In Indonesia, 1998 violence against ethnic Chinese remains unaddressed

[kaka404]

Those history research are meaningless. It can't solve seriouse real-life risk. I ask your question because I want you to find actual solution, not complain their crimes or have to ask for an apology. The real visible benefits are more important, and that will be precondition for the future.

i now am very confused to what is it that you're trying to ask??

in 1998 there was a huge movement. 1000s of students and mass are create a huge protest against suharto regime (the goverment) for failing to face the 1998 economic crisis. at time indonesians are releasing their frustration, their energy, their, focus toward the gov.
since the regime was f*up in the first place, and the mass grown so big that the army could no longer control them, to maintain their positions the regime at time "moved", as in divert, these mobs using provocateurs to release their frustration, energy, and focus away from the regime to something else. thus the riot occur.

so your first question was
"Why turn to anti-Chinese riots is a solution?"

so i answer
"the answer was already written there (on my first post)."

and then you said
"You still have not answered my question.
Why turn to anti-Chinese riots is a solution? Not the solution turning to anti-native Indonesian, anti-Indian, anti-Malay, anti-Dutch, anti-whoever?"


so i quote the line that answer your question

These actions by no means created anti-Chinese prejudice out of thin air. A long historical legacy of active construction of ethnic cleavages by Dutch colonial authorities and then by both the Sukarno and Suharto regimes, along with a seriously skewed concentration of capital in the ethnic Chinese commercial community in most major Indonesian cities, generated a sense among pribumi Indonesians of economic favoritism toward the Chinese.

which basically says that there was already a "rift" between indonesian tionghoa's and others in the first place. a "rift generated by the gov. it's these weakness that the regime exploit to start the riot. basically because the weakness is there...

and somehow that still not answer you first question? o_0'

you never ask me to give a suggestion on how to make sure that such even never happen in the future in your previous post...
and my first post actually give you the base on what to do... if prejudice, economical-social "rift", and favoritism is what the weakness that these regime exploit to start that riot, then to make sure that such riot would never occur in the future then remove them... educate the society, remove that gov favoritism and so on and so on... and obviously educate the mass not to get easily provoked and also don't provoke others. create a better bill and law, have a better political system... basically the things that indonesian has been doing since reformation...

ps: am not entirely sure why you said that historical research are meaningless, because as you can see here people learn from history to make a better future

 

[Place Of Space]

It's free.

Migrate to one area Indonesian don't hate Chinese or they will pay high cost of hating Chinese.

 

[Brainsucker]

Migrate to one area Indonesian don't hate Chinese or they will pay high cost of hating Chinese.

I don't understand, what do you mean by one area Indonesian don't hate Chinese or they will pay high cost of hating Chinese?

 

[kaka404]

Migrate to one area Indonesian don't hate Chinese or they will pay high cost of hating Chinese.

?? what?

 

[Place Of Space]

i now am very confused to what is it that you're trying to ask??

in 1998 there was a huge movement. 1000s of students and mass are create a huge protest against suharto regime (the goverment) for failing to face the 1998 economic crisis. at time indonesians are releasing their frustration, their energy, their, focus toward the gov.
since the regime was f*up in the first place, and the mass grown so big that the army could no longer control them, to maintain their positions the regime at time "moved", as in divert, these mobs using provocateurs to release their frustration, energy, and focus away from the regime to something else. thus the riot occur.

so your first question was
"Why turn to anti-Chinese riots is a solution?"

so i answer
"the answer was already written there (on my first post)."

and then you said
"You still have not answered my question.
Why turn to anti-Chinese riots is a solution? Not the solution turning to anti-native Indonesian, anti-Indian, anti-Malay, anti-Dutch, anti-whoever?"


so i quote the line that answer your question

which basically says that there was already a "rift" between indonesian tionghoa's and others in the first place. a "rift generated by the gov. it's these weakness that the regime exploit to start the riot. basically because the weakness is there...

and somehow that still not answer you first question? o_0'

you never ask me to give a suggestion on how to make sure that such even never happen in the future in your previous post...
and my first post actually give you the base on what to do... if prejudice, economical-social "rift", and favoritism is what the weakness that these regime exploit to start that riot, then to make sure that such riot would never occur in the future then remove them... educate the society, remove that gov favoritism and so on and so on... and obviously educate the mass not to get easily provoked and also don't provoke others. create a better bill and law, have a better political system... basically the things that indonesian has been doing since reformation...

ps: am not entirely sure why you said that historical research are meaningless, because as you can see here people learn from history to make a better future

"then to make sure that such riot would never occur in the future then remove them"
What to make sure that such riot won't happen again? Your good wishes and research of history can not, even in this thread more than 2 Indonesian has justified for 1998 riots and express it's good. You just hide your head in sand.

"obviously educate the mass not to get easily provoked and also don't provoke others. create a better bill and law, have a better political system.."
Who to educate the mass? You still can't realize it's not all about politics. If my China govt ask us to do riots against our minority such as Miao, Manchurian, Tujia etc., will we do that? No, members of our social consider them as brothers, we won't hurt them, whatever rift the govt want to generate.

I don't understand, what do you mean by one area Indonesian don't hate Chinese or they will pay high cost of hating Chinese?

What do I mean? The next riots happen, you guys has methods of fighting back and win.

 

[Brainsucker]

What do I mean? The next riots happen, you guys has methods of fighting back and win.

Please stop here. I don't think that the questions like that will give benefit to anyone.

 

[Place Of Space]

Please stop here. I don't think that the questions like that will give benefit to anyone.

" will give benefit to anyone"

You are really cute. It's the Indonesian hurt your benefits, more than one time. In this case you still think how to give benefits to everyone. If you are so childish, you are not on the same level to live with the cold-blood counterpart. Consider the worst situation, make actual prepartion for that. This is the attitude I advise.

 

[Brainsucker]

We can see much hatred and grudge instilled within many Indonesian today. One provoking article could spark much hidden hostility that stored deep inside. Why should 98 incident be connected with Chinese? and why should Chinese be singled out and focused in this issue? 98 is a historic year, as we achieved our 'freedom' and should be celebrated. I won't associate 98 with horror, i associate 98 with Hope. See the big pictures. That's why, good job Indonesia!

Seems that I miss understood you, forgive me. Well, I agree with you.

 

[kaka404]

even in this thread more than 2 Indonesian has justified for 1998 riots and express it's good. You just hide your head in sand..

i think you misunderstood what happen in indonesia at 1998... those who said that the 1998 event is a good thing are talking about the falling of new order regime. i agree with that, it is a good thing, that was one of the best thing that happen to indonesia. the small group of indonesian vs minority of indonesian riot that the gov started happens along with it....

If my China govt ask us to do riots against our minority such as Miao, Manchurian, Tujia etc., will we do that? No, members of our social consider them as brothers, we won't hurt them, whatever rift the govt want to generate.

again you misunderstand what occurred at that time. what is the state of the country at that time. the state of the people. the state of the government.... the gov don't ask indonesian,they don't give "order", to do riots against minorities ... the mass riots are already there at that time and was toward the gov... the gov then "drives" some of them away toward the minority a state of chaos within the rioters..

this is why one of the poster here said:
"this is Indonesian internal matter, not China, not any country can meddle in"

because by the looks of it obviously you don't understand what happen there at that time... and seems that you just want to focus on the riot toward some tionghoa communities as if the other riots, the shootings, the kidnapping, the killing that occurs in many places and so on don't matter to you.. you are seriously missing the big picture, and by what you post so far you seem don't even want to look at the big picture.

no wonder it's hard to answer your questions... we are talking about different things from the start...

 

[katarabhumi]

@kaka404 , he doesn't care with any answer you provide. He won't. I've been there myself. This is not the first time they bring up 98.

 

[Wolfwind]

I have to say that Chinese-Indonesians are not nationals of PRC. So unfortunately China does not have any obligations or responsibility to help them. It would be a nice gesture to do for ethnic Chinese but it would go against China's principles IMO.

 

[Place Of Space]

i think you misunderstood what happen in indonesia at 1998... those who said that the 1998 event is a good thing are talking about the falling of new order regime. i agree with that, it is a good thing, that was one of the best thing that happen to indonesia. the small group of indonesian vs minority of indonesian riot that the gov started happens along with it....

again you misunderstand what occurred at that time. what is the state of the country at that time. the state of the people. the state of the government.... the gov don't ask indonesian,they don't give "order", to do riots against minorities ... the mass riots are already there at that time and was toward the gov... the gov then "drives" some of them away toward the minority a state of chaos within the rioters..

this is why one of the poster here said:
"this is Indonesian internal matter, not China, not any country can meddle in"

because by the looks of it obviously you don't understand what happen there at that time... and seems that you just want to focus on the riot toward some tionghoa communities as if the other riots, the shootings, the kidnapping, the killing that occurs in many places and so on don't matter to you.. you are seriously missing the big picture, and by what you post so far you seem don't even want to look at the big picture.

no wonder it's hard to answer your questions... we are talking about different things from the start...

You'd better have a look at the title / topic. We are talking about 1998 violence agianst Chinese and the serial violence is still unaddressed. If you want to cheerleader the fuking Indonesian reform or whatever achievements, go to other thread. They don't touch a finger of Suhateo, they set fire, rape and kill Chinese. So you think it is reasonable and right Indonesian achievement or poltical reform improvement should be based on damaging Chinese benefits. It's pitiful you agree with it.

 

[Nilgiri]

I will never forget...
I will never forgive...
China is not what she was like in 1998.
We are not that barbarian country. But If any such thing happens again, I'm 100% sure China will never remain silent and will fight back.

We have seen how Chinese government and those patriotic overseas Chinese in Greece successfully helped thousands of Chinese citizens and other ethic Chinese to evacuate from Libya in such an efficient and effective way, while a lot of western nations simply "forgot" their own nationals in Libya.

I see confidence and competence, as well as the Chinese heart of those Greek Chinese.
They have rented any available hotel, bus, restaurant and planes to ensure the wellbeing and welfare of Chinese from Libya in the Greek Island of Crete. The Chinese government in mainland China and overseas Chinese communities ensured such a successful evacuation before the outburst of Libyan war, which is never seen in history.

If there were another time, history would never repeat.
@Daniel808


Lydia evacuation
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We will never forget...
We will never forgive...

I remember I was in Singapore at the time. I watched it all unfold from beginning to end and finally the fall of Suharto govt itself...and habibie and later gus dur taking over.

A number of Chinese Indonesians came to Singapore (quite wealthy folks). I made good friends with one of them. We never talked about what happened....but I think he was shielded from it anyway to a large degree. But there was definitely unease about the whole matter as our school had many indonesians as well.

You'd better learn from Tamil, Achinese. Tamil all together live in Bali, Achinese living in Aceh.

Tamil is an ethnicity in India. There are a few Tamil-Indonesians living around Medan area (they even have their temple) descended from some merchants....but Balinese people are NOT tamil....they are mostly Hindu its true....but that is different (its like confusing Taoism with Cantonese etc).

Hope you understand.

 

[Place Of Space]

I have to say that Chinese-Indonesians are not nationals of PRC. So unfortunately China does not have any obligations or responsibility to help them. It would be a nice gesture to do for ethnic Chinese but it would go against China's principles IMO.

Principles can changes. China want to be a mature nation and a reponsible nation, we have all obligation to help Chinese in Indonesia. If a nation and people won't take responsibility to help its own ethnic, who the hell will trust you. You even don't help Chinese yourself, the Pakistani, Cambodian, Monglolian, Korean, Laotian, Tajik...will believe you help them in danger?

 

[kaka404]

You'd better have a look at the title / topic. We are talking about 1998 violence agianst Chinese and the serial violence is still unaddressed. If you want to cheerleader the fuking Indonesian reform or whatever achievements, go to other thread.

i am talking about the gov driven riot that took place at 1998 in indonesia which was used to divert the other riots that occur at that time.. a cruel political decision and move by an f***up regime. a small part of a big picture that occur at 1998..

you are talking about a non-existence riot that occur at 1998 in indonesia where nothing else happen except the gov order the mass to riot against tionghoa's communities.. and that is the only big picture.

yes we are talking about 2 different things.

which one of us whom are on topic? i'm not entirely sure anymore.

if the thread starter and a few first posters want to talk about what really happen in indonesia at 1998 and focus on the riot that occur toward some tionghoa's communities. then i'm very sure that i'm on topic. and i'm ok with that kind of discussion... it's fine to focus on a small picture as long as you understand the big picture.

if the thread starter and a few first posters want to talk about the non-existence riot in indonesia at 1998 where nothing else happen except the riot towards tionghoa's communities, then i would agree that i'm off topic. and allow me to apologise for that.