Independence Day celebrations in Toronto, Canada

[That Guy]

all other religions do not come up with lies about Islam and they teach their own non-Muslim faith. All other sects have same prophet and believe in finality of Prophethood on Muhammad (PBU).

Christians believe Jesus was crucified, do we suddenly declare them blasphemers? Again, this debate has nothing to do with what Ahmedis believe, and more to do with the government's right to interfere.

qadyanis can preach as a different faith.

Except they're not allowed to preach at all, whether as a different faith or not, as per the constitution.

yes there would be public disorder just try to give qadyanis free hand to come up with claims of a new prophet every now and then and you will see how this becomes a public disorder bigger than terrorism .

I don't believe that. I don't think Pakistanis are so weak willed as to get irrationally angry and riot, killing every Ahmedi they come across.

NO it is not their translation but false insertions. the translation of Quran throughout the world is the same only you can find difference with that of qadyanis

Lets say you're right. This still does not convince me that the government has the right to interfere in such matters. In fact, it actually strengthens my views that the government should not interfere, because it is a person's right to choose what they believe in, and no one else.

Never mind. Nothing to say on this thread.

You made the right choice. This thread turned into a shit show quite while ago.

 

[Spring Onion]

Christians believe Jesus was crucified, do we suddenly declare them blasphemers? Again, this debate has nothing to do with what Ahmedis believe, and more to do with the government's right to interfere.


Except they're not allowed to preach at all, whether as a different faith or not, as per the constitution.

I don't believe that. I don't think Pakistanis are so weak willed as to get irrationally angry and riot.


Lets say you're right. This still does not convince me that the government has the right to interfere in such matters. In fact, it actually strengthens my views that the government should not interfere, because it is a person's right to choose what they believe in, and no one else.


You made the right choice. This thread turned into a shit show quotes while ago.

Christians claim that as a different faith followers. You cannot negate the basics of Islam and still claim to be a Muslim you can have difference of opinion on all other things in Islam but on basics.

as far as again the government's powers are concerned YES everywhere in the world government can pass laws with approval from the parliament. take the example of ban on Muslim attire in many countries even in Muslim countries . We do , we can and we may oppose them but we cannot snatch their right to legislation under the democracy .

as far as public order well once again did you find even a single person carrying this case to supreme court to reverse the clauses about qadyanis? why?

 

[That Guy]

Christians claim that as a different faith followers. You cannot negate the basics of Islam and still claim to be a Muslim you can have difference of opinion on all other things in Islam but on basics.

Yet Ahmedis aren't even allowed to preach as a separate religion, as per the constitution

as far as again the government's powers are concerned YES everywhere in the world government can pass laws with approval from the parliament. take the example of ban on Muslim attire in many countries even in Muslim countries . We do , we can and we may oppose them but we cannot snatch their right to legislation under the democracy .

And this is where fundamental human rights come in. If your definition of a democratic government declared slavery legal, and said all dark skinned people at to be slaves, that does not make the decision to legalize slavery justifiable.

I've said it before, democracy is not about majority rule, its about equal and fair representation.

as far as public order well once again did you find even a single person carrying this case to supreme court to reverse the clauses about qadyanis? why?

This proves nothing. Have you seen me eat? No? Then that means that I never eat anything, ever; that is basically what you're saying here.

Tyranny of the majority. If a majority of people think that 2+2 =22, that doesn't make them right.

@Spring Onion

Anyway. It's 7am here. I've been on here all night, so I should probably go to bed.

It was pleasant talking to you, seriously, if only because you didn't get angry and started insulting other people.

 

[Spring Onion]

Yet Ahmedis aren't even allowed to preach as a separate religion, as per the constitution


And this is where fundamental human rights come in. If your definition of a democratic government declared slavery legal, and said all dark skinned people at to be slaves, that does not make the decision to legalize slavery justifiable.

I've said it before, democracy is not about majority rule, its about equal and fair representation.

this is how the parliament makes law and is according to rules. any law which is against human rights is protested by the people indeed but it does not take away the powers of a parliament to make laws unless the parliament is forced to change its decision.

This proves nothing. Have you seen me eat? No? Then that means that I never eat anything, ever; that is basically what you're saying here.

Tyranny of the majority. If a majority of people think that 2+2 =22, that doesn't make them right.

wrong or right that is another debate. the point here is promulgation of laws and the rules

@Spring Onion

Anyway. It's 7am here. I've been on here all night, so I should probably go to bed.

It was pleasant talking to you, seriously, if only because you didn't get angry and started insulting other people.

same here i do not insult people or anyone unless she or he insults me and cross the limit to a point where I have no choice but to respond in the same

 

[Dr Gupta]

Ahmedis are nice people but their founder even said he is Lord Kalki but each to their own. They should be protected as all minorities.

 

[Multani]

even after fierce opposition the consul general of pakistan in toronto kept the venue and showed up for a speech too !

why shouldn't he ? Ahmadies are Pakistanis !

Really? you call this dramey baazi as fierce loyalty? If they were really fiercely loyal to Pakistan, they would put Pakistan before their faith and accept the constitution of Pakistan that declares them as minority. They neither believe in democracy (the decision or dumb laws as you put it was made by the majority of lawmakers) nor in constitution and you sir are declaring them fiercely loyal.

Syed Sahib, you speak from an extraordinarily rational perspective, ma sha Allah very impressive. You have clarified the Ahmadi dilemma and confusion very clearly in just 4 lines.

Shia also complain (there are always protests are rallies when they're attacked by terrorists, and the gov fails to protect them),

i think, the decision was not unanimous, but in fact a consensus ! All other Muslim communities in Pakistan, all, agreed that they Ahmadies cannot call themselves as Muslims, because it makes no sense, and also presents a mortal danger to the preservation of Islam in Pakistan, because their matter concerns corruption at the very heart of the Islamic faith itself. Its about the survival of Islam in Pakistan. The laws are designed to prevent that and safegaurd insult or corruption of any religion in Pakistan.

This is a consequence of Ahmadi proselytizing. In Canada, it is intense. I saw them doing it in markets to Somalis of Rexdale, and was shocked by their sheer manipulation of the poor Somali refugee Muslims. Was the exact thing occurring in rural Pakistani villages for decades ? I dont know, but probably was.

 

[Metanoia]

It all started with @syedali73 first post on this thread calling the celebrations as "dramay baazi".

Sir why would you call the 14th August celebration organised by the qadiani community at a qadiani venue a "drama baazi". Just why?

 

[syedali73]

It all started with @syedali73 first post on this thread calling the celebrations as "dramay baazi".

Sir why would you call the 14th August celebration organised by the qadiani community at a qadiani venue a "drama baazi". Just why?

Because religious affiliation is put before Pakistan.

 

[Multani]

@syedali73 what you are saying is that the U.S. Allows gay marriage and weed in some states so I have to agree with both of these laws in order to be an American ? Even Americans disagree does that make them any less patriotic toward America ?

@That Guy

No, and Ahmadies are Pakistanis. They have the moral right to defy the clause, and SyedAli73 is right about the feelings of the vast majority of Pakistanis for communal harmony and their own moral right to oppose the Ahmadie community. gay marriage and weed is not the same as interference in the most basic, cherished, and vital belief of 99% Pakistani Muslims. If you believe that Rasool e Akram salat wa salam alaih is not the final Nabi, you are no longer a Muslim. There is no way out of this.

Pakistan is a religious democracy with Islam as state religion. I know Ahmadies believe in an Islamic State too ruled by Shariat under their fifth Khalifa. Pakistan is not a secular state as the US. Pakistani Muslims are a religiously conscious and united people and have consensus on many issues such as the fundamental belief or principle of the finality of Prophethood of Sayyiduna Muhammad salat wa salam alaih.

It is a different way of living, thinking, culture, and set of principles.

 

[Metanoia]

Because religious affiliation is put before Pakistan.

That absolutely stands true for the rest of the Pakistanis as well. In fact I would argue that qadianis, agha khanis or agnostic/athiest Pakistanis are more patriotic albiet putting their religion/believes first.

The majority of the Pakistanis would easily sell themselves to either the Arabs or the Persians. Don't you think so they're even bigger dramay-baaz?

 

[syedali73]

That absolutely stands true for the rest of the Pakistanis as well. In fact I would argue that qadianis, agha khanis or agnostic/athiest Pakistanis are more patriotic albiet putting their religion/believes first.

The majority of the Pakistanis would easily sell themselves to either the Arabs or the Persians. Don't you think so they're even bigger dramay-baaz?

No, they are not. They do not hold such celebrations outside places of worship and under the shadow of banners describing their religious affiliation.

 

[Spring Onion]

It all started with @syedali73 first post on this thread calling the celebrations as "dramay baazi".

Sir why would you call the 14th August celebration organised by the qadiani community at a qadiani venue a "drama baazi". Just why?

We Muslims do not hold such celebrations at our mosques.

No, they are not. They do not hold such celebrations outside places of worships and under in the shadow of banners describing their religious affiliations.

in another thread started by our qadyani brother with title independence day celebration at rabwah was one thing clearly missing and that was pakistani flag in these celebrations

 

[syedali73]

We Muslims do not hold such celebrations at our mosques.

in another thread started by our qadyani brother with title independence day celebration at rabwah was one thing clearly missing and that was pakistani flag in these celebrations

You have keener observation than me. Please post those photos or link to the thread.

 

[Spring Onion]

Never prevents your type of Muslims from holding 'death to so and so' demonstrations in front of mosques.

you can hold any celebration in front of mosques we are talking about inside the mosque