Imran met Munter in ISI chief’s presence

[Emmie]

No one's lagacy will remain forever. So what? Is debating about personalities or even institutions a debatable thing? Where are the minds whoes vision see beyond centuries?

How do you define "forever"? Bhuttos since 1967, Mians since 1988! Obviously no one is going to live forever, this fact is not relevant my dear friend.

Is debating about personalities or even institutions a debatable thing?

Yes why not? Will you allow a morally corrupt individual to rule the country? Well, I think not. Your own party debates on institutions, how can you build institutions without a constructive debate?

 

[Doctor09]

Throw them out by casting vote against them and in favor of a suitable candidate.
Why wasting time on discussing them? Are they worth discussing? Debate about the solutions that we should propose to bring about the "real" change.

now you are saying something sensible ..... according to above criteria N league should be thrown out

 

[Khalid Mian]

IK is untried yet , so it might be his chance next, we want to see his practical work.

Is being "untried" enough to give political power to some one?

 

[Doctor09]

Then first we should learn what is really debatable and what is not. At least the personalities, we waste our time discussing about, are not worth discussing. IMHO. Issues, that must be addressed.

BTW you misinterpreted my post which was criticism in a light way on N league about false propaganda ... before going to any conclusion ask someone to clarify it rather going personal

 

[Emmie]

Then first we should learn what is really debatable and what is not. At least the personalities, we waste our time discussing about, are not worth discussing. IMHO. Issues, that must be addressed.

What issues precisely? Susti rooti scheme? Green buses? Black-cum-yellow taxis? Tax paying? Foreign assets? Exiles? You please suggest us.

 

[Khalid Mian]

How do you define "forever"? Bhuttos since 1967, Mians since 1988! Obviously no one is going to live forever, this fact is not relevant my dear friend.



Yes why not? Will you allow a morally corrupt individual to rule the country? Well, I think not. Your own party debates on institutions, how can you build institutions without a constructive debate?

The problem is not particular parties od personalities. The problem is "the ruling class" that come in different guises again and again. Therefore I suggest to talk about system that lets the ruling class rule us, not about particular people. Institutions? They are there to protect that "ruling class" so change the system. No one should go unhooked.

 

[Doctor09]

Is being "untried" enough to give political power to some one?

we have no other best option except IK ... and we dont want to be fool again by the hands of same old politicians who are only power hungry and have no concern about Pakistani nation

 

[Khalid Mian]

now you are saying something sensible ..... according to above criteria N league should be thrown out

Yes. Why not. As I said earlier, no one is indispensible. But who will throw them out or any one we want to throw out, we. By voting against them. Not by abusing them. Thats what I am trying to convay. Why we should waste our energy in negativity?

---------- Post added at 02:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:34 AM ----------

we have no other best option except IK ... and we dont want to be fool again by the hands of same old politicians who are only power hungry and have no concern about Pakistani nation

Accepting same people from that "ruling class". Doesn't this show power hunger on part of IK? I really dont think that being only on politically strengthened position could bring real change.

 

[Doctor09]

Yes. Why not. As I said earlier, no one is indispensible. But who will throw them out or any one we want to throw out, we. By voting against them. Not by abusing them. Thats what I am trying to convay. Why we should waste our energy in negativity?

then you should edit your previous posts which was personal attack on me . then we can discuss things in much better way

---------- Post added at 10:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 PM ----------

Yes. Why not. As I said earlier, no one is indispensible. But who will throw them out or any one we want to throw out, we. By voting against them. Not by abusing them. Thats what I am trying to convay. Why we should waste our energy in negativity?

---------- Post added at 02:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:34 AM ----------



Accepting same people from that "ruling class". Doesn't this show power hunger on part of IK? I really dont think that being only on politically strengthened position could bring real change.

dear the old political system is based on bradarism and jageer darana system it should be changed now and IK can do this ... and in other parties same Jageerdasrs are present and they cant work against their own system

 

[Khalid Mian]

then you should edit your previous posts which was personal attack on me . then we can discuss things in much better way

I never mentioned you. There is even no use of word "you" in any of my posts. I was addressing a particular behaviour. Any way, I must say sorry if any thing have hurt any one.

 

[Khalid Mian]

then you should edit your previous posts which was personal attack on me . then we can discuss things in much better way

---------- Post added at 10:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 PM ----------


dear the old political system is based on bradarism and jageer darana system it should be changed now and IK can do this ... and in other parties same Jageerdasrs are present and they cant work against their own system

I am not optimistic about this approach thogh. I may be wrong. But moving the lawn doesnt mean we have changed the grass. The grass (system) will remain their. Turkish model of gradually moving towards changing the roots of the system may be a long but more effective way to bring about the change.

---------- Post added at 02:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 AM ----------

What issues precisely? Susti rooti scheme? Green buses? Black-cum-yellow taxis? Tax paying? Foreign assets? Exiles? You please suggest us.

We don't even have our own code of law. The basics of any state. What laws are running our country? Roman? British? Islamic? Any solution, please?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

At some point this is bound to happen
whether it really happened at that point is irrelevant
Americans have their stakes here and they will keep in touch with all the stakeholders be it politicians or the Military

Americans will seek to speak to anyone who they think can keep the country from falling into complete chaos because it doesn’t suit them.

Any politician who has enough political experience knows too well to stay on top of the state of affairs and it’s a political maturity that he is willing to meet both the foreigners and the components of the state of Pakistan if he is to become the leader of Pakistan.

The only issue remains is what this alleged meeting or the future meetings will entail? A safe exit? Be allowed to transfer funds to middle east or Europe? Or actually confirming oneself as a credible leader that is followed and loved by Pakistanis but has the personality and calibre to talk to other nations as a dependable leader.

 

[Emmie]

The problem is not particular parties od personalities. The problem is "the ruling class" that come in different guises again and again. Therefore I suggest to talk about system that lets the ruling class rule us, not about particular people. Institutions? They are there to protect that "ruling class" so change the system. No one should go unhooked.

For the sake of argument lets talk about PMLN, "N" in PMLN stands for Nawaz, the problem in this case is merely not a problem related to one ruling class, the name of the party is also a problem in itself.

Who is going to to rectify faulty system that allows ruling classes to renter? Obviously PPP and PMLN won't bother to even touch the system's configurations, they are part of the system..

Now you answer me do you find IK a part of this dirty system?

 

[Doctor09]

I am not optimistic about this approach thogh. I may be wrong. But moving the lawn doesnt mean we have changed the grass. The grass (system) will remain their. Turkish model of gradually moving towards changing the roots of the system may be a long but more effective way to bring about the change.

---------- Post added at 02:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 AM ----------



We don't even have our own code of law. The basics of any state. What laws are running our country? Roman? British? Islamic? Any solution, please?

whatever the laws are . they are made by Politicians and they must be obeyed and its cant be the justification that laws are british, islamic etc.. as long as they are present in constitution they must be followed . when these politicians themselves not obey they law and dont pay taxes then how can you think that public will obey the law and will pay the taxes honestly

 

[Khalid Mian]

For the sake of argument lets talk about PMLN, "N" in PMLN stands for Nawaz, the problem in this case is merely not a problem related to one ruling class, the name of the party is also a problem in itself.

Who is going to to rectify faulty system that allows ruling classes to renter? Obviously PPP and PMLN won't bother to even touch the system's configurations, they are part of the system..

Now you answer me do you find IK a part of this dirty system?

I dont see him a part of it as a person. But, when all the rejected people from the former politcal parties are running towars this newly emerged party seeing their chance of holding power again, I feel that he will become a part of it too. Any thing that goes into salt mine becomes salt (translation of a Persian saying). So the problem is "salt mine". We neend to breath in fresh air, not in that old salt mine again.