IN MIG-29K + Vikramaditya

[DaRk WaVe]

Images from painting competition ?????

Those drawing are form PAF artists
here is the real one, happy now...

 

[TaimiKhan]

Guys, don't worry about JF-17, it will carry every indigenous weapon, Chinese weapons and hopefully in future, western weapon systems.

 

[Supersonic26]

u heard it now

Yup Indian ABMs are unbeatable, they can reach at 300Km from Gawdar within no time, their M2Ks can use LGBs from hundreds of KMs & bang Pakistan lost the war, where is the Indian Flag, sorry there ain't any

Dilpey naa lein emo ji. Mein tou maajak kar raha thaa lol. By the way drawing pics are cool. Specially the pic in which the black jet fighter been shown. Thanx.

 

[sancho]

Though Russian navy aquire also 24 Mig 29Ks in the same time frame, but most likely with Zhuk AESA, would it be possible that the additional 29 for IN could have AESA too?

 

[coolmesh842]

Though Russian navy aquire also 24 Mig 29Ks in the same time frame, but most likely with Zhuk AESA, would it be possible that the additional 29 for IN could have AESA too?

That means the ones ordered for IN don't have AESA?

 

[sancho]

That means the ones ordered for IN don't have AESA?

No, they have the same Zhuk ME radar that the upgraded Mig 29 of IAF also will have.
Posted some infos about it some pages before!

 

[notorious_eagle]

Hitting targets in kargil war too wasn't piece of cake or walk in the park emo ji. In a war everything is possible. Mumbai and gujraat aint far away from your gwadar port. Our war ships always petrols arabian sea ji. Specially after 26/11. All our ship needs to do is stay around 280 KM away from gwadar and fire brahmos. Kaam tamaam gwadar ka ho jayey ga ji.

Its good to be optimistic but its not good to be over optimistic , if you think Gwadar is an easy kill than i really dont know what have you been smoking up.

India's first option would be to take out Gwadar with air power. Gwadar is in Balochistan all the way near Iran's border, IAF's aircrafts will have to first gain air superiority over Sindh and Punjab which i highly doubt they will and than they can cross over to Balochistan. We can all eliminate this option because this option is simply not possible.

Now the second option as you have claimed is that IN ships have to be 280 km away from Gwadar and take it out with Brahmos, well my friend maybe you are forgetting but PN operates Harpoons, C802 and C803. They have range of more than 300 km, what good is the super duper Delhi class when its extremely vunerable to a highly sophisticated Anti Ship Missile like Harpoon II. There is no way IN would risk their prized asset and bring it that close to Pakistan's shore, so this is just fan boy thinking. Also to knock out a port completely IN would have to constantly keep firing their cruise missiles, one or two cruise missile wont do the job because repair work will start immediately after the attack. If the Indians could have done something they would have done it Post 26/11 but the reality is you guys simply dont have any military options over Pakistan because any attack by India will be reciprocated by Pakistan with sheer force.

You are absolutely right Gujrat and Mumbai are close to Pakistan, but its not the Indians who can only fire cruise missiles at Pakistan because we can fire cruise missiles at India too. Maybe your forgetting how advanced our Babur and Raad are, they are specifically designed to penetrate Indian Radars and Air Defences. Besides there is a very good chance the Chinese will have naval presence in Gwadar for their operations in Africa, the Indians wouldnt dare risk attacking their ships .

Its wishfull thinking by Indian fanboys to believe IN can knock out Pakistan's ports in case of war, and i wouldnt blame you fan boys for thinking that because India's propaganda machine has done a wonderfull job.

 

[gogbot]

Its good to be optimistic but its not good to be over optimistic , if you think Gwadar is an easy kill than i really dont know what have you been smoking up.

Who said it would be easy, But the odds are tilted in our favor.

India's first option would be to take out Gwadar with air power. Gwadar is in Balochistan all the way near Iran's border, IAF's aircrafts will have to first gain air superiority over Sindh and Punjab which i highly doubt they will and than they can cross over to Balochistan. We can all eliminate this option because this option is simply not possible.

IN has its own aircraft, and multiple carriers. Comprising a air wing of 60 plus Multirole fighters.
They will be the ones achieving air dominance in the region.

Keep in mind that the PAF will have its hands full with the IAF.

Now the second option as you have claimed is that IN ships have to be 280 km away from Gwadar and take it out with Brahmos, well my friend maybe you are forgetting but PN operates Harpoons, C802 and C803. They have range of more than 300 km, what good is the super duper Delhi class when its extremely vunerable to a highly sophisticated Anti Ship Missile like Harpoon II. There is no way IN would risk their prized asset and bring it that close to Pakistan's shore, so this is just fan boy thinking. Also to knock out a port completely IN would have to constantly keep firing their cruise missiles, one or two cruise missile wont do the job because repair work will start immediately after the attack. If the Indians could have done something they would have done it Post 26/11 but the reality is you guys simply dont have any military options over Pakistan because any attack by India will be reciprocated by Pakistan with sheer force.

India also has missiles with 300 km plus range.
Brhamos is just one in an array of systems.

Range is not an issue for the IN, it has both Numerical and qualitative superiority,

As long as PN submarines are kept at bay, there are no issue for the navy to face Gwadar in force, Causality likely, but Odds of failure unlikely.

Indian ships are equiped with anti missiles systems such as the Brack-2

we may loose a ships but Gwadar will not stand. Unless you cant tell me reasons as to how you plan to defeat a Carrier groups and Escort fleet.

You are absolutely right Gujrat and Mumbai are close to Pakistan, but its not the Indians who can only fire cruise missiles at Pakistan because we can fire cruise missiles at India too. Maybe your forgetting how advanced our Babur and Raad are, they are specifically designed to penetrate Indian Radars and Air Defences.

As you pointed out you have to fire more than one, How many can you fire, Before India replies in kind to launch coordinates.

Besides there is a very good chance the Chinese will have naval presence in Gwadar for their operations in Africa, the Indians wouldnt dare risk attacking their ships .

War is always the last thing anyone wants to do,
People only resort to it when no other options are left.
If India was in a place where it had not options, Do you really think Chinese ships would make us afraid., at thet point

It will be the chines who will pull out their forces and leave the country.
Unless they plan to suffer losses and join the war, which would we unfortunate but none the less a situation that we have been preparing for.

Its wishfull thinking by Indian fanboys to believe IN can knock out Pakistan's ports in case of war, and i wouldnt blame you fan boys for thinking that because India's propaganda machine has done a wonderfull job.

Some would say its wishful thinking to assume that all you would need are long range missiles to knock out the Indian Navy.

The only Challenge is see in decimating Gwdar is PN submarine force.

If i am mistaken gladly correct me.

 

[garibnawaz]

No need for a knee jerk reaction here.
IN is building a strong naval air fleet consisting of fixed and rotor aircrafts. We all can share our opinion and in my opinion after 2015 when Mirage-5 life in PAF is over it should be replaced by a dedicated naval JF-17 squadron. As mentioned by various sources PN has a desire to raise another squadron of MRCA and IMO it should be Chinese J-11C. I believe their are about 3 squadron of PAF for naval support all consisting of nothing but mirages. At least one squadron must be replaced by Rafales and the rest by JF-17s.
So JF-17s
J-11
Rafales should do the trick.
and not to forget 18-36 block 52+ stationed not so far away from Arabian sea which may work as stop gap with Harpoons once PAF/PN southern air command gets in better shape.

1) From where money will come for all this?

2) IAF has already maritimes squadrons of Su-30MKI and Jaguar IM.

3) Its not about what PAF has or will have. Its more about how they will manage IAF and IN (air wing) simulteniously. While IAF bombed out Karachi in 1971 not a single PAF aircraft was available for Karachi's defence as PAF was busy fighting IAF on the western front.

Same story with PAF on Eastern front where IN Sea Hawks were bombing Cox Bazaar and Chittagong and no PAF aircraft was available to fight with IN fighters.

GB

 

[garibnawaz]

Lets face it ....We r not getting any Raptor...What I had in mind was the naval Babur launched from F-22P...with a range of 700km...that will hit INS carrier even if its parked in bombay dockyard......JF-17 will take over from Mirage...we might not need a special AC for this role..as JF-17 can carry RAAD with 350km Range...Thus I guess the time for Harpoon and Exocet is over....I do would like to see a squadron of tHUNDER at GWADAR so the Indian fuel supply can be BLOCKED..and it will help take out any attempt by IN ship or Mig-29K to stop the blocked....

and you are not considering Barak-I and Barak-II at all in your plans???

All I can say is Happy Hunting.

remeber by the time MIg-29K reaches Gawadar ie (IF IT DOES) ,....it will be on very low fuel level......while Thunders will be close to their base in Gwadar... plus all our ships should have Ft-2000 rather thatn C-802A

This is where I explained you the difference between a combat range and actual range. Seems like you didnt understood me at all.

hey buddy. then why do Indians require Mig-29K? why not use the Mig-29A? both have same design both fly same.

You are wrong here. Please refer post # 10.

IN IAF IA first have to induct brahmos in its inventory then dream about next step.

Its already inducted in IA and IN. with IAF on Su-30MKI's its expected by 2012-13.

btw... their is something called CIWS and anti-AShM systems on frigates. PN is not using some 17th century pirates ships.

It will be interesting to see how these systems perform against world's only Supersonic Cruise Missile.

Not to forget IN was able to sink PNS Khaibar and PNS Muhafiz with subsonic P-15 missiles.

Both the boats had CIWS and AshM systems.

GB

 

[garibnawaz]

Some corrections for the Indian versions:



MiG-29K/KUB [Fulcrum-D]

The main role for Mig 29K on Vikramaditya and IAC1 will be, air defense and sea control and it seems to be suited for both:

- 4 to 5 times lower RCS
- detection of fighters with a RCS of 5m² size, in 120-150Km
- detection of destroyer size vessels in 300Km
- Topsight I HMS + R73 / R77 combo
- similar avionics mix like the MKI has
- up to 4 x Kh31A (up to 50Km), or Kh 35 (130Km) anti-ship missiles
- maximum combat radius, 850 Km/1300 Km/3500 Km (with internal fuel/external fuel tanks/in-flight refueling)

Thats a data from BR which is bit old. I can back up my claims.

GB

 

[garibnawaz]

is it possible to put a sam on a ship? like S300/S400?

Every Russian SAM system has its Naval Version. So practically you can't put the original S-300/S-400 on a warship but you can make their navalized versions.

For example Navalized S-300 SAM with its Radar on Russian Naval Vessel Marshal Ustinov

The S-300F Fort (Russian C-300Ф Форт, DoD designation SA-N-6, F suffix for Flot, Russian for fleet) was introduced in 1984 as the original ship-based (naval) version of the S-300P system developed by Altair with the new 5V55RM missile with range extended to 7–90 km (4-56 mi, equal to 3.8-50 nautical miles) and maximum target speed up to Mach 4 while engagement altitude was reduced to 25-25,000 m (100-82,000 ft). The naval version utilises the TOP SAIL or TOP STEER, TOP PAIR and 3R41 Volna (TOP DOME) radar and utilises command guidance with a terminal semi-active radar homing (SARH) mode. Its first installation and sea trials were on a Kara class cruiser and it is also installed on Slava class cruisers and Kirov class battlecruisers. It is stored in eight (Slava) or twelve (Kirov) 8-missile rotary launchers below decks. The export version of this system is known as Rif (Russian Риф — reef).

The S-300FM Fort-M (Russian C-300ФМ, DoD designation SA-N-20) is another naval version of the system, installed only on the Kirov class cruiser RFS Pyotr Velikiy, and introduced the new 48N6 missile. It was introduced in 1990 and increased missile speed to approximately Mach 6 for a maximum target engagement speed of up to Mach 8.5, increased the warhead size to 150 kg (330 lb) and increased the maximum engagement range yet again to 5–150 km (3-93 mi) as well as opening the altitude envelope to 10m-27 km (33–88500 ft). The new missiles also introduced the ultimate track-via-missile guidance method and brought with it the ability to intercept short-range ballistic missiles. This system makes use of the TOMB STONE MOD rather than TOP DOME radar. The export version is called the Rif-M. Two Rif-M systems were purchased by China in 2002 and installed on the Type 051C air-defence guided missile destroyers.

Both naval versions are believed to include a secondary infrared terminal seeker, similar to the newer US Standard missile system, probably to reduce the system's vulnerability to saturation. This also allows the missile to engage contacts over the radar horizon, such as warships or sea-skimming anti-ship missiles.

GB

 

[DeathGod]

1) From where money will come for all this?

100 baaton ki ek baat... In conventional warfare pakistan armed force are numerically and qualitatively inferior to Indian armed forces. There shouldnt be any question about that in anyone's mind.

As far as I can see I dont really think that pakistan will be able to challenge India's might in conventional terms. If pakistan prepares its defences well then maybe it wont loose much of its territories but will still end up loosing quite a few assets.

Though no war is nice , any war that pakistan fights with India will have disastourous consequences for her. I dont know if fellow pakistan brothers accept India's domination in conventional sense or not but for the ones that dont will have to face the hard truth that in a few years India's conventional superiority will turn into supremacy.

IMO the gap exists more on the navy and AF front as compared to Army.

If I talk only about the topic then also I can confidently say that Mig 29k on Vikramaditya will be a very severe threat to China and pakistan. Pakistan simply doesnt have the assets to nuetralise such threats, even if they use their cruise missiles etc the plain fact is that a carrier will be india's last line of defence and the stratergic depth that Vikramaditya will have due to frigates and destroyers of IN will make it nearly invincible.

 

[garibnawaz]

lol emo ji i never heard pakistani girls using word 'jhak marne key liye'. Pakistan has cruise missiles with longer range but 3 times slower and india can counter it with our defence while india has cruise missile with less range but 3 times faster and pakistan doesn't have anything to shoot it down.

Indian Navy Land/Boat/Sub launched missiles.

BrahMos 1 - 290 KMS Supersonic.(Deployed)
BrahMos 2 - ??? KMS Hypersonic (2012-13)
Shaurya - 700 kms to 1900kms - Hypersonic(2014-15)
Nirbhay - 1000Kms Subsonic (2012)
Sagrika (K-15) - 700 kms to 1900kms - Subsonic missile ready to deploy on INS Arihant and other Arihant Class Submarines.
KLUB Missiles - 300 KMS (Deployed)
Kh-35 Missiles - 130 Kms (Deployed)
P-20 Missiles - 80Kms (Deployed)

Indian Navy / IAF Anti Ship Air Launched Missiles.

BrahMos (2012-2013) - 300 Kms (Supersonic)
Harpoon Block II (2012-2013) - 300 Kms
Sea Eagle (Deployed) - 120Kms
Kh-59 (Deployed) - 285 Kms
Kh-31A (Deployed) - 50Kms

GB

 

[garibnawaz]

Pathological liar indian,

You dont have to get personal with anyone.

If someone is posting wrong info the person might be not well informed, you can always correct him with correct info with proper sources / links to back your claims.

GB