Illusion of victory: In the eyes of the media (September 1965)

[Bang Galore]

our army crossed the LoC which is not a fixed border as it is disputed territory.

by crossing punjab which is a clear border you did initiate the war with the AIM OF CAPTURING LAHORE.

in that you failed.

You attacked Indian forces, nobody bought the distinction that you did so across the LoC etc. It was a foolish one that you convinced yourselves of.... India did not start the war to capture Lahore, the idea was to relieve pressure on Indian forces in Kashmir and the method used was towards Lahore. It worked. What do you think India would have done with Lahore? Not something it was claiming, was it?

 

[halupridol]

Pakistan won,,,ofcourse,,hence they celebrate victory day
hindus attacked Pak occupied Kashmir,,,but brave Pak army,,not only succesfully repelled it but chased us back to our homes,,where baniya army holled up n fought to protect our major city frm being captured.
even in air,,,PAF was dominating Indian skies.
hum khaney gaye thee angoor,,wapas bhagey banke langoor
so where is the confusion?

 

[hkdas]

Yeah. You were claiming a false victory. I corrected you.

 

[ice_man]

The kargil Conflict is called a War - even by Pak posters.

This involved crossing the LC by Pak troops.

Who started this Kargil war ? .. Pakistan

Howcome when Pak did the same thing in 65 you choose to ignore it & do not accept the fact that Pak started the war !!

India captured Kargil when after ceasefire in 1971. LoC is LoC it is not a recognized border between both nations.

However, recently it has become more stable and permanent.

You attacked Indian forces, nobody bought the distinction that you did so across the LoC etc. It was a foolish one that you convinced yourselves of.... India did not start the war to capture Lahore, the idea was to relieve pressure on Indian forces in Kashmir and the method used was towards Lahore. It worked. What do you think India would have done with Lahore? Not something it was claiming, was it?

So you crossed the border to do what cross border and relieve pressure by just sampling the grass for pasture?

please don't fool yourself that Lahore was not the aim.

 

[hkdas]

our army crossed the LoC which is not a fixed border as it is disputed territory.

by crossing punjab which is a clear border you did initiate the war with the AIM OF CAPTURING LAHORE.

in that you failed.

your army crossed the loc in kahmir, which is an indian state. so by sending your SSG fools who just mess up the operation and failed to achieve all the objective and got killed by kashimiri villages... to put pressure on pakistan, indian army open up a battle front in Punjab (this is called choosing time and place for retaliation) to divert pakistan army from Kashmir.

 

[ice_man]

Pakistan won,,,ofcourse,,hence they celebrate victory day
hindus attacked Pak occupied Kashmir,,,but brave Pak army,,not only succesfully repelled it but chased us back to our homes,,where baniya army holled up n fought to protect our major city frm being captured.
even in air,,,PAF was dominating Indian skies.
hum khaney gaye thee angoor,,wapas bhagey banke langoor
so where is the confusion?

one thing left:

WE HAVE PERMANUs ready for you KETANUS

 

[third eye]

India captured Kargil when after ceasefire in 1971. LoC is LoC it is not a recognized border between both nations.

However, recently it has become more stable and permanent.

How does any of this answer the question ?? !!

Kargil - Pak crossed over & it was a War

65 - Pak crossed over & India initiated the war !!

 

[hkdas]

Give it a rest mate, for fifty years, India has been l;licking it's wounds and living under the humility of being beaten by a much smaller nation, now since Modi has come to power, your history is being re-written again, like Indians were flying 5000 years earlier and all that nonsense, now after sulking for the last 50 years, Indians have suddenly realised to celebrate 1965 war.
As for the air superiority, even for 1971, IAF admitted that most air battles took place over India......what does that tell you. !!!

are you that fool to believe this kind of your army propaganda?? "for 50 years india iclking its wounds!!??? wow!! don't you know that india didn't sustain any wounds in 1965 war. it was your army and air force which almost lost its nation. even your officials agreed that Pakistan was running out of ammunition and spare parts in 1965 war.

as for 1971, IAF achieved air supremacy in east pakistan... this tells all.

 

[Bang Galore]

So you crossed the border to do what cross border and relieve pressure by just sampling the grass for pasture?

please don't fool yourself that Lahore was not the aim.

Lahore was not the aim for the war, just the means. Not like we cared whether it was Lahore or any other city. Lahore was the obvious target. The point is that had you not started the war, there was zero chance of an Indian push towards Lahore. Lahore is not on any Indian wish list. Kashmir was on yours, you fought the war for Kashmir & you got nowhere. Which is why you will never be seen as the winner in that war.

If you went after someone's jacket & then were claiming victory because you saved yourself from losing your shorts when retaliation came your way, there won't be many takers for your claim of having come out better off. Doesn't matter if that guy was bigger than you or had more stamina, since you started a fight, victory would be yours to claim only if you achieved your objectives.

 

[ice_man]

How does any of this answer the question ?? !!

Kargil - Pak crossed over & it was a War

65 - Pak crossed over & India initiated the war !!

Kargil was a war because of the intense buildup along the LoC that eventually turned into armed combat limited to LoC. that turned "skirmishes" across the LoC into a full blown out war.

LoC is fair game. hence entering Siachen by indian troops is also considered a war yet limited to a specific theater.

shelling across the LoC and even currently across the actual border it is not war it is "violations".

 

[Bang Galore]

LoC is fair game. hence entering Siachen by indian troops is also considered a war yet limited to a specific theater.

Two points. LoC is not just a line, it is a treaty & treaty violations will be regarded seriously.
Second, Siachen is not on the LoC. Hence fair game. Whether a war is limited or otherwise is not decided by one party arbitrarily. Siachen remained local because you didn't consider it worthwhile to start a wider conflict. India did in 1965. The choice wasn't yours to make.

 

[ice_man]

Lahore was not the aim for the war, just the means. Not like we cared whether it was Lahore or any other city. Lahore was the obvious target. The point is that had you not started the war, there was zero chance of an Indian push towards Lahore. Lahore is not on any Indian wish list. Kashmir was on yours, you fought the war for Kashmir & you got nowhere. Which is why you will never be seen as the winner in that war.

If you went after someone's jacket & then were claiming victory because you saved yourself from losing your shorts when retaliation came your way, there won't be many takers for your claim of having come out better off. Doesn't matter if that guy was bigger than you or had more stamina, since you started a fight, victory would be yours to claim only if you achieved your objectives.

we consider it our DEFENSE day.

secondly you crossed border to capture Lahore and Sialkot however, they became our STALINGRAD

 

[Whazzup]

So you crossed the border to do what cross border and relieve pressure by just sampling the grass for pasture?

please don't fool yourself that Lahore was not the aim.

Lahore ain't even on our wishlist so how can it be our aim for a war? Our aim from the start was to make it a war when pakistan wanted a limited confrontation and revolve around kashmir.

 

[vsdoc]

Lahore was not the aim for the war, just the means. Not like we cared whether it was Lahore or any other city. Lahore was the obvious target. The point is that had you not started the war, there was zero chance of an Indian push towards Lahore. Lahore is not on any Indian wish list. Kashmir was on yours, you fought the war for Kashmir & you got nowhere. Which is why you will never be seen as the winner in that war.

If you went after someone's jacket & then were claiming victory because you saved yourself from losing your shorts when retaliation came your way, there won't be many takers for your claim of having come out better off. Doesn't matter if that guy was bigger than you or had more stamina, since you started a fight, victory would be yours to claim only if you achieved your objectives.

No sense crying over spilt milk, but we messed up by not pushing through with Lahore.

If Lahore had fallen, today we would be holding Pakistan occupied Kashmir.

Going for the jugular has never been an Indian virtue. Briefly in fits and starts, but not a civilizational characteristic.

 

[Bang Galore]

we consider it our DEFENSE day.

secondly you crossed border to capture Lahore and Sialkot however, they became our STALINGRAD

You can consider it whatever you want. Like the example I gave, you could call that a "save the underpants day". Makes no difference.