In Kerala, Inter-Faith Couple Lives in Fear, Plans to Request Chief Minister For Help

[Zarvan]

fine words...

and zarvan needs to spend less time with the mullahs ( and on wrong websites ) and more time reading good history and talking to better people... he is young and hopefully will realize what is true... and will participate in betterment of humanity.

i must go to sleep now.

I do my own research Mr both Gadafi and Nasser were nothing but scums and whole Libya celebrated Gadafi death

 

[Viking 63]

what a shame they should just leave the couple alone.

 

[abjktu]

What do you mean?

She wants to continue her studies in that college in kasargod..but the atmosphere is not at all safe her,So can't go back there....Why couldn't shift to any other colleges out of kasargod??.

 

[utraash]

Oh that - the famous Moplahs? That was a freedom movement, no?

Oh wait.

Freedom from what kafirs? So Kerala also had communal seeds....

 

[abjktu]

Oh that - the famous Moplahs? That was a freedom movement, no?

Oh wait.

It was very much similar to 'expulsion and massacre of Kashmiri pandits in 90's''...This will bound to happen when you consider RELIGIOUS identity more than LINGUISTIC/ETHNICAL identity...Mappila jihadis killed their own Malayalam speaking Hindus(10,000) for religion.....

 

[Infinity]

You know the Virgin Mary and Mary Magdalene are 2 different people, right?

A saying in Malayalam..................Don't fence the Sh!t........................

 

[Iggy]

Its sad a community which gave us people like aysha who was behind the literacy drive in Kerala, is going down to gutter..

 

[Levina]

The verses are there and the Muslim scholars have sat down countless times for them. Look, this is not even a matter of a reported "hadaith" based on accounts which may differ and could be up for greater doubt and debate. So any variance on the interpretation in regards to the Quran is generally very strict in its leeway on how the Arabic is to be interpreted.

Its like defining 12th Century English and saying that in today's times the meanings agreed upon by people then, and people after them.. are no longer applicable today. You cannot take Aramaic and say that the meanings of today's Aramaic or Sanskirt reflect more on the ideas than the meanings then. The same way if you tell someone from the 18th Century that you are removing bugs from your code.. they will understand it in terms of insects being removed from some secret code.. and not as a programming term because that meaning did not exist then. Hence the same way, there are is only certain amount of leeway you can achieve with the interpretation of these verses and those too much be seriously well backed up by other cross reference to verses or Arabic literature of the time.

Yes, inter faith marriages are bound to happen...and YES there are rather strict rules on them within the Quran. Its just how it is. There should be no need to apologize for it. If you do not agree with them as a Muslim then for the general society you will be cast out unless or until proven otherwise that you are not in violation of these edicts. So returning to the topic at hand, the girl's spouse must have converted to Islam before marriage or she will continue to be regarded as one who has committed sin and her marriage not considered legal.

Now comes the more prevalent issue of whether this can be changed to accommodate to the society.. well, here is the news flash for all apologists.. it cannot. Islam is accommodating but this is more like a cell taking in a body and making it a part of its shape rather than a fluid in a glass. That is just how it is and I believe in that as well (to make sure that I am not apologizing for it but stating the ground reality in my view).

Are there disagreements that could be brought backed in by enough theological and scripture based proof? I do not know, so far I have encountered none that have satisfied me. But I am ALWAYS open to these ideas if they are backed up by the aforementioned proof and not our wish to see it that way.

Some lines in your post struck me like a thunderbolt...

Yes, inter faith marriages are bound to happen...and YES there are rather strict rules on them within the Quran. Its just how it is. There should be no need to apologize for it.

Now comes the more prevalent issue of whether this can be changed to accommodate to the society.. well, here is the news flash for all apologists.. it cannot.

You sound like a conservative in the post yet in a part of your post you do sound as if you want all this to change ....

Its like defining 12th Century English and saying that in today's times the meanings agreed upon by people then, and people after them.. are no longer applicable today. You cannot take Aramaic and say that the meanings of today's Aramaic or Sanskirt reflect more on the ideas than the meanings then. The same way if you tell someone from the 18th Century that you are removing bugs from your code.. they will understand it in terms of insects being removed from some secret code.. and not as a programming term because that meaning did not exist then.

At times I feel as if your posts 're written by 2 different guys where one contradicts the other.
Trust me the notion that the Ummah is somehow preserved through the offspring of Muslim men is culturally archaic.I've believed that the spread of Islam has been through its message and its growth is maintained through the belief of its followers.
Assuming that men are the head of households and carry on family legacy then we also support the notion that women 're the primary caretakers and nurturers. Ergo religion and culture are more likely to be passed through the mother.
Now it doesnt make any sense that a practicing Muslim mother would not raise her children as Muslims. It makes even less sense that a non Muslim mother could be expected to raise her children as Muslim.
Let me ask you a question...if a Muslim woman finds a non muslim who respects her better than the Muslim men around her and with whom she connects better as well,then whom should she marry?? the non muslim or the muslim who doesnt respect her?
The beauty of Islam is that it guaranteed a minimum standard for women at a time when there was no standard...the men in ME were barbarians back then.These iIslamic laws were made for ppl back then where it assumed that the man following Islam would respect women.But what would you do if the muslim men themselves stifle her rights to chose the man she loves??
I dont believe Love is haram in Islam and for the same reason I believe that the woman would 've every right to marry a man of her choice. I seriously feel that many have misinterpreted Quran because right before her marriage and in the presence of everyone a (would be )bride is asked that if she would want to marry the (would be) groom?
"Qabool hai" is what she would say if she is ready to marry him...isnt it??
It means Quran gives woman the right to marry a man of her choice.Then where did it all go wrong?? why is she stopped from marrying a man of her choice who happens to be a non muslim??
Infact who is a good muslim?? a believer of god and the one who follows what has been taught to him by Prophet Mohammed.
And what was a muslim taught?? He was taught to be a good human,one who respects others and shoulders his responsibilities. In short a non muslim who follows the same teachings (may be in a different way) is as good as a muslim. Or should i interpret this as a good human being (whether a non muslim or muslim by birth) is the one who is right in front of God. God would not ponder over whether a person has been praying 5 times a day but God judges a person by his deeds.
A good human matters and not a religious man (though I do believe that a "true" follower of religion would be disciplined and a good human as no religion in its true sense preaches hatred).

I understand that the concern that a shift in traditional thought will have implications in Islamic law but it should not be considered a threat to Islamic traditions. Islamic law is not divine and it is not set in stone. It is a man made interpretation of divine doctrine and tradition.

I believe that there 're many Islamic scholars who recognize the need for development in Islamic legal theory and 're uncomfortable upholding traditions that are not prescribed in the Quran, yet few are willing to voice that opinion for they fear they would be boycotted.
When it comes to the rights of women we need to remember that Islam provided a floor and not a ceiling and we must be careful of twisting something into haraam that is not expressly prohibited.
I read this somewhere that in the Quran God declares, “…Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you…” (49:13) At another place in the Quran, God clearly states that all humans are equal: “To whoever, male or female, does good deeds and has faith, We shall give a good life and reward them according to the best of their actions.” (16:97)
I interpret that as Quran sees both men and women as equal.
And also the fact back in the 7th century Prophet Mohammed declared that the pursuit of knowledge obligatory on every Muslim ,male or female.So if the prophet Mohammed could be so broad minded to give education and equal right to women then why 're his other teachings misinterpreted??
I strongly believe that there's an urgent need to change the existing Islamic laws.

you could have just googled,, but i will explain...

1. aasyia andrabi... burqa from indian kashmir... she had started a terrorist campaign against kashmiri muslim ladies threatening them with acid attacks in case they didn't cover up.

2. tawakkul karman... burqa from yemen and member of a ikhwaani party... she helped nato in disinfo and propaganda campaigns against muammar gaddafi and bashar al-assad... this burqa promoted the mullah morsi of egypt... and for her help, the grateful usa government arranged the nobel "peace" prize for 2011... she is a usa puppet... she has helped nato murder 150,000+ syrians and 500,000+ libyans.

it is such females who deserve boycott not only from muslim community but from every thinking person in the world... actually, they deserve a socialist firing squad.

as for the kerala lady, anshida, i support her... i want other muslim ladies in india to go against their families and marry whom they like... no one should stop them from following their wishes... this is islam, that is socialism, that is humanity... anyone who wishes otherwise can drink a glass of ebola and see if their "pious-ness" and prayers help them survive.

Well in my immediate family one man is married to a muslim woman.She has not converted,neither was her family boycotted (she belongs to a very affluent muslim family).They've 2 kids the elder one is about 21-22yrs old.So I guess there're exceptions.
And you know the best part, she comes to temples with us (like Guruvayoor) @Ravi Nair

No its not between her and GOD. In Islamic she would be arrested and marriage will not be accepted but as she is living in non Muslim country her family just needs to end all relations with her complete boycott by Muslim community

The post above is just a reminder that exceptions 're there. I've no idea why she was not asked to convert or why her family did not face boycott. But I'm glad that it didnt happen

 

[Zarvan]

Some lines in your post struck me like a thunderbolt...



You sound like a conservative in the post yet in a part of your post you do sound as if you want all this to change ....



At times I feel as if your posts 're written by 2 different guys where one contradicts the other.
Trust me the notion that the Ummah is somehow preserved through the offspring of Muslim men is culturally archaic.I've believed that the spread of Islam has been through its message and its growth is maintained through the belief of its followers.
Assuming that men are the head of households and carry on family legacy then we also support the notion that women 're the primary caretakers and nurturers. Ergo religion and culture are more likely to be passed through the mother.
Now it doesnt make any sense that a practicing Muslim mother would not raise her children as Muslims. It makes even less sense that a non Muslim mother could be expected to raise her children as Muslim.
Let me ask you a question...if a Muslim woman finds a non muslim who respects her better than the Muslim men around her and with whom she connects better as well,then whom should she marry?? the non muslim or the muslim who doesnt respect her?
The beauty of Islam is that it guaranteed a minimum standard for women at a time when there was no standard...the men in ME were barbarians back then.These iIslamic laws were made for ppl back then where it assumed that the man following Islam would respect women.But what would you do if the muslim men themselves stifle her rights to chose the man she loves??
I dont believe Love is haram in Islam and for the same reason I believe that the woman would 've every right to marry a man of her choice. I seriously feel that many have misinterpreted Quran because right before her marriage and in the presence of everyone a (would be )bride is asked that if she would want to marry the (would be) groom?
"Qabool hai" is what she would say if she is ready to marry him...isnt it??
It means Quran gives woman the right to marry a man of her choice.Then where did it all go wrong?? why is she stopped to marry a man of her choice who happens to be a non muslim??
Infact who is a good muslim?? a believer of god and the one who follows what has been taught to him by Prophet Mohammed.
And what was a muslim taught?? He was taught to be a good human,one who respects others and shoulders his responsibilities. In short a non muslim who follows the same teachings (may be in a different way) is as good as a muslim. Or should i interpret this as a good human being (whether a non muslim or muslim by birth) is the one who is right in front of God. God would not ponder over whether a person has been praying 5 times a day but God judges a person by his deeds.
A good human matters and not a religious man (though I do believe that a "true" follower of religion would be disciplined and a good human as no religion in its true sense preaches hatred).

I understand that the concern that a shift in traditional thought will have implications in Islamic law but it should not be considered a threat to Islamic traditions. Islamic law is not divine and it is not set in stone. It is a man made interpretation of divine doctrine and tradition.

I believe that there 're many Islamic scholars who recognize the need for development in Islamic legal theory and 're uncomfortable upholding traditions that are not prescribed in the Quran, yet few are willing to voice that opinion for they fear they would be boycotted.
When it comes to the rights of women we need to remember that Islam provided a floor and not a ceiling and we must be careful of twisting something into haraam that is not expressly prohibited.
I read this somewhere that in the Quran God declares, “…Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you…” (49:13) At another place in the Quran, God clearly states that all humans are equal: “To whoever, male or female, does good deeds and has faith, We shall give a good life and reward them according to the best of their actions.” (16:97)
I interpret that as Quran sees both men and women as equal.
And also the fact back in the 7th century Prophet Mohammed declared that the pursuit of knowledge obligatory on every Muslim ,male or female.So if the prophet Mohammed could be so broad minded to give education and equal right to women then why 're his other teachings misinterpreted??
I strongly believe that there's an urgent need to change the existing Islamic laws.

Now this news took me by surprise that 45% of muslim women in America marry non muslims.
45% US Muslims marry outside their faith




Well in my immediate family one man is married to a muslim woman.She has not converted,neither was her family boycotted (she belongs to a very affluent muslim family).They've 2 kids the elder one is about 21-22yrs old.So I guess there're exceptions.
And you know the best part, she comes to temples with us (like Guruvayoor) @Ravi Nair

The post above is just a reminder that exceptions 're there. I've no idea why she was not asked to convert or why her family did not face boycott. But I'm glad that it didnt happen

Boycott should be done by Muslims and most Muslims don't like this so cut the crap

 

[Levina]

Boycott should be done by Muslims and most Muslims don't like this so cut the crap

whats the crap Zarvan Bhai??
Is it that woman should not be allowed to marry a man of her choice???
I would ask you the same question that I asked Oscar....if a Muslim woman finds a non muslim who respects her better than the Muslim men around her and with whom she connects better as well,then whom should she marry?? the non muslim or the muslim who doesnt respect her?

Answer me!!

 

[Zarvan]

whats the crap Zarvan Bhai??
Is it that woman should not be allowed to marry a man of her choice???
I would ask you the same question that I asked Oscar....if a Muslim woman finds a non muslim who respects her better than the Muslim men around her and with whom she connects better as well,then whom should she marry?? the non muslim or the muslim who doesnt respect her?

Answer me!!

Yes but should be a Muslim and if she marries a non Muslim and as this girl is living in non Muslim country they just needs to boycott her completely and her family needs to boycott her too as long as she stays with this man sorry but according to Islam this marriage never took place and children will be considered illegitimate.

 

[Levina]

Yes

statement 1

but should be a Muslim and if she marries a non Muslim and as this girl is living in non Muslim country they just needs to boycott her completely and her family needs to boycott her too as long as she stays with this man sorry but according to Islam this marriage never took place and children will be considered illegitimate.

statement 2
You're contradicting yourself Zarvan Bhai.
The moment you said YES you meant she had the right to be with a man who respects her more irrespective of his religion.And thats what matters.

 

[Armstrong]

whats the crap Zarvan Bhai??
Is it that woman should not be allowed to marry a man of her choice???
I would ask you the same question that I asked Oscar....if a Muslim woman finds a non muslim who respects her better than the Muslim men around her and with whom she connects better as well,then whom should she marry?? the non muslim or the muslim who doesnt respect her?

Answer me!!

Find another !

Just as a Muslim man cannot marry a Hindu woman irrespective of the connectivity between them !

So far as a Muslim woman marrying a Non Muslim man is concerned; if hes not from amongst the People of the Book than its absolutely out of the question just as it is for a Muslim man however when it comes to those from amongst the People of the Book - Its a grey area. The Koran doesn't prohibit that but Scholars employ analogical reasoning to deduce that because the Muslim man is explicitly given permission the absence of the Muslim woman in the relevant verses implies that she isn't given the permission to do so.

Conversely some contemporary scholars believe that a Muslim Woman is allowed to marry one of the People of the Book.

Which view is right....which isn't ? I don't know.

However at the end of the day its between her/him and their God.

 

[Chronos]

whats the crap Zarvan Bhai??
Is it that woman should not be allowed to marry a man of her choice???
I would ask you the same question that I asked Oscar....if a Muslim woman finds a non muslim who respects her better than the Muslim men around her and with whom she connects better as well,then whom should she marry?? the non muslim or the muslim who doesnt respect her?

Answer me!!

Oscar has answered you, and I believe he has given the right answer theologically. Any further delving into it might trigger a religious debate. which is against the rules.

Isn't this why secular laws exist? to protect individuals from the long arm of the religious law?

In a secular land, man-made, rational law supersedes that of old scriptures. That is, the right to freedom, liberty and individual rights should supersede the Bible, Quran, Bhagvad Gita etc.

btw, your lady who goes to Guruvayoor is a complete heretic in Zarvan's eyes, so don't bother.

@levina why do you look for theological justification? @Armstrong has also explained it.

As I said, secular law trumps religious edicts in a secular society. Zarvan and his others can think these sort of marriages are abomination all they want, they have the right to air these views.

Butif they want to impose their views, they can do so in their own Islamic nations. Otherwise they always have the option to leave.

 

[Levina]

Find another !

Just as a Muslim man cannot marry a Hindu woman irrespective of the connectivity between them !

So far as a Muslim woman marrying a Non Muslim man is concerned; if hes not from amongst the People of the Book than its absolutely out of the question just as it is for a Muslim man however when it comes to those from amongst the People of the Book - Its a grey area. The Koran doesn't prohibit that but Scholars employ analogical reasoning to deduce that because the Muslim man is explicitly given permission the absence of the Muslim woman in the relevant verses implies that she isn't given the permission to do so.

Conversely some contemporary scholars believe that a Muslim Woman is allowed to marry one of the People of the Book.

Which view is right....which isn't ? I don't know.

However at the end of the day its between her/him and their God.

I've already posted that the god doesnt judge a person by the number of prayers he offers or the number of verses he knows but by his deeds. I'm reposting what I had posted a while back

Trust me the notion that the Ummah is somehow preserved through the offspring of Muslim men is culturally archaic.I've believed that the spread of Islam has been through its message and its growth is maintained through the belief of its followers.
Assuming that men are the head of households and carry on family legacy then we also support the notion that women 're the primary caretakers and nurturers. Ergo religion and culture are more likely to be passed through the mother.
Now it doesnt make any sense that a practicing Muslim mother would not raise her children as Muslims. It makes even less sense that a non Muslim mother could be expected to raise her children as Muslim.
Let me ask you a question...if a Muslim woman finds a non muslim who respects her better than the Muslim men around her and with whom she connects better as well,then whom should she marry?? the non muslim or the muslim who doesnt respect her?
The beauty of Islam is that it guaranteed a minimum standard for women at a time when there was no standard...the men in ME were barbarians back then.These iIslamic laws were made for ppl back then where it assumed that the man following Islam would respect women.But what would you do if the muslim men themselves stifle her rights to chose the man she loves??
I dont believe Love is haram in Islam and for the same reason I believe that the woman would 've every right to marry a man of her choice. I seriously feel that many have misinterpreted Quran because right before her marriage and in the presence of everyone a (would be )bride is asked that if she would want to marry the (would be) groom?
"Qabool hai" is what she would say if she is ready to marry him...isnt it??
It means Quran gives woman the right to marry a man of her choice.Then where did it all go wrong?? why is she stopped from marryine a man of her choice who happens to be a non muslim??
Infact who is a good muslim?? a believer of god and the one who follows what has been taught to him by Prophet Mohammed.
And what was a muslim taught?? He was taught to be a good human,one who respects others and shoulders his responsibilities. In short a non muslim who follows the same teachings (may be in a different way) is as good as a muslim. Or should i interpret this as a good human being (whether a non muslim or muslim by birth) is the one who is right in front of God. God would not ponder over whether a person has been praying 5 times a day but God judges a person by his deeds.
A good human matters and not a religious man (though I do believe that a "true" follower of religion would be disciplined and a good human as no religion in its true sense preaches hatred).

I understand that the concern that a shift in traditional thought will have implications in Islamic law but it should not be considered a threat to Islamic traditions. Islamic law is not divine and it is not set in stone. It is a man made interpretation of divine doctrine and tradition.

I believe that there 're many Islamic scholars who recognize the need for development in Islamic legal theory and 're uncomfortable upholding traditions that are not prescribed in the Quran, yet few are willing to voice that opinion for they fear they would be boycotted.
When it comes to the rights of women we need to remember that Islam provided a floor and not a ceiling and we must be careful of twisting something into haraam that is not expressly prohibited.
I read this somewhere that in the Quran God declares, “…Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you…” (49:13) At another place in the Quran, God clearly states that all humans are equal: “To whoever, male or female, does good deeds and has faith, We shall give a good life and reward them according to the best of their actions.” (16:97)
I interpret that as Quran sees both men and women as equal.
And also the fact back in the 7th century Prophet Mohammed declared that the pursuit of knowledge obligatory on every Muslim ,male or female.So if the prophet Mohammed could be so broad minded to give education and equal right to women then why 're his other teachings misinterpreted??
I strongly believe that there's an urgent need to change the existing Islamic laws.

Oscar has answered you, and I believe he has given the right answer theologically. Any further delving into it might trigge a religious debate.

I guess thats a warning to me.Lol

Isn't this why secular laws exist? to protect individuals from the long arm of the religious law?
In a secular land, man-made, rational law supersedes that of old scriptures. That is, the right to freedom, liberty and individual rights should supersede the Bible, Quran, Bhagvad Gita etc.
.

Right!