilots. Its you who came up with this idiotic claim.Now dont dodge the ball.