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In Pakistan, ‘liberal’ is a dirty word

And what is the liberalism... allow gay marriages, allowing gambling legal, and women to remove their clothes and just for photoshoots and to say this is women's freedom....same like happening in India. :argh:
 
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You should feel blessed that I even responded to you.
Thank you, O' Great One! I feel blessed that you responded to me! It is an honour of epic proportions!
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:P
 
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"Woman is an idiot and traitor. A western agent. Now all the liberals and Indians will jump on me and say that I am ignorant.As if I care. I have been and seen the world enough to declare this woman as an attention seeking traitor."




You yourself live in a western society yet who gives you the right to claim whether she is an agent or not. Atleast she is living there and has guts to express herself. Its her opinions and she has a right to express this. I think you should detract your baseless claims and counter her argument on a fundamental basis. As far as other nation postors go, they should genuinely support her instead of getting one on Pakistan.
 
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The writer is an author, most recently of Slum Child (2010). She has written for numerous publications including Dawn, The Friday Times and Chowk

Oh Manhoosa ki bat kar rahe ho bhai.. iska to stance bhi dirty hai.
 
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In Pakistan, liberals don't know that liberalism means they are as dictatorial and against freedom as are the Mullahs.
 
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The writer is an author, most recently of Slum Child (2010). She has written for numerous publications including Dawn, The Friday Times and Chowk

Pakistanis have no dearth of curse words to fling at each other at the best of times, but one of the most vitriolic terms in vogue today is the word ‘liberal’. The word is used by itself and in various combinations — liberal fascist, pseudo-liberal — in order to shame and silence an opposing point of view in heated debates about anything from Pakistani society and religion, to the formation of Pakistan and its ideology, to the war on terror. Yet, most people who do so, have no basic understanding of what liberalism really is, and in fact, are confusing it with other concepts in a way that is both ignorant and embarrassing to observe.
First of all, Pakistanis think of a ‘liberal’ as one who drinks, uses drugs, enjoins promiscuity and wears inappropriate clothing. But this is actually a ‘libertine’ — ‘a dissolute person, usually a person who is morally unrestrained’. The most famous libertine in history was probably the Marquis de Sade and while I doubt that anyone in Pakistan could match his debauched lifestyle, anyone who “spurns or ignores accepted morals and forms of behaviour sanctified by larger society” (from Wikipedia) is called a ‘liberal’ incorrectly.
A ‘liberal’ is not the same as a ‘libertarian’, someone who adheres to the political philosophy that individual conscience and individual choice is the highest of all principles. They are individualist, distrust state power, and idealise free market capitalism. This movement believes that all services should be privatised and that taxation is a form of theft. Pakistanis, out of whom only two per cent pay tax, seem to have perfected this tenet of libertarianism to a fine art, but our sense of individual conscience and choice is woefully underdeveloped by contrast.
So what is a liberal and what is liberalism, really? The dictionary states that liberalism is “a political orientation that favours social progress by reform and by changing laws rather than revolution”. The worldview of liberals is guided by the principles of liberty and equality in society and liberals generally espouse the concepts of constitutionalism, democracy, free and fair elections, equality between men and women, races and religions, human rights, state protection of minorities and the free exercise of religion.
Liberalism, born in the Age of Enlightenment, has been a powerful force for change in the world; both the American and French Revolutions were inspired by liberal philosophy, monarchies and dictatorships have been overthrown and replaced by democracies, and liberalism has challenged the ideologies of both fascism and communism. More recently, liberalism as a political movement has fired the revolutions of the Arab Spring, but Pakistanis deny and fight the historical impact of liberalism on our own political and historical heritage, when in fact the liberal concept of protecting liberty and individual rights was a major factor in the creation of Pakistan.
Now, the phrase ‘liberal fascist’, as empty as it is oxymoronic, a term that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, as the principles of liberalism — equality, justice, liberty — are completely at odds with the concept of fascism, which is a form of extremely authoritarian, intolerant right wing governance that takes away the civil rights of its citizens and uses force and violence to compel them into obedience. Perhaps a ‘liberal fascist’ is someone who wants to force their liberal viewpoint on those who disagree with them, but the very essence of liberalism is that it cannot be forced on anyone.
The other phrase, ‘pseudo-liberal’, is slightly less nonsensical than ‘liberal fascist’. In its current usage, Pakistanis use this term to mean a ‘fake’ liberal — someone who claims to be a liberal but in fact believes in and supports a less tolerant political ideology. What they probably really mean is someone who practices what has been termed ‘illiberal liberalism’ or ‘selective liberalism’. This means that a person holds double standards in their liberal worldview; for example, someone will espouse the right of Palestinians to have their own separate state, yet does not support the Kashmiris in the same aspiration.
The lesson to learn from this examination of the word ‘liberal’ and its Pakistani permutations is that Pakistanis are discussing political concepts without knowing what they really mean and conflating them illogically with social, religious, and moral ones. Instead of being proud of Pakistan’s struggle to espouse liberal values, we’ve turned the word ‘liberal’ into something to be ashamed of, and for a country whose intelligentsia claims to be so politically engaged, this is a disappointing and damaging path to tread.


In Pakistan,

Good article - I just wish it would have dispensed the myth that PPP is liberal
 
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Good article - I just wish it would have dispensed the myth that PPP is liberal

Come on Asim. Really?


The worldview of liberals is guided by the principles of liberty and equality in society and liberals generally espouse the concepts of constitutionalism, democracy, free and fair elections, equality between men and women, races and religions, human rights, state protection of minorities and the free exercise of religion.

This part really didn't make you laugh?



Do I have a skewed sense of humor??
 
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Pakistani "liberals" are anti-Pakistan and anti-Army. One of the comments in the article is mine, actually. And when traitors like Ahmed Rashid, Ayesha Siddiqa and Asma Jahangir call themselves liberal, those people who support the disintegration of the state of Pakistan, the murder of innocent Pakistani civilians and have their claws out for the Pakistan Army and the ISI, deliberately distorting facts to paint the Army and the ISI in a darker light, going abroad to malign their country in front of Western and Indian media, then these so-called "liberals" are to be condemned.
 
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Pakistani "liberals" are anti-Pakistan and anti-Army. One of the comments in the article is mine, actually. And when traitors like Ahmed Rashid, Ayesha Siddiqa and Asma Jahangir call themselves liberal, those people who support the disintegration of the state of Pakistan, the murder of innocent Pakistani civilians and have their claws out for the Pakistan Army and the ISI, deliberately distorting facts to paint the Army and the ISI in a darker light, going abroad to malign their country in front of Western and Indian media, then these so-called "liberals" are to be condemned.

Thank god for you sir. I thought I was going to be ostracized for being "anti-progressive" and "hateful".
 
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There are two things, a liberal, and a liberal wannabe. Wannabe is the person who goes around declaring that s/he is a liberal, in order to just get some attention and try to be different from us Muslim/crazy/terrorist/recessive/ rural Pakistanis.

It is the liberal wannabe who is the dangerous one, not the liberal.
 
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Reminds me of electricity stolen by Indians at our dams from the river flowing and railway ties offered by Britishers to your nation.

Both statement was made by leaders. Author is right about people using and misinterpreting words without any knowledge.
 
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The worldview of liberals is guided by the principles of liberty and equality in society and liberals generally espouse the concepts of constitutionalism, democracy, free and fair elections, equality between men and women, races and religions, human rights, state protection of minorities and the free exercise of religion.

You don't have to be a liberal to be able to do these things.

Islam, in it's original interpretation, also allows these things. Liberty, equality, freedom of religion, human rights, protection of minorities, all are a fundamental part of Islam and Haqooq-ul-ibad.

If a state is truly Islamic, all these things will be present.
 
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Main problem is ‘Hypocrisy’. Regret to advise that in my country of birth man on the street observes religious rituals but does not act on its principals. A poignant article published in the Daily News is note below. However people will ignore it because it has been written by a ‘Liberal’.
Religion without morality?


Ghazi Salahuddin
Sunday, July 29, 2012
From Print Edition

We have these two overlapping realities to contend with. In the first place, there should be no quarrel with the fact that the common citizens of Pakistan are overwhelmingly religious. A manifestation of this religiosity is strikingly evident in this month of Ramazan.

At the same time, the Pakistani society is infested with corruption, intolerance, lawlessness and a general intimation of moral and intellectual deterioration. And this state of affairs would not be possible without a penchant for deviant behaviour on the part of a very large number of people.

Now that Ramazan is here, the entire rhythm of our lives has changed. We do have some inspiring and engaging expressions of a collective participation in the observance of ‘roza’, with all its prescribed routines. Iftar becomes an occasion for family and friends to get together and this can be a socially gratifying experience. There is a kind of celebratory atmosphere and its tempo must gradually increase to welcome the festival of Eid.

With all this show of piety and spiritual righteousness, Ramazan does not bring any respite from the normal rigours of living in an almost anarchic and ungodly society. On the other hand, the real paradox is that violence and disorder tend to rise during Ramazan. Crime is also seen to escalate.

For instance, on the very first day of the Holy Month, there were three terrorist attacks. Nine persons were killed in a suicide blast in the tribal region of Orakzai. Near Gawadar, in Balochistan, seven personnel of Pakistan Coast Guards were killed in an ambush. Four persons died when a bomb exploded near a pick-up truck in Upper Dir.

So the cycle of violence is continuing and the law and order situation has worsened in Karachi. In fact, Ramazan is the month when shopkeepers go for larger profits, prompting extortionists to make larger demands. Besides, more people lose their temper more easily. Productivity falls in most sectors.

The point simply is that even when a remarkable majority submits itself to the devout discipline of Ramazan, our collective behaviour betrays no ethical revival or any inclination towards atonement of any kind. Those who indulge in corrupt practices continue to do so. The exploiters and the cheaters, though they fervently seek God’s forgiveness, remain unrepentant.

Indeed, the contradictions that are highlighted in this month have a larger and abiding significance. As I have alluded at the outset, it’s the juxtaposition of an obsessive religiosity and a deep-rooted malaise in a moral context that one cannot easily explain. There seems to be a symbiotic relationship between the two.

Having said this, I would hesitate to enter into a debate on the consequences of a passionate induction of religion in the public space – in politics. We just do not have an environment in which a rational debate can be held on these matters. It would be pointless, at this time, to emphasise that religion is not the business of the state. Remember that speech made by someone on August 11, 1947 – someone who is increasingly becoming irrelevant in this country?

Likewise, those who are genuinely religious and aspire to live in accordance with the universal values of truth and integrity and high moral values find it difficult to adjust to the prevailing circumstances. All around us, the ideals that would sustain a civilised community are disintegrating and the entire system is falling apart. Social injustice is manifest in the poverty and degradation of the underprivileged that are also deprived of human dignity.

Actually, there is no need to underline the gravity of the present situation because it is very much an accepted fact. Everyone you talk to gives the impression of becoming more depressed as new calamities unfold. There is no end to reports and events that illustrate the wickedness that has polluted our society.

On Thursday, British High Commissioner to Pakistan, Adam Thompson, said in Islamabad: “Unfortunately, you people are world leaders in visa scam. Forgery is a strong industry here”. He was obviously speaking with reference to the so-called ‘UK visa scam’ story published by the British tabloid The Sun.

Also this week, the Gilani Poll/Gallup Pakistan reported the results of two surveys conducted in their series on Ramazan and the role of religion in Pakistan. It was reported on Tuesday, with reference to ‘self-per caption as a religious person’ that 84 percent of Pakistanis define themselves as religious persons, 12 percent say they are ‘not religious’. Interestingly, one percent say they are atheists while three percent did not answer the specific question.

On Friday, it was revealed, with reference to ‘approaches to religion’, that 77 percent of Pakistanis say their approach to religion is to observe religious code, while 23 percent say they can serve religion through good human relations. Make what you may of these results. I will only point out that a large majority professes to be religious.

Would it not be fair to expect that a society that has so many ardent believers would be at peace with itself and generate honesty and trust in human relations? Would not they serve as a barrier to rampant corruption and misuse of power and authority? I do not know if these and similar questions are really important for religious people. Perhaps they are preoccupied with other matters.

Think of the dark passions that had been unleashed in the aftermath of the assassination of Salmaan Taseer. No one could have ignored the tide that was raised and even the government, duty-bound to honour the memory of its own leader, decided to surrender to the forces of extremism.

Take this as an aside because the fundamental challenge is to make Pakistan safe for all individuals of faith and to transform the lives of the most vulnerable sections of our society, particularly women and religious minorities. Terrorist violence that has left the social order in tatters is also seen to be rooted in religious bigotry and obscurantism. Sectarian killings constitute the most damning indictment of our collective religiosity.

Do we have the courage and the fortitude to confront these issues and undertake a sober and unprejudiced analysis of the uses of religion in our public life, particularly its impact on the democratisation of a backward, feudalistic and dogma-ridden society? Finally, it is all about social change and its direction.

Hence, we need to explore the dark continent that Pakistan has become. In many ways, we lead sinful lives and still seek, desperately, the bounty of heaven. It is like openly cheating in exams and then insisting that our degrees are legitimate.

The writer is a staff member. Email: ghazi_salahuddin@hotmail. Com
Religion without morality? - Ghazi Salahuddin
 
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Good article - I just wish it would have dispensed the myth that PPP is liberal

Come on Asim. Really?


The worldview of liberals is guided by the principles of liberty and equality in society and liberals generally espouse the concepts of constitutionalism, democracy, free and fair elections, equality between men and women, races and religions, human rights, state protection of minorities and the free exercise of religion.

This part really didn't make you laugh?



Do I have a skewed sense of humor??

That is the literal sense of the word.

Liberalism is a great concept, one that finds its basis in total freedom and equality. Pakistan's liberals are not liberals. They think being nanga punga is liberalism whereas that is optional - with no emphasis on it being a gauge of liberalism. True liberalism would be seen politically. Do we force religious edicts upon people in Pakistan? Yes we do (Case in point: The horrible declaration against Ahmedis every Pakistani must sign), do we allow freedom of press? Do we have laws that level every Pakistani as an equal Pakistani?
 
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Quite true.

Even people who would be considered moderates in the Pakistani context love to abuse the liberals.

It probably comes down from the "security state" and "ideological state" mindset that is too much interwoven in the fabric of the society. Any deviation is frowned upon.
 
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