India: A Failed State and Sham Secular Democracy

[MilesTogo]

Actually, one fact that gets overlooked is that "west"'s transformation into a "fair and gentleman's" world is fairly recent. Go back 50-60 years and its was not a level playing field. Although, I don't deny West's success on the scientific innovation that has shaped the modern world and contributed to their wealth but a big part of that can be attributed to military success of the West. They had colonies supplementing their income and slaves building their infrastructure. I for one am not ashamed of a third world country status. We are improving and catching up. That's what matters.

 

[ambidex]

Actually, one fact that gets overlooked is that "west"'s transformation into a "fair and gentleman's" world is fairly recent. Go back 50-60 years and its was not a level playing field. Although, I don't deny West's success on the scientific innovation that has shaped the modern world and contributed to their wealth but a big part of that can be attributed to military success of the West. They had colonies supplementing their income and slaves building their infrastructure. I for one am not ashamed of a third world country status. We are improving and catching up. That's what matters.

Totally agree, and let me add we south Asian countries may have animosities with each other but we are developing without oppressing other nations and slaves. We had paid the price for theses superior parasites. Their so called nations were built by stealing and snatching resources from other nations. Yesterday's thugs are now today's Gentlemen. Their prosperity has smell of human discrimination and blood not ours.

 

[desiman]

OMG is it this Rizhaq guy again, I have been watching him for a while and the only thing he does is post crap articles and advertise his blog, isnt that against forum rules anyways lol Modsssssssssssssssssss

 

[Trisonics]

India is as failed a state as Pakistan, if not more so. And India's secular democracy is a sham.

Not unlike North Korea, India is engaged in a massive arms buildup while half of its children are near starvation. A nation-state like India that fails to take care of half its children's basic nutrition needs has to be a failed state.

It comes as no surprise that you are delusional and mighty jealous of India.
Experts in the field say the government’s role ought to be that of a catalyst, rather than an implementer or manager of change. The government cannot alone get rid of India's caste system or people who do not want to study!!!!! Neither can money change the situation in a day or neither will pamphlets claiming awareness change much!!!! All these can happen with education (which I have to claim, India is doing reasonable well in) and jobs. When a family lives out of steady income, they will improve, but will take at least one generation to improve!!!!

The myth about Pakistan being a failed state is being pushed by people who are either ignorant about Pakistan, or have an ax to grind.

why don't you take it up with people in the country you call home now???they were the "ignorant" experts to make claims of Pakistan being a failed state.

Here's a video clip of William Dalrymple comparing India and Pakistan:

YouTube - IQ2 Discussion "Pakistan: what next?" (8 of 12)

He actually makes some other excellent points that I wish to use later against your own posts

Do any serious analysts challenge the poverty and hunger figures for India, or the strength and scope of the Maoists insyrgency? Absolutely not! Even Indian officials agree with the data on hunger and poverty and malnutrition.

Not just our officials but most Indians do too. Again, this only begs the question that many people ask..inspite of world bank funds, financial aids why are developing countries not making great strides???? oh yes I should add, they never said anything about Indian govt failing, in fact they think procedures all across the developing needs change wrt poverty alleviation!

Dalrymple, a self-declared Indophile, is not alone in rejecting the myth of Pak being a failed state. Others who know South Asia and other parts of the world, such as Prof Juan Cole, Peter Bergen, and others, also reject this myth of Pakistan being a failed state.

Ok so do these experts who know South Asia well claim India is a failed state? Sir, you are making very, very weak arguments here!!!!! If they please do enlighten us as well. Advanced thanks from all Indians here

My reasons for saying that India is a failed state are simple: More than Pakistani state, the Indian state has miserably failed in meeting the very basic needs of its people (particularly children) for food, clothing, shelter and basic sanitation.

yes we know, but you may have forgotten to add India has done very well in providing drinking water to 84% of its population. yes, spanking latrines are still a luxury and causes enough embarrassment.

India is also a failed democracy and a bad poster child for democratic form of government. It's pervasive hunger, poverty, malnutrition, illiteracy, a huge and growing rich-poor gap, and a well-established system of caste-based Apartheid, and its terrible governance make its democracy a joke. And its history of widespread persecution of its minorities makes its secular label ludicrous.

Since you started of with a comparison between India and Pakistan, what can you tell me about Pakistan's clean record??? You also did say India is more "failed" than Pakistan, where did your facts and figures go wrt to the above statement??

In spite of the fact that India has been living on the old crumbs of outsourcing for the last 10 years the situation has hardly improved in the cities and villages of India.

Yes Sir, we have no fortune 500 companies from India at all. Can you name at least 3 from Pakistan, NO? at least one?
Can you name a car made in Pakistan? no? can you at least name a wrist watch made in Pakistan that may be bought outside the country?

I'm with you, Im tired of world's attention on India's IT, The new buzz words should be steel, pharma, automobiles, space etc etc

I hope other Pakistani's do not take me to be a troll. I do not believe Pakistan is a failed state. We all have the same problems!

Mr Haq, if you intend to compare, especially while writing such reports please do so with every quote and opinion of yours. I'm still hoping you can quote a few sources that call India a failed state!

Lastly I wish to add, if you called the the U.S. National Intelligence Council (NIC) and the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) as ignorant, what would you call your above report?

Thanks

 

[kabooooom]

we have better Roads, transport (except trains), schools, hospitals, even education system (but not the literacy rate), sewarage system in some parts of Pakistan is awesome i would far better than europe too but in most parts its very bad and similar is the case in India

I didn't want to get into mudslinging comparisons with anyone. So I'll point out that-
For better picture refer to 2 threads- 1.India developing but a long way to go. 2.comparison india-pak 2010.

well few questions-

1. If you consider pak education infra better how come gross enrolment ratio , predictably the literacy rate is that low.-thats for primary education & it means lack of capacity.

2. in higher education no Pakistani technical,medical,management,arts,science college or unuiversity figures in top 400 list except maybe 1.

3. How many PHD's , research papers , patents are filed every year.( just google it you'll come to know)

4. Health infra- how many PHC's are there per million/thousand popln in Pak.

5. Why do we see increasing number of Pakistani critical patients being treated in India ( Narendra hridayala Bengaluru, Sir Ganga Ram Delhi) for a wide range of medical complications including heart transplant.

6. Since you have avoided trains I wont say anything about that.

7. you have referred that some parts in Pakistan have better sewerage infra then even Europe (perhaps a case of jingoism).How can you be selective about infra( pls refer to my earlier post). I can say that where I live its better than 99% of world. But me saying it wont even have a slight credible reference to the state of infra in the country.

So i was just saying overall we have better infrastructure than India........ india will need to spend billions of dollars to become like Pakistan since the poverty ratio in india is too high........ but indeed India is economy rich so if she wants she can afford to improve its infrastructure in future unlike us (we need more time )

Now this statement belies any understanding. Overall picture is very different from what you perceive. We are not in any dick-measuring contest with anybody. Our aim is self-improvement so avg. Indian will be better off than previous generations.

Pls avoid selective amnesia and pushing things under the carpet approach.

 

[desiman]

Indian members please refrain from replying to this article, as not only it is baseless but also full of nonsense argument. The article only serves a few people who want to hear negative news about India regardless of whether it is true or not. As Indian's we know the truth and our responsibility is to continue to take our great nation forward as we have for decades.

Regards

DM

 

[Luftwaffe]

Both countries have BIG problems and issues but to say both countries are failed states sorry non of the country is a failed state system is just not implemented as it should be corruption is the main cause...for indians once in a life time accept that there are grave problems in india your maha india need reforms as well and let the ego of being Guru of the world go just be yourselves..for all in response to a single post you indians can write a book this in turn will make you project as being a culprit who is trying to justify and clear the case but nothing would it do except damage the credibility and image!
Don't reply to me if you've negativity up your heads..

 

[RiazHaq]

Here's George Friedman, Chairman of Stratfor, and author of The Next 100 Years, raising serious doubts about India or China staying united, much less emerge as great powers of the 21st century. He thinks Brazil or Russia would not emerge as great powers either, essentially dismissing all four members of the so-called BRIC.

He says India is regionally fragmented and it's very difficult to govern from Delhi as a united country.

He singles out the value of F-16s as a catalyst for recipient countries' technological growth.

He also argues that Turkey, not Pakistan or Iran, will emerge as a great regional power, and leader of the Muslim world.

Haq's Musings

 

[Bang Galore]

Both countries have BIG problems and issues but to say both countries are failed states sorry non of the country is a failed state system is just not implemented as it should be corruption is the main cause...for indians once in a life time accept that there are grave problems in india your maha india need reforms as well and let the ego of being Guru of the world go just be yourselves..for all in response to a single post you indians can write a book this in turn will make you project as being a culprit who is trying to justify and clear the case but nothing would it do except damage the credibility and image!
Don't reply to me if you've negativity up your heads..

Yeah, we have grave problems ;you just seem to have problems leading you to your graves.

 

[Luftwaffe]

did i hurt you for what i said about trying to be gurus of the world Pakistani members said nothing about we're this and that and wow weee...whose stopping you to demolish our graves come and we'll be out of our graves to haunt you..plain Stupid..

 

[ek_indian]

did i hurt you for what i said about trying to be gurus of the world Pakistani members said nothing about we're this and that and wow weee...whose stopping you to demolish our graves come and we'll be out of our graves to haunt you..plain Stupid..

First of all....all this is worked on.

Cast system: Already worked upon. There are laws in place for protection and reservation is place for development.

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/...=pWehHe7IsSU=&SEO=Mohan Bhagwat, RSS,casteism

Abolish caste system: SC, gives lifer to 6 for Dalit killings

Poverty: Already worked upon. There are various schemes and rules are already implemented. Google for MNREGA, Ladli scheme, Loan waived off etc. etc...

Now what next....one can search for anything if looked with an open mind which sadly Haq Musing does not has.

 

[neo4moss]

no offence meant; just facts pakistan as a country is runnin on aids and india is not

medical science has proved that running with diseases like "aids " is not a good sign. LOl

 

[Spring Onion]

If Somalia is not a failed state then NO state is a failed one.

And i believe there is no criteria for terming any state as failed.

 

[rubyjackass]

ohhhhhhhh breaking news INDIA is failed state.lol yaar kuch sharam kero.india is whatever but not a so called failed .i am sorry to say india is not going to be failed even 200 years from now.and what if india failed pakistan will fail atomaticly.beleve me.

Thank you Imran Saab.

I guess someone is too jealous.

But once in a while seeing these kinda posts reminds me of challenges India faces now. Its a good thing right? even if it is coming from a Pakistani. But I won't give them their dream picture of getting hypertension and running scared at such comments.

India now has a system that gives an infinite amount of time to set things right. THat doesn't mean things can be left as they are.

We need not be alarmists. Nor should we be the astute defenders of mother India's image. Just be sensitive to our condition. THere is always a better image we can work on.

 

[RiazHaq]

Contrary to conventional wisdom, George Friedman, Chairman of Stratfor, and author of "The Next 100 Years", sees the United States, Turkey, Poland and Japan as the great powers of the 21st century.

Friedman raises serious doubts about India and China staying united as modern nation-states, much less emerge as great powers of the 21st century. He says India and China are regionally fragmented and it's very difficult to govern the vast nations from from Delhi or Beijing. He does not foresee Brazil or Russia emerge as great powers of the 21st century either, essentially dismissing all four members of the the much-hyped BRIC countries.

Talking about the emergence of South Korea and Israel as modern industrialized states, Friedman singles out the value of the transfer by the US of F-16s as a catalyst for recipient countries' development of skills and technical know-how. He makes no mention of Pakistan's development of the F16 maintenance and training infrastructure at Kamra PAC for its F16s in this context.

Friedman says the Islamic World will recover from the current chaos imposed by the United States in its conflict with al Qaeda. He also argues that Turkey, not Pakistan, Indonesia, Iran, or Egypt, will emerge as a great world power, and the leader of the Muslim world.

Here's how Friedman describes the four great powers of the twenty-first century:

Japan, Turkey, and Poland will each be facing a United States even more confident than it was after the second fall of the Soviet Union. That will be an explosive situation. As we will see during the course of this book, the relationships among these four countries will greatly affect the twenty-first century, leading, ultimately, to the next global war. This war will be fought differently from any in history—with weapons that are today in the realm of science fiction. But as I will try to outline, this mid-twenty-first century conflict will grow out of the dynamic forces born in the early part of the new century.

Haq's Musings: Are India and Pakistan Failed States?