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IHS Janes | Pakistan & Saudi Arabia in talks over JF-17, Al-Khalid sales.

Pakistan, Saudi Arabia 'in talks over Al-Khalid MBT, JF-17 deal'
Author:Farhan Bokhari, Islamabad
Jeremy Binnie, London

Last posted:2014-01-28

Key Points
  • Government officials in Islamabad have said Pakistan is in talks with Saudi Arabia over the possible sale of Al-Khalid MBTs and JF-17 fighter aircraft
  • However, the potential deals appear to be more about the two countries' foreign policy objectives than gaps in Saudi military capabilities
Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are discussing a potential military hardware sale agreement that would involve the export to Riyadh of an unspecified number of Al-Khalid main battle tanks (MBTs) and the Sino-Pakistani JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft, senior Pakistani officials and Western diplomats in Islamabad have stated.

The deal may form part of a wider defence co-operation agreement that could also involve the future deployment of Pakistan Army troops to Saudi Arabia, according to officials.

"The main elements of the ongoing discussions involve the Al-Khalid tank and the JF-17. The numbers [of platforms] are still under discussion," said a senior Pakistani government official. The Al-Khalid MBT and the JF-17 were developed by Pakistan in co-operation with China. Pakistani officials have previously sought potential customers for both platforms, citing their comparability to western hardware while being available at a considerably lower price.

Although Saudi Arabia's inventory contains Western-sourced equipment considered superior to that offered by Pakistan, Western diplomats in Islamabad said a deal would be an indirect way for Saudi Arabia to provide financial assistance to Pakistan. "Both pieces of hardware will bring profits to Pakistan. This will be Pakistan's first export of these items and this could help set a trend for the future for customers who cannot afford Western technology," said one senior Western diplomat.
The same diplomat cited reports of discussions between Saudi Arabia and Pakistan on a wider defence co-operation agreement that may lead to the first deployment of Pakistani troops to Saudi Arabia since the 1980s, when they deployed for "security duties".

"Right now, the Saudis are feeling pressure in the south on the border with Yemen and in the north near Syria and the Gulf,"

said the Western diplomat, who added that any new co-operation agreement might see Pakistani troops deployed to either or both of those fronts.

The Pakistani official said a new hardware deal between Islamabad and Saudi Arabia may eventually see the Saudis consider Chinese hardware more seriously for future purchase. "Once the Saudis have used Chinese technology provided through Pakistan, their comfort [with Chinese equipment] will improve. There could be future possibilities for arms deals between those two countries," he said.

ANALYSIS
Saudi Arabia's requirement for Pakistani tanks and jets is highly questionable given that it generally buys far more sophisticated and expensive military equipment from Western countries. The JF-17 is not in the same league as the 152 Boeing F-15SA and 72 Eurofighter Typhoons that the Royal Saudi Air Force is currently acquiring.

The Royal Saudi Land Forces (RSLF) has a requirement for more tanks and a Pakistani defence official stated in October 2004 that the Al-Khalid would undergo trials in the kingdom in the following summer.

However, no further progress was reported and reports that the German government has held up Riyadh's efforts to acquire the latest variant of the Leopard 2 MBT suggest the RSLF was looking elsewhere. Meanwhile, the RSLF now plans to acquire more surplus US Abrams tanks and upgrade them to the new M1A2S standard.

While a major investment in developing closer ties with Pakistan cannot be ruled out, buying jets and tanks the Saudi military will not want would not be the most efficient way of doing this as the engines for both platforms will have to come from a third party (Russia in the case of the JF-17 engines).

At the same time, the claims that Riyadh is looking to develop closer military ties with Islamabad will fuel speculation that the Saudis - who are currently disillusioned with US policy towards Iran and Syria - are trying to diversify their strategic relations, possibly with an eye towards obtaining Pakistani nuclear weapons and delivery systems.

JDW
 
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They are based on T-72 chassis

That does not say anything. Doesn't even say that the two are similar except for the, somewhat, similarities in the underlying metal frame upon which everything else is built, everything else which can be worlds apart. Because you see,

the chassis of this,

porsche-gt3-cup_zpsdb080995.jpg


is based on this,

VolkswagenBeetle-001_zps51458544.jpg
 
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Possible exports will give us money for more RnD ;)
 
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interesting news. first there were rumors about thunder only. now Al-Khalid too. lets see whats comes up next :)


i also heard some time back that Saudi Arabia wants presence of Pak Army in their country.



Pakistan Army units were based in Tabuk, Saudi Arabia during Gulf War.
 
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Now I am getting a better picture why Saudis have suddenly decided to go for Pakistani hardware. It is not about sale of a platform or two, it is about undergoing strategic pacts which will ensure rapid human and equipment supply to Kindgom at the time of need. Well Pakistan was already standing with Saudis.. if Saudi Arabia was in trouble, defense pacts or not, Pakistanis would have stood by them anyway at any time of the day.
 
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Now I am getting a better picture why Saudis have suddenly decided to go for Pakistani hardware. It is not about sale of a platform or two, it is about undergoing strategic pacts which will ensure rapid human and equipment supply to Kindgom at the time of need. Well Pakistan was already standing with Saudis.. if Saudi Arabia was in trouble, defense pacts or not, Pakistanis would have stood by them anyway at any time of the day.
I heard a rumor that KSA is looking for land on lease in Pakistan for plantation. :undecided:

KSA offering Pakistan oil against land lease for plantation
 
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I heard a rumor that KSA is looking for land on lease in Pakistan for plantation. :undecided:

Shareef bradan offered them land in 2008-9 but that was UAE Government then. Nawaz Shareef and Shahbaaz Shareef are wana-be leaders.. they are not traitors but they are one $hit of a leader. They lack vision, they lack strategy, they lack leadership and they lack understanding that what is good for Pakistan and Pakistanis. You will find them doing some act here and some act there and they "bet" on chance that one of their random acts would turn favourable and fruitful. This present act of offering land to Saudi Arabia or any other country is just another "random" act.

Look at this side now.. Pakistan is concerned about water supplies for its own farmers owning their legitimate land. Where shell water come from for Saudi vegetation? If a barren land is offered to them, whats the plan? Are they going to dig canals and if they do, will they not be sharing already short resource? If they offer one of the lands which is already being cultivated, then crops from that land will fly to Saudi Arabia. In that case how would they justify wave of vegetable price hike in the country?
 
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Ganja bradran had offered them land in 2008-9 but that was UAE Government then. Nawaz Shareef and Shahbaaz Shareef are wana-be leaders.. they are not traitors but they are one $hit of a leader. They lack vision, they lack strategy, they lack leadership and they lack understanding that what is good for Pakistan and Pakistanis. You will find them doing some act here and some act there and they "bet" on chance that one of their random acts would turn favourable and fruitful. This present act of offering land to Saudi Arabia or any other country is just another "random" act.

Look at this side now.. Pakistan is concerned about water supplies for its own farmers owning their legitimate land. Where shell water come from for Saudi vegetation? If a barren land is offered to them, whats the plan? Are they going to dig canals and if they do, will they not be sharing already short resource? If they offer one of the lands which is already being cultivated, then crops from that land will fly to Saudi Arabia. In that case how would they justify wave of vegetable price hike in the country?
Well this not necessarily a bad thing though there might be some implications. If we have some clever minds in dialog they may cut us a good deal. People in Pakistan are destroying their fertile land already by urbanizing it and I think a deal like this may actually create awareness in local people about significance of agriculture.
 
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Now I am getting a better picture why Saudis have suddenly decided to go for Pakistani hardware. It is not about sale of a platform or two, it is about undergoing strategic pacts which will ensure rapid human and equipment supply to Kindgom at the time of need.
Good news for us! :enjoy:

Well Pakistan was already standing with Saudis..
I would like to disagree on that, my thinking is that Pakistani policy makers have shown some decency by not supporting Saudis regarding issues in which it seemed (quite clearly) Saudis were supporting insurgencies against other Muslim countries.

if Saudi Arabia was in trouble, defense pacts or not, Pakistanis would have stood by them anyway at any time of the day.
No need for us to stand by them Sir, they got some good strong friends. :rolleyes: :usflag:
 
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out of topic, but made me wonder

are Al-Khalid can using 120 mm smooth bore cannon like Rheinmetal L-44 as their main gun? just asking, because if you can installed it, and made it worked perfectly you can expand your base target market tremendously.
 
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out of topic, but made me wonder

are Al-Khalid can using 120 mm smooth bore cannon like Rheinmetal L-44 as their main gun? just asking, because if you can installed it, and made it worked perfectly you can expand your base target market tremendously.

AK uses a 125mm indigenous smoothbore... in the past blank tank guns were imported from France...(Based on KBA-3) now indigenous ones are produced by HIT...

Old gun:

dmh9g.jpg
 
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Pakistan, Saudi Arabia 'in talks over Al-Khalid MBT, JF-17 deal'
Author:Farhan Bokhari, Islamabad
Jeremy Binnie, London

Last posted:2014-01-28

Key Points
  • Government officials in Islamabad have said Pakistan is in talks with Saudi Arabia over the possible sale of Al-Khalid MBTs and JF-17 fighter aircraft
  • However, the potential deals appear to be more about the two countries' foreign policy objectives than gaps in Saudi military capabilities
Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are discussing a potential military hardware sale agreement that would involve the export to Riyadh of an unspecified number of Al-Khalid main battle tanks (MBTs) and the Sino-Pakistani JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft, senior Pakistani officials and Western diplomats in Islamabad have stated.

The deal may form part of a wider defence co-operation agreement that could also involve the future deployment of Pakistan Army troops to Saudi Arabia, according to officials.

"The main elements of the ongoing discussions involve the Al-Khalid tank and the JF-17. The numbers [of platforms] are still under discussion," said a senior Pakistani government official. The Al-Khalid MBT and the JF-17 were developed by Pakistan in co-operation with China. Pakistani officials have previously sought potential customers for both platforms, citing their comparability to western hardware while being available at a considerably lower price.

Although Saudi Arabia's inventory contains Western-sourced equipment considered superior to that offered by Pakistan, Western diplomats in Islamabad said a deal would be an indirect way for Saudi Arabia to provide financial assistance to Pakistan. "Both pieces of hardware will bring profits to Pakistan. This will be Pakistan's first export of these items and this could help set a trend for the future for customers who cannot afford Western technology," said one senior Western diplomat.
The same diplomat cited reports of discussions between Saudi Arabia and Pakistan on a wider defence co-operation agreement that may lead to the first deployment of Pakistani troops to Saudi Arabia since the 1980s, when they deployed for "security duties".

"Right now, the Saudis are feeling pressure in the south on the border with Yemen and in the north near Syria and the Gulf,"

said the Western diplomat, who added that any new co-operation agreement might see Pakistani troops deployed to either or both of those fronts.

The Pakistani official said a new hardware deal between Islamabad and Saudi Arabia may eventually see the Saudis consider Chinese hardware more seriously for future purchase. "Once the Saudis have used Chinese technology provided through Pakistan, their comfort [with Chinese equipment] will improve. There could be future possibilities for arms deals between those two countries," he said.

ANALYSIS
Saudi Arabia's requirement for Pakistani tanks and jets is highly questionable given that it generally buys far more sophisticated and expensive military equipment from Western countries. The JF-17 is not in the same league as the 152 Boeing F-15SA and 72 Eurofighter Typhoons that the Royal Saudi Air Force is currently acquiring.

The Royal Saudi Land Forces (RSLF) has a requirement for more tanks and a Pakistani defence official stated in October 2004 that the Al-Khalid would undergo trials in the kingdom in the following summer.

However, no further progress was reported and reports that the German government has held up Riyadh's efforts to acquire the latest variant of the Leopard 2 MBT suggest the RSLF was looking elsewhere. Meanwhile, the RSLF now plans to acquire more surplus US Abrams tanks and upgrade them to the new M1A2S standard.

While a major investment in developing closer ties with Pakistan cannot be ruled out, buying jets and tanks the Saudi military will not want would not be the most efficient way of doing this as the engines for both platforms will have to come from a third party (Russia in the case of the JF-17 engines).

At the same time, the claims that Riyadh is looking to develop closer military ties with Islamabad will fuel speculation that the Saudis - who are currently disillusioned with US policy towards Iran and Syria - are trying to diversify their strategic relations, possibly with an eye towards obtaining Pakistani nuclear weapons and delivery systems.

JDW

Better to look for a JV... For Tanks and other Land vehicles whether with Germany or with S.Korea for JF-17s these are best birds but KSA can join in the program as well like becoming a 25-30% partner in it....

AK uses a 125mm indigenous smoothbore... in the past blank tank guns were imported from France...(Based on KBA-3) now indigenous ones are produced by HIT...

Old gun:

View attachment 15082

I am not so sure. They might be Turkish or Chinese ones.
 
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