In bid to defend sovereignty, Indonesia plans to change name of South China Sea to Natuna Sea

[GerhardA]

It reminds me old Chinese tactic :合縱 Every country only did for their interests, unite to prevent Chinese, one word: difficult. Chinese will lure their ally with some gifts, and Some countries will turn back their head to China.

In SCS case? Not gonna happen. No country will give away their sovereignity for chinese "gifts".

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

one vote from me : for Natuna Sea

Not East Vietnamese Sea?

@Viet @AViet

 

[BoQ77]

Not East Vietnamese Sea?

Did you see Vietnam support illegal fishing? No, we support Indonesia govt act

 

[GerhardA]

asean is a ghetto league: viet kong, phil, Indonesia, all 3 claimants' military forces and industrial capabilities are too WEAK and BACKWARD to do anything. The outcome of the scs conflict will be decided by the three big powers: U.S, Japan, and Australia. Once the dust is settled, the Paracels and Spratlys, and maybe some part of Hainan will be controlled by those powers.

If conflict does happen, with whom do you think most, if not all ASEAN countries would ally themselves with?

If push comes to shove, you would be alone fighting the US, ASEAN, Japan, Taiwan, Australia and maybe NATO and South Korea. Russia probably won't even bother helping you because they've got nothing to gain and if they do, NATO will 100% join in and it will start WW3.

Sure ASEAN is mostly not that advanced (outside of Singapore and maybe Indonesia + Malaysia + Thailand + Vietnam to a degree) but we do have tons of manpower to help out the US and it's Allies.

Do you really think you alone can survive against half of the world? I doubt you'd last very long. Especially alone. And after the war, you'd lose the SCS plus some of your own area in the mainland plus your superpower status. And if you started the war, you'd end up like Germany and Austro-Hungary at the end of WW1.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

No big superpower though can take on the whole world.

Right now, China has pissed too many countries in the region. The combined strength of those countries approaches that of China.

are you sure? their population, GDP and enlisted military added together isn't even half of China's.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

It reminds me old Chinese tactic :合縱 Every country only did for their interests, unite to prevent Chinese, one word: difficult. Chinese will lure their ally with some gifts, and Some countries will turn back their head to China.

The problem is that your fellow countryman @BoQ77 is willing to give up everything just to contain against China, even at the expense of Vietnam's national interests.

 

[BoQ77]

The problem is that your fellow countryman @BoQ77 is willing to give up everything just to contain against China, even at the expense of Vietnam's national interests.

Wrong. As we respect other´s legal EEZ, agreed for common boundary, so we dont think we have to give up anything.
As you dont know Vietnam and Indonesia have no maritime dispute

 

[X-2.]

That way, Indonesia is participating in SCS conflict.

Lol

In bid to defend sovereignty, Indonesia plans to change name of South China Sea to Natuna Sea
The plan would involve renaming the sea surrounding the Natuna Islands, which lie to the northwest of the Indonesian part of Borneo, within their 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone

PUBLISHED : Thursday, 18 August, 2016, 10:59am
UPDATED : Thursday, 18 August, 2016, 10:59am
Comments: 2

In a bid to maintain its sovereignty in the region, Indonesia announced on Wednesday evening that it will seek to change the name of the South China Sea to the Natuna Sea in the area within 200 miles of its Natuna Islands.

Ahmad Santosa, the Chief of Task Force 115, an agency combating illegal fishing, said the proposal will “be given to the United Nations”, adding that “if no one objects ... then it will be officially the Natuna Sea”.

The plan would involve renaming the sea surrounding the Natuna Islands, which lie to the northwest of the Indonesian part of Borneo, within their 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone.

The islands’ mayor, Hamid Rizal, said the change was aimed at helping people to understand that section of the sea belongs to Indonesia, and to help fight illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing in Indonesian waters.

On Wednesday, Indonesian Independence Day, authorities sank 60 vessels – 58 foreign boats and two domestic vessels – because of such fishing. Most of these were in the Natuna area, which is often claimed by China as a traditional fishing ground.

The same day, Minister of Fisheries and Marine Affairs, Susi Pudjiastuti, said “my ministerial role is dealing with fish and all natural resources from the sea. I do not talk about sovereignty of political territories. I am talking about sovereignty over fish and ocean marine resources. As long as the fish are swimming in Indonesia’s EEZ, they are Indonesian fish. If someone takes it from there, it is illegal.”

Susi added that Indonesia only has a fishing rights agreement with Malaysia in the Malacca Strait. She highlighted that Indonesia does not recognise any traditional fishing ground, referring to Chinese claims in Natuna’s waters.

Since December 2014, Susi’s ministry has sunk 236 vessels.

The vessels are left to become artificial reefs for fish. However, five of them will become a monument in Pangandaran, West Java. Next to the monument, Susi’s ministry will make the International Maritime Museum, assisted by the United States and Norway.

Besides sinking the ships, Susi also held a groundbreaking ceremony for a detention centre for illegal fishing on Indonesia’s Independence Day. The building will have a capacity of 300 to 500 people, and is estimated to be finished before the end of 2016.

To develop the Natuna Islands, Indonesia will also build an integrated fisheries area, which will include a 200 tonne cold storage capacity.

The South China Sea has been the site of numerous clashes over territorial claims, with China asserting its claim more aggressively in recent months with extensive land reclamation and building of military facilities on reefs and islands in the sea.

China’s claim to much of the sea overlaps land claims by the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan, and also overlaps Indonesia’s exclusive economic zone around the Natuna Islands.

The Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague recently ruled that China’s claim was invalid, and that it had caused irreparable damage to the marine environment in the region.

Rip !

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

DESPERATE MOVE!

Imagine how chaotic the world will be if UN allows all these to happen. Changing the established NAME of these seas e.g. Sri Lanka changing the water around its to Sri Lanka OCEAN instead of Indian Ocean.

 

[Sliver]

DESPERATE MOVE!

Imagine how chaotic the world will be if UN allows all these to happen. Changing the established NAME of these seas e.g. Sri Lanka changing the water around its to Sri Lanka OCEAN instead of Indian Ocean.

India recognizes SL's EEZ.
does not dispute and call all of SL's seas as "traditional fishing grouds" (even though they actually are).
tiny SL has many times impounded India's fishing boats and India did not show any power, instead accepted its mistake.

so why would SL want to change any names?

The name change request from Indonesia is a response to Chinese claim of Indonesia's EEZ as "traditional fishing area" of the Chinese. By that logic, all of the world was a traditional hunting ground for african nomads who came out of africa.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

India recognizes SL's EEZ.
does not dispute and call all of SL's seas as "traditional fishing grouds" (even though they actually are).
tiny SL has many times impounded India's fishing boats and India did not show any power, instead accepted its mistake.

so why would SL want to change any names?

The name change request from Indonesia is a response to Chinese claim of Indonesia's EEZ as "traditional fishing area" of the Chinese. By that logic, all of the world was a traditional hunting ground for african nomads who came out of africa.

I am only using Sri Lanka as a possible example which you cannot ruled out in the future or can you?

but there will be others once a precedent is set. Do you UNDERSTAND?

 

[Sliver]

I am only using Sri Lanka as a possible example which you cannot ruled out in the future or can you?

but there will be others once a precedent is set. Do you UNDERSTAND?

1)this is a reaction for another "precedent" that has been set - claiming the EEZ of other nations based on unilateral understanding of demarcation.
2)The proposal to rename the sea is with the UN right now and a decision will be taken based on UNCLOS laws.
3)as said in point #1 this is a reaction for an unprecedented move by another country claiming an EEZ of another country unilaterally. once that changes, these issues will not crop up.

 

[GerhardA]

I am only using Sri Lanka as a possible example which you cannot ruled out in the future or can you?

but there will be others once a precedent is set. Do you UNDERSTAND?

Problem is SL doesn't have a reason to bother changing the name of the ocean or sea. Their stronger neighbor is not a acting like a kid who's just found out that he's now stronger than his peers and decides to act like a thug, bully everyone around him, and takes anything he wants, because now his peers are weaker than him. Unlike a particularly arrogant new "superpower" in the South China Sea.

So no, it won't be a precedent for anyone. Because noone needs to do the same thing.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

1)this is a reaction for another "precedent" that has been set - claiming the EEZ of other nations based on unilateral understanding of demarcation.
2)The proposal to rename the sea is with the UN right now and a decision will be taken based on UNCLOS laws.
3)as said in point #1 this is a reaction for an unprecedented move by another country claiming an EEZ of another country unilaterally. once that changes, these issues will not crop up.

In other words, nations can do anything they like in response or justification e.g. committing terrorism in other nation (Which sound a bit extreme but is a fact).

That is why India was denied its entry in NSG but ordinary emotional Indians do not understand why and keep on blaming China. A dozen of other nations that also opposed were not named in the India media attack.

Can the world continue to be lawless and laws to be interpreted by some states like USA's TPPA where they can simple extend the agreed limit of their patent rights to whatever period they like?

UNCLOS is about WATER and extending the original 12NM limit does not given them the right to claim the historical territorial of other nations otherwise India should packed up and leave Nicobar and Andaman Islands.

Problem is SL doesn't have a reason to bother changing the name of the ocean or sea. Their stronger neighbor is not a acting like a kid who's just found out that he's now stronger than his peers and decides to act like a thug, bully everyone around him, and takes anything he wants, because now his peers are weaker than him. Unlike a particularly arrogant new "superpower" in the South China Sea.

So no, it won't be a precedent for anyone. Because noone needs to do the same thing.

What is right with you guy? Isn't my explanation clear enough? I merely state SL as a possible example only and can you dispel that if it happens or when it happens.

In histories, India and Indonesia has been THUGS and BULLIES to weaker nations around them e.g. Konfrontasi and the illegal invasion of East Pakistan, Maldives or even GOA which was around 400 years before British Raj came.

 

[GerhardA]

In other words, nations can do anything they like in response or justification e.g. committing terrorism in other nation (Which sound a bit extreme but is a fact).

That is why India was denied its entry in NSG but ordinary emotional Indians do not understand why and keep on blaming China. A dozen of other nations that also opposed were not named in the India media attack.

Can the world continue to be lawless and laws to be interpreted by some states like USA's TPPA where they can simple extend the agreed limit of their patent rights to whatever period they like?

UNCLOS is about WATER and extending the original 12NM limit does not given them the right to claim the historical territorial of other nations otherwise India should packed up and leave Nicobar and Andaman Islands.


What is right with you guy? Isn't my explanation clear enough? I merely state SL as a possible example only and can you dispel that if it happens or when it happens.

In histories, India and Indonesia has been THUGS and BULLIES to weaker nations around them e.g. Konfrontasi and the illegal invasion of East Pakistan, Maldives or even GOA which was around 400 years before British Raj came.

Konfrontasi was not against a weaker country. It was against Malaysia AND the Brits. It was a fair fight. Your situation now on the other hand is just straight up a big country shitting all over the sovereignity of smaller countries because "we are stronger, what can they do?" THAT is bullying.