Imran now stopped at UK immigration

[Bang Galore]

Again, you are mixing two separate concepts:
- foreign aid is provided by governments to further their agenda.
- foreign donations are provided by individuals to support their pet causes.

Imran Khan is not averse to foreign money, only to the agenda it (may) underwrite. If foreign NGOs are doing good humanitarian work in Pakistan, he wouldn't oppose them. But if some government thinks their aid money entitles them to go around killing Pakistani civilians, then Imran Khan will say no to that government money.

He is running for a set of principles. Whoever supports those principles is welcome to support his campaign, regardless of their place of residence.



Again, government aid money is not the same money as private citizen donations.

I guess he is guaranteed of your vote at the least.......

 

[AstanoshKhan]

if he keeps begging , he get the treatment of a begger?

Beggars are better than stealers... The Brits were stealers (thieves), they came to subcontinent and stole everything even the diamond in queen's crown were stolen from somewhere in India, even the Brits have given protection to the criminals of my country - namely Altaf Hussain and Pervez Musharraf and I don't know how many others... so one won't wonder why a Pakistan loving citizen who is praised and followed by other Pakistan loving millions of people would be harassed by the hands of the Brits...

 

[AstanoshKhan]

The fund raising and his political views are not the problems. Failure to declare in violation of rules is the issue, which was not applicable in the past, due to the amounts involved and how they were carried or declared.

As I said, IK is not a fresh whoop to go on Intl. flights without following the procedure of respective immigration authorities. Anyway, if you fail to report your monetary instruments equal to or more than $10,000, customs officials may take the money from you. Customs officials may also assess hefty fines or civil and criminal penalties for not reporting the monetary instruments. So I guess with IK, none of the penalties or charges has taken place and therefore your claim of dollars being transferred illegally is not valid.

Let me ask you again, would you agree with me on the matter that Imran's critique of Western foreign policies is creating problems for himself?

 

[Cent4]

as long as he can think of a way of proving the fund are being used as it should be, people will donate but with current event of corruption in Pakistan, dont be surprised if funds are not enough to leap imran khan forward. it time imran start selling cricket bats with his signature and cricket ball signature or sell some imran cards or something for fund raising.

My friend he is running a political party not a novelty shop.

 

[TechMan]

Not a dream, but a fact, that IF there were a need to do so, denial of entry is still the host country's right.

Denial of entry is totally different then stopping someone at airport and questioning. Do not mix up two different issues. Even denial is not possible because if that happens then they will inform before some head of state/government arrives here.

 

[Cent4]

I was not planning to comment further but maybe i will make my point clearer.
Imran Khan is going to countries whose policies he opposes & believes are damaging to Pakistan for only one reason - money! Whether he only collects from Pakistanis holding dual citizenship is irrelevant. They are still citizens of the countries he is now opposing. This is a man who has been promising that he will stop the war against terror thereby implying that Pakistan can & will somehow manage without the aid it receives. He doesn't even seem to manage an election campaign without foreign funds, does that not strike you as questionable? Further elaboration is both unnecessary & pointless, either you see it or you don't.

There is no comparison with this "begging bowl" with what politicians do in other countries. In most countries, it would probably be illegal and even if it were not, you would see very few cases of running after a few thousand/millions when you are promising to risk billions with your policies. austerity must start at home, don't you think?

What austerity........ please elaborate where should he cut corners while running a political campaign. Its not illegal to raise fund in foreign countries, Romney didn't came to London for sightseeing.

 

[Cent4]

Not a legal point, only an ethical one. If you promise to ask your citizens to tighten their belts & do whatever is necessary in the face of an aid cut off, the least you can do is to not go to those very same countries (regardless of who is funding) with a begging bowl. He can't seem to run an campaign without "foreign" money, how does he plan to run the country? If overseas Pakistanis want to give, they can but there is no reason for Imran Khan (& by extension, Pakistan) to allow himself to be so humiliated.



Not my point. I have simply offered no opinion on this matter, only pointed out what looks to me to be incongruent with stated positions.



As i said before, it was a moral point, not a legal one.
Btw, India does not allow dual nationality.

You can not justify your point even morally my friend.

People do not cut corners themselves look at Spain, Greece. Policies have to be imposed by Govt. Which he is not so when he comes in Govt we can bash his policies then.

PPP raises fund from overseas and also internally from industrialist and there swiss accounts.
PML-N raises fund from overseas and takes money from ISI
MQM raises funds in the form of BHATTA

So yeah I think PTI is still ethically and morally far better than these parties.

jab miyan biwi razi tu kya takleef hai kazi ko.

 

[VCheng]

You claimed that Western society treats all people equally and there are no VIPs. The fact is that powerful people get away with all sorts of perks, whether its commercial travel (preferential boarding), government contracts or other areas of life.

For extreme examples, I suggest you look into the various criminal cases around the Kennedy clan over the years and how they magically escape conviction. At least three separate cases come to mind. Money and influence buys justice even in the US of A.

Granted, Western society is more fair than South Asia, but blanket assertions such as yours are also not justified.

But I did not make any claims about fairness of western society at large. I only said that Imran Khan's contention that he was discriminated against at the point of entry on the basis of his political views simply does not hold water.

Oh, and you forgot this part:

...............
BTW, how does Imran's perceived status as "royalty" impose any expectations on implementation of C&BP procedures in USA? How can it and should it?

VIP ho ga to apnay mulk mein.

Denial of entry is totally different then stopping someone at airport and questioning. Do not mix up two different issues. Even denial is not possible because if that happens then they will inform before some head of state/government arrives here.

Whether it happens or not due to prior intimation as you mention, it is nevertheless the right of the host country to deny entry should it deem it necessary. It may never be exercised, but the right would still exist.

 

[VCheng]

As I said, IK is not a fresh whoop to go on Intl. flights without following the procedure of respective immigration authorities. Anyway, if you fail to report your monetary instruments equal to or more than $10,000, customs officials may take the money from you. Customs officials may also assess hefty fines or civil and criminal penalties for not reporting the monetary instruments. So I guess with IK, none of the penalties or charges has taken place and therefore your claim of dollars being transferred illegally is not valid.

Let me ask you again, would you agree with me on the matter that Imran's critique of Western foreign policies is creating problems for himself?

The whole interview is on record. Notice how Imran Khan has not taken the complaint any further with those authorities who he claims wronged him, but merely making political hay on the domestic scene.

The authorities MAY confiscate the money not declared. Then again, they MAY be satisfied after additional questioning to let it go.

I did not say any money was illegal. I said it MAY have been undeclared.

What Imran Khan criticizes or supports is entirely up to him to decide.

 

[niaz]

Imran Khan is internationally well-known and thus a public figure. Therefore it is expected that Customs & Immigration staff would be more diligent in their work.

Additionally, his views about Islamic extremists and his refusal to condemn Taliban outright make him a prime target for the news media. Suppose Imran was allowed in without any checking and some nosey journalist reports that Imran was carrying more than 10,000 Euros but was not checked by the Airport Customs, the official involved would be at the wrong end of a severe tongue lashing if not more.

On the other hand, when an ordinary Joe such as I is detained at the entry or punished for anything whatsoever, no one would care or give a fig about it. Unfortunately being a public figure has some downside as well.

 

[TechMan]

Whether it happens or not due to prior intimation as you mention, it is nevertheless the right of the host country to deny entry should it deem it necessary. It may never be exercised, but the right would still exist.

haha since now you have nothing else to say, you are talking about rights. I will say it again in case you didn't get it the first time, if Imran Khan becomes PM or President and he goes to USA or UK on official visit then no one can stop him at the airport. Not even US president if he want to.

 

[VCheng]

haha since now you have nothing else to say, you are talking about rights. I will say it again in case you didn't get it the first time, if Imran Khan becomes PM or President and he goes to USA or UK on official visit then no one can stop him at the airport. Not even US president if he want to.

We are talking about a hypothetical situation at this point, and I will maintain my position, while respecting your right to hold on to yours.

Let's see: A foreign head of state is on an official trip, but his plane is being used to smuggle a nuclear device. The plot is discovered shortly before the plane is due to land in New York for a UN meeting. ..... ..... Nice movie line, no?

 

[Developereo]

But I did not make any claims about fairness of western society at large. I only said that Imran Khan's contention that he was discriminated against at the point of entry on the basis of his political views simply does not hold water.

Wrong. This is what you wrong in your typical sanctimonious manner.

It is time people realize the application of the same law for everyone. This VIP attitude as if one individual somehow deserves deferential treatment may work in Pakistan, but not in most western countries.

And I showed you that there is VIP status in every country, including the US. The privileged classes live in a whole different plane of existence the world over.

Oh, and you forgot this part:

VIP ho ga to apnay mulk mein.

Well, you added that part later so I missed it initially. Yes, no one should expect special treatment anywhere, but it is customary to extend that courtesy if people in the host country are familiar with the celebrity. It is a matter of reciprocal courtesy, not a legal requirement.

Of course, if the host country has never heard of cricket or Imran Khan, then it's a moot point.

 

[VCheng]

...........
Well, you added that part later so I missed it initially. Yes, no one should expect special treatment anywhere, but it is customary to extend that courtesy if people in the host country are familiar with the celebrity. It is a matter of reciprocal courtesy, not a legal requirement.

Of course, if the host country has never heard of cricket or Imran Khan, then it's a moot point.

Like I said, VIP ho gaa to apnay mulk mein.

Other than the limited usefulness to make domestic political points, I see no other merit to Imran Khan's "troubles". His US immigration processing was done according to the required legal standards. That is all I have maintained on this issue all along.

Oh, and what happens to people who give off a VIP sense of entitlement over here? Perhaps you might be aware of this incident:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/06/showbiz/alec-baldwin-flight/index.html

 

[Developereo]

Like I said, VIP ho gaa to apnay mulk mein.

Other than the limited usefulness to make domestic political points, I see no other merit to Imran Khan's "troubles". His US immigration processing was done according to the required legal standards. That is all I have maintained on this issue all along.

Oh, and what happens to people who give off a VIP sense of entitlement over here? Perhaps you might be aware of this incident:

'Rude' Alec Baldwin fled to toilet, booted from plane - CNN.com

Depends how the celebrity behaves, of course. No one likes a narcissistic baboon.

Most celebrities tend to behave graciously -- courtesy is a two-way street. From all that I have seen, Imran Khan doesn't seem to be a prima donna -- at least not these days.