anas_nurhafidz
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As always. See those comments with junk pics
indochinese
indochinese
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China has a stupid principle than. Let me give you an example, do you know what backlash Indonesia would get right now if they rioted and killled 1000 American expats?
Yes, you can bet aircraft carrier and cruise missile will be targeting Indonesian regime. Expect a regime change..
this kinda fucking up thread, filled with hatred and conspiration theories
It is certainly more interesting than this grim topic
this kinda fucking up thread, filled with hatred and conspiration theories
Can you tell me what your take on the whole thing is? I am interested to know.
this was mistakes in our history, the real thing is much more complex, a real mess and full of power struggles between factions within military and other parties. And this not a simple progrom against Chinese Indonesian like many Chinese poster in pdf believes, although most of them live thousands miles away and just getting a little bit information from internet.
Before the fall of Soeharto become more imminent in March 1998, the one big question arises, who will lead Indonesia after Soeharto? Some hardcore elements within Army wants the continuation of military dominated Indonesia, the other want Civilian rules and the end of military involvement in politics, the Islamist faction want Sharia, to add to the confution is the rising problem of separatist movement in Aceh, Papua and Maluku instigated by many who believe Indonesia will share the fate of Yugoslavia.
The problem is some hardcore elements within Army wants to create a justified reason and so they can impose military law and order to control the capital (Jakarta) and cornering their political opponents by guns barrel, in other word coup d'etat. So within that pretext, they creating a condition perfect for riots and other misshaps happened in Jakarta and other area in Indonesia. They pull out troops and police forces from Jakarta area (at the time police is under army command, unlike today which is under direct order from President) under disguise of training and among other reasons. And so many rioters and looter from rural area can "invade" Jakarta, and then May mayhem happened. And why so many Chinese become casualties in this incidents, it just happened many business districts and large shops and mall being run by Chinese ethnics, i can give u example so many casualties from other ethnics in Tanah abang and Borobudur mall cases who mostly owned by Padang and Arab ethnics. This riot was not intended and targeted against a single ethnic, but to create havoc and mayhem in Jakarta so the Army can impose military law and pressuring their civilian politician to abide by their will.
But their plan is foiled by the Marine Corps and other elements within Army who lean toward reformation, who still placed their loyalties toward President and constitution. The Marines commander who just recently came from Surabaya shook himself and dont believe from what he see, he found the Jakarta area is empty from any military formation and rioter can easily moving from place to place unhindered. And so to prevent a much larger tragedies happened the Marines quickly gather their troops and even transport the bulks from Surabaya which located 800 miles away from Jakarta in single night. They quickly restore the order and guarded most of area affected by riots. But the problems is not end just like this.
The hardcore faction within army, dont want to loose face again marines who foiled their plan quickly gather their strength back to Jakarta and even surrounding Istana Merdeka and Negara with tanks and artillery and put more pressure toward Soeharto to give them mandate to impose military law. But instead their move is coincided with large rally of Indonesian students who at the same time occupy National assembly and demands Soeharto resignation and back of civilian return to power in Indonesia. Facing with that, Soeharto cleverly choose to resign from his post and pick B J Habibie, a civilian as the next president.
this was mistakes in our history, the real thing is much more complex, a real mess and full of power struggles between factions within military and other parties. And this not a simple progrom against Chinese Indonesian like many Chinese poster in pdf believes, although most of them live thousands miles away and just getting a little bit information from internet.
Before the fall of Soeharto become more imminent in March 1998, the one big question arises, who will lead Indonesia after Soeharto? Some hardcore elements within Army wants the continuation of military dominated Indonesia, the other want Civilian rules and the end of military involvement in politics, the Islamist faction want Sharia, to add to the confution is the rising problem of separatist movement in Aceh, Papua and Maluku instigated by many who believe Indonesia will share the fate of Yugoslavia.
The problem is some hardcore elements within Army wants to create a justified reason and so they can impose military law and order to control the capital (Jakarta) and cornering their political opponents by guns barrel, in other word coup d'etat. So within that pretext, they creating a condition perfect for riots and other misshaps happened in Jakarta and other area in Indonesia. They pull out troops and police forces from Jakarta area (at the time police is under army command, unlike today which is under direct order from President) under disguise of training and among other reasons. And so many rioters and looter from rural area can "invade" Jakarta, and then May mayhem happened. And why so many Chinese become casualties in this incidents, it just happened many business districts and large shops and mall being run by Chinese ethnics, i can give u example so many casualties from other ethnics in Tanah abang and Borobudur mall cases who mostly owned by Padang and Arab ethnics. This riot was not intended and targeted against a single ethnic, but to create havoc and mayhem in Jakarta so the Army can impose military law and pressuring their civilian politician to abide by their will.
But their plan is foiled by the Marine Corps and other elements within Army who lean toward reformation, who still placed their loyalties toward President and constitution. The Marines commander who just recently came from Surabaya shook himself and dont believe from what he see, he found the Jakarta area is empty from any military formation and rioter can easily moving from place to place unhindered. And so to prevent a much larger tragedies happened the Marines quickly gather their troops and even transport the bulks from Surabaya which located 800 miles away from Jakarta in single night. They quickly restore the order and guarded most of area affected by riots. But the problems is not end just like this.
The hardcore faction within army, dont want to loose face again marines who foiled their plan quickly gather their strength back to Jakarta and even surrounding Istana Merdeka and Negara with tanks and artillery and put more pressure toward Soeharto to give them mandate to impose military law. But instead their move is coincided with large rally of Indonesian students who at the same time occupy National assembly and demands Soeharto resignation and back of civilian return to power in Indonesia. Facing with that, Soeharto cleverly choose to resign from his post and pick B J Habibie, a civilian as the next president.
Your effort to bring this kind of story is showing how you are like other Indonesian who pretend that this issue is non existence (sentiment anti chinese) and bring this story as diversion.
Yes I have seen something similar in a documentary that I watched a cpl years back.
Singapore news was quite full of propaganda though I did not realise it at the time....since Singapore is mostly Chinese ethnicity and the govt tends to always want to portray neighbours a lot worse than they are to help Singapore domestic image.
Thanks for your post....I like to have all the different perspectives.
It is like the Akira Kurosawa movie Rashomon.
When China had a massive famine in the 60s, PRC asked Malaysian Chinese tycoon for help to buy sugar. Robert kuok did not even hesitant and accep the request of PRC. He never make money from the process but just felt obliged as a Chinese to help China. What do u think? So when they are in trouble, China shall dump them?Hm... Okay but I think many of the Chinese Indonesians moved there during the 17th century so China doesn't really feel obliged to help them (?) They aren't recent immigrants and they have their own subculture and dialect with Indonesian accent and slangs, which isn't found in China. They even eat a special kind of food called Peranakan cuisine (or Chinese Indonesian cuisine), which includes dishes like "Nasi Tim Ayam".
Certainly I think if Chinese expats were killed, China would react. Expat meaning recent migrant, white collar professional worker in international company. But many of the Chinese Indonesians aren't "expats", they have been there for decades, some even centuries. Do they have any connections to China? Or what if they have connections to ROC (Taiwan) instead?
So I don't really know how to feel about this issue, but I'm just explaining why I think China may not feel responsible for them.
There is nothing new that you bring here, except you fail to address the article story.
If you read carefully the article, your story has been addressed well though not detail like yours.
But if you care to read the article and my information, you will see that the issue discussed here is not about : "Who is the actor behind the 98 riots", but about: "98 violence against ethnic chinese remain unaddressed" and also "sentiment anti chinese that still remain until now".
Your effort to bring this kind of story is showing how you are like other Indonesian who pretend that this issue is non existence (sentiment anti chinese) and bring this "Soeharto plot" story as diversion.
Eventhough the 98 riot is programmed by Suharto regime as you and other Indonesian like to bring to foreigner, but the easiness of mass to be provoked during 98 riots, or tanjung balai riot has shown how "sentiment anti chinese" was strong; and remain strong until now. You cant deny my information as I am telling the truth (have evidence). This is an act of hypocrisy that majority like to play.
i will not to answer you after this reply so dont bother to Quote me anymore, as you had tendency to put more value toward the Chinese ethnic,
the fact is not all of the May 98 casualties is came from Chinese descents, much is come from other ethnicities. THEY ALL THE SAME VICTIMS FROM THE SITUATION, THE COUNTRY IS FUCKED UP AT THE TIME.