Imran factor draws PPP, PML-N closer

[Majnun]

^ To be honest, with all thats going on in Pakistan. We should pay more attention to Pakistan than India Occupied Kashmir at the moment.

The average Pakistani will not give his/her vote based on Kashmir policy anymore. No offense to Kashmiris, but even I'm losing interest in Kashmir issue when theres so much happening in the country, and I used to bring up Kashmir dispute every other day in this forum 2 years ago. It doesn't mean Imran Khan will accept LoC as International Border or give into India's demands, it just means we have to work on more important issues for Pakistan than Kashmiri Freedom Struggle.

This is a major problem I have with PTI supporters. You will even give up one of this country's most important issues simply to agree with Imran's views.

 

[Majnun]

@ Omar 1984,
In fact, there are lots of good things going on in the country.

Pros:

-Now that there is peace with Taliban, we have no more bombings.
-Zulfiqar Mirza is after Altaf Hussain.
-Zardari and PPP is in trouble because of political rise and awearness among people. They are getting pumped up. With all this being said, we will expect new elections soon.
-Pakistan Cricket is coming back
-Russia and China are getting closer to us.

Cons:

-The recent U.S/NATO killing of PA soldiers. (But that will not last long because Americans will be moving out of the region very soon anyways. They don't have the money to run this war on terror). We only need patience and this is all we have to do.

So with these things in mind, Why forget about Kashmir issue?... The thing is, this is exactly what Indians want from us so that they could hope to weaken Pakistan even further. Imran Khan is being a dumb a$$. Next thing you know, after next generation which IK is proclaiming it to be the right time,.... Indians will make Kashmir on their side into a strong position. In the next few years, we will be having the opportunity to solve this issue. Mark my words, we will become a strong nation once again.

At the end of the day, you're an idiot. You can't see how important this is than anything right now. Do you, even know how many Kashmiris in India are getting kiiled everyday? You don't realize this. This is one way where we can make a human rights fuss. Comparing how many get kiiled on our administered side to how many on Indian side is like comparing Africa to Europe. Are you aware of the fact that we may run out of water because India is building dams there? This is illegal and action must be taken. We must act on this situation now!

You are not mentioning inflation, ordinary Pakistanis are having a hard time buying food as the prices go up.
Mirza being after Altaf is not such a great thing, he isn't any less than Altaf Hussain.

 

[GOD OF WAR]

^ To be honest, with all thats going on in Pakistan. We should pay more attention to Pakistan than India Occupied Kashmir at the moment.

The average Pakistani will not give his/her vote based on Kashmir policy anymore. No offense to Kashmiris, but even I'm losing interest in Kashmir issue when theres so much happening in the country, and I used to bring up Kashmir dispute every other day in this forum 2 years ago. It doesn't mean Imran Khan will accept LoC as International Border or give into India's demands, it just means we have to work on more important issues for Pakistan than Kashmiri Freedom Struggle.

This only means that you've fallen trap to the grand strategy of the anti-Pakistan/anti-Islam game. Thats precisely the desired outcome of these demonic elements my dear brother.

 

[Omar1984]

@ Omar 1984,
In fact, there are lots of good things going on in the country.

Pros:

-Now that there is peace with Taliban, we have no more bombings.
-Zulfiqar Mirza is after Altaf Hussain.
-Zardari and PPP is in trouble because of political rise and awearness among people. They are getting pumped up. With all this being said, we will expect new elections soon.
-Pakistan Cricket is coming back
-Russia and China are getting closer to us.

Cons:

-The recent U.S/NATO killing of PA soldiers. (But that will not last long because Americans will be moving out of the region very soon anyways. They don't have the money to run this war on terror). We only need patience and this is all we have to do.

So with these things in mind, Why forget about Kashmir issue?... The thing is, this is exactly what Indians want from us so that they could hope to weaken Pakistan even further. Imran Khan is being a dumb a$$. Next thing you know, after next generation which IK is proclaiming it to be the right time,.... Indians will make Kashmir on their side into a strong position. In the next few years, we will be having the opportunity to solve this issue. Mark my words, we will become a strong nation once again.

At the end of the day, you're an idiot. You can't see how important this is than anything right now. Do you, even know how many Kashmiris in India are getting kiiled everyday? You don't realize this. This is one way where we can make a human rights fuss. Comparing how many get kiiled on our administered side to how many on Indian side is like comparing Africa to Europe. Are you aware of the fact that we may run out of water because India is building dams there? This is illegal and action must be taken. We must act on this situation now!

The fact is sab dunya agay ja ri hain aur Pakistan peechay ja ri hain.

Pakistan has made enough sacrafices for Kashmiri Freedom Struggle, it got us no where, and to be honest Kashmiris did very little to help us in all wars we had over Kashmir. Why make more sacrafices for them? Why place our country more behind for them? When every country around us are moving ahead, why we should make sacrafices for some people that dont like us?

Let me tell you Imran Khan is the most honest and sincere politician you will ever find in Pakistan. He already said whatever Kashmiris decide (even if they want independent country) we should agree with it. We all know what India Occupied Kashmir wants. What will Pakistan gain from fighting for their freedom?

I think Pakistan should be more selfish now, and care about the Pakistan we currently have. This land that we have in Pakistan, has much more importance and much more resources than what India Occupied Kashmir has.

Water issue can be worked out in other ways, and theres other ways as well.

Pakistanis should think about Pakistan and the people of Pakistan first. We are currently having so much problems, I dont know how some people can think of Kashmir now.

And Pakistan has more of a chance of getting Kashmiri support if Pakistan fixes the mess we are in now. We have to move ahead too with the world.

 

[Omar1984]

This only means that you've fallen trap to the grand strategy of the anti-Pakistan/anti-Islam game. Thats precisely the desired outcome of these demonic elements my dear brother.

I'm being realistic. How can we get India Occupied Kashmir ? Is the question my grandfather spent time thinking about, my father spent time thinking about, and I am spending time thinking about...soon my children and grandchildren will also ponder about this question....Please fix the crisis we are in now then talk about Kashmir.

Pakistan first.........then India Occupied Kashmir.

And the Ummah dont care about Pakistanis so why should we care about Ummah. How many Muslim countries supported Pakistan or grieved with Pakistan after 28 of our soldiers have been killed by NATO. Where are the Kashmiris? Why aren't they making statements to support us?

 

[Leader]

Omar1984 @ you are making a grave mistake here. they are lying and putting an allegation on IK about Kashmir policy.

what IK said was that we shall sort out Kashmir issue through political solution, raise the issue on international level like Palestine, sort out to diplomacy instead of militancy and suggest india to withdraw their troops from occupied Kashmir, and let the Kashmir decide what they want, give them the right of self determination without influence from any side.

Like I said before IK is kind of a leader who doesnot rule a country but region. therefore, his say would be accepted in india as well. majority of india would be happy to see him as Prime minister not because he would be Prime minister of Pakistan but because they would feel like obeying and accepting his say as his subjects.

 

[BATMAN]

MQM is already part of govt. and so is noora league, technically they all are partners.

 

[Majnun]

I'm being realistic. How can we get India Occupied Kashmir ? Is the question my grandfather spent time thinking about, my father spent time thinking about, and I am spending time thinking about...soon my children and grandchildren will also ponder about this question....Please fix the crisis we are in now then talk about Kashmir.

Pakistan first.........then India Occupied Kashmir.

And the Ummah dont care about Pakistanis so why should we care about Ummah. How many Muslim countries supported Pakistan or grieved with Pakistan after 28 of our soldiers have been killed by NATO. Where are the Kashmiris? Why aren't they making statements to support us?

Forget the so-called Ummah, most of those Arabs don't care for Pakistan. But Kashmir is extremely important, our rivers flow from there, and if Imran says we should let that go, then he is saying something against Pakistan's core interests.

 

[Majnun]

Omar1984 @ you are making a grave mistake here. they are lying and putting an allegation on IK about Kashmir policy.

what IK said was that we shall sort out Kashmir issue through political solution, raise the issue on international level like Palestine, sort out to diplomacy instead of militancy and suggest india to withdraw their troops from occupied Kashmir, and let the Kashmir decide what they want, give them the right of self determination without influence from any side.

Like I said before IK is kind of a leader who doesnot rule a country but region. therefore, his say would be accepted in india as well. majority of india would be happy to see him as Prime minister not because he would be Prime minister of Pakistan but because they would feel like obeying and accepting his say as his subjects.

Imran is an idealist who is dreaming if he thinks India will ever support such a move and allow Kashmir issue to be resolved on an international forum.
And Imran will have a tough enough time ruling his own country, he isn't going to rule a region.

 

[Edevelop]

You are not mentioning inflation, ordinary Pakistanis are having a hard time buying food as the prices go up.
Mirza being after Altaf is not such a great thing, he isn't any less than Altaf Hussain.

Inflation is every where and it is pretty normal. There is not a single country that is going through this. I suppose you don't know anything cuz maybe you have never came out of Pakistan.

Yup, you must be an MQM supporter. Try to realize that there are lots of supporters of Mirza. Just because most of Karachi doesn't support this cause does not necessarily mean he is a bad person. I won't comment anything further on this...

 

[Edevelop]

I'm being realistic. How can we get India Occupied Kashmir ? Is the question my grandfather spent time thinking about, my father spent time thinking about, and I am spending time thinking about...soon my children and grandchildren will also ponder about this question....Please fix the crisis we are in now then talk about Kashmir.

Pakistan first.........then India Occupied Kashmir.

And the Ummah dont care about Pakistanis so why should we care about Ummah. How many Muslim countries supported Pakistan or grieved with Pakistan after 28 of our soldiers have been killed by NATO. Where are the Kashmiris? Why aren't they making statements to support us?

The Army/ISI has always been interested in Kashmir. Its has mostly been the civilian government which has tried to ignore it all along. (Bhutto regime is the only exception. They actually did take tough stance.) We need both groups to have one ideology.

Absolutely, i agree that the 'umma' doesn't give a damn about us. This is one of the reasons why i hate some of my people who think about having single muslim federation. Unfortunately, they have this inferiority complex

Just because you are not Kashmiri, i can see why you are not interested. If you truly believe that Imran Khan is the only person to bring peace n this region, then i'm afraid, you are wrong. Kashmir is the root of cause of everything. Without its solution, there would be no peace in the region.

Obviously i would prefer it to be part of Pakistan because I am a Kashmiri and a Pakistani. However, i would not regret in any way if we at least try.... If we can get it, then great. If not, then we can at least try to make it an independent country.

In the end, we have to blame ourselves. We never actually took stand. I remember, some of my ancestors hijacked an Indian plane from Kashmir to Sialkot. When they arrived with such a great accomplishment, hardly no one in Pakistan took it as an interest. Next thing you know, they were hanged because the civilian government did not trust them. They had thought that they were Indian spies. With such a shame, i would hate Pakistan for this reason. But apparently, i don't because i still have high hopes.

Over 700,000 Indian soldiers are stationed in J&K.Wouldn't it be easy to trap them? So many of them are concentrated in one area. We can do what Indians did to us in Bangladesh, what Soviets did to get hitler, how Soviet Union became a power. War tactics ,intelligence and will is important. There are ways to do this. I am no expert but if few of my ancestors could find a way to get through, then i don't see any reason why our civilian government and army couldn't do to gain this effort.

 

[Omar1984]

Over 700,000 Indian soldiers are stationed in J&K.Wouldn't it be easy to trap them? So many of them are concentrated in one area. We can do what Indians did to us in Bangladesh, what Soviets did to get hitler, how Soviet Union became a power. War tactics ,intelligence and will is important. There are ways to do this. I am no expert but if few of my ancestors could find a way to get through, then i don't see any reason why our civilian government and army couldn't do to gain this effort.

So many missed opportunites. 1948 (why agree to cease fire when our Pakhtun brothers were more adopted to climate and geography than indian soldiers). 1962 (should've worked with China, but Pakistani leaders were too busy smoking cigars in Washington D.C.), 1999 (we had Kargil in our hands but coward Nawaz gave into U.S. pressure).

We cant have another war over Kashmir. Both Pakistan and India are nuclear powers and what we have in Pakistan is more valuable than moutains of IOK, we already have plenty of mountains in Pakistan. If worse comes to worse over the water issue dont forget that the Indus river originates in China. We can work with China if its the worst crisis over water issue.

Imran Khan wants to solve the Kashmir dispute politically. The days of fighting over Kashmir are long gone.

Imran Khan's major focus will be getting Pakistan out of this war OF terror, protecting our borders, tap our natural resources, build our economy, stop corruption, give justice to the suffering, provide education to our children, and provide jobs to our people. And thats what Pakistan needs right now.

 

[Mytime]

Imran is an idealist who is dreaming if he thinks India will ever support such a move and allow Kashmir issue to be resolved on an international forum.
And Imran will have a tough enough time ruling his own country, he isn't going to rule a region.

Imran is both Idealist- he stands for something than fall for everything like other pakistani leaders are doing .... at the same time he also is a practical guy , he knows that both India and pakistan cannot win win the other side of LOC through conflict ... Settling Kashmir issue peacefully or keeping it aside for a while like how India-china is resolving its boundary disputes peacefully is the way forward ... leaders accross both India and Pakistan just cook up Kashmir passion among masses to fulfill their political goals and hide other shortcomings

 

[Meengla]

So many missed opportunites. 1948 (why agree to cease fire when our Pakhtun brothers were more adopted to climate and geography than indian soldiers). 1962 (should've worked with China, but Pakistani leaders were too busy smoking cigars in Washington D.C.), 1999 (we had Kargil in our hands but coward Nawaz gave into U.S. pressure).

We cant have another war over Kashmir. Both Pakistan and India are nuclear powers and what we have in Pakistan is more valuable than moutains of IOK, we already have plenty of mountains in Pakistan. If worse comes to worse over the water issue dont forget that the Indus river originates in China. We can work with China if its the worst crisis over water issue.

Imran Khan wants to solve the Kashmir dispute politically. The days of fighting over Kashmir are long gone.

Imran Khan's major focus will be getting Pakistan out of this war OF terror, protecting our borders, tap our natural resources, build our economy, stop corruption, give justice to the suffering, provide education to our children, and provide jobs to our people. And thats what Pakistan needs right now.

Top post.
And, frankly, I had to re-read Omar's posts to make sure it was Omar saying these things--given his background here at the PDF.
Yes, let's shelve the Kashmir issue, if not accepting the LoC=IB.
But I am not being resentful of any lack of support from the 'Ummah'; neither to I think that Kashmiris don't care for Pakistan.
My logic is simple:
1) Both Pakistan and India cannot grab the whole Kashmir without provoking a catestrophic nuclear war. Drill this into your heads, regardless of your country of origin. So Kashmir ain't worth fighting over. May be up to sometime in the 70's but not anymore.
2) Creative ways can be found to solve Pakistan's water problems. Indeed, as shown by the recent monsoon/floods, Pakistan needs to manage the water it already gets. Saving from not buying one fighter jet alone will help much water conservation; that's just one example.
3) The goal of every Pakistani should be the betterment of life all Pakistanis and of that of Kashmiris. There are plenty of ways to do that after reducing the overall hostility level between India and Pakistan.

 

[Majnun]

Inflation is every where and it is pretty normal. There is not a single country that is going through this. I suppose you don't know anything cuz maybe you have never came out of Pakistan.

Yup, you must be an MQM supporter. Try to realize that there are lots of supporters of Mirza. Just because most of Karachi doesn't support this cause does not necessarily mean he is a bad person. I won't comment anything further on this...

I am neither an MQM supporter nor is it true that I have never left Pakistan. In fact, as I am writing this, I am sitting in your country.
Firstly, this drastic increase in prices isn't seen everywhere, Pakistan has definitely had a worse situation with regards to prices of staple goods ever since this PPP government came into power. You can't deny that. It may not affect the grand strategy and war games you play out in your head, but it affects millions of Pakistanis.
Secondly, as I said, I am not an MQM supporter, you bigot. Just because I am not in favour of Mirza, the traitor, the man who called for the breakup of Pakistan, does not mean I support the MQM. I have been following what Mirza has been doing in England, in fact, I think you even put up a video of one of his speeches. It was disgusting, trying to take out the role of the Urdu-speakers in the movement for Pakistan, people who have probably sacrificed more than any other for the creation of Pakistan. And so far, that's all this traitor has been doing in England, speaking against Urdu-speakers, and if any Muhajir tells him it is not so, he, like you, accuses them of being MQM supporters. How far has Mirza been successful in his case against Altaf Hussain, are any proceedings even underway against him yet? A few years back, Imran tried to do the same thing, and, even though Imran was actually sincere in his efforts and had the proper paperwork and documents, he was unsuccessful. So what is this traitor Zulfiqar Mirza going to do?