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IFX Indonesian Fighter Experiment (KF21/IFX program)

What was the design process for the KF-X/IF-X?

Engineers who designed the KF-X/IF-X were divided into several sections, namely configuration, structure, propulsion, systems and aerodynamics.

The engineer working on the configuration section will work first, determining the general dimensions of the aircraft (length, wingspan, etc.), general wing planform, type of empennage, calculations about stealth, armament placement, etc.

When complete, the data will be given to each section for follow-up. For example, in the structural section, engineers must create a wing design based on the limitations created by the configuration engineer (wing length, type of wing planform, wing angle, armament pylon position, etc.) as well as the limitation conditions provided by the aerodynamics engineer.

Apart from that, the structural engineer must determine two different types of materials with different calculations to meet the limits set by the Design Requirements and Objective (DRO), such as the maximum G-load of the aircraft, the maximum weight of weapons that can be carried by each pylon, etc. .

The two types of calculations using different materials will then be given to the DPR (both South Korea and Indonesia) to determine which material will be selected. The selection of materials by the DPR takes many factors into account, starting from the availability of raw resources, the ability to process these raw resources, employment, economic turnover, to cost effectiveness.

What are Indonesia's contributions to the design process?

Indonesia has engineers who work on each part together with South Korean engineers. For example, there are 10 engineers working on structural parts, of which five come from Indonesia. This is done so that Indonesia can gain knowledge from every part that is carried out.

Designing a product must go through the stages of Conceptual Study, Conceptual Design, Preliminary Design, Detailed Design, Prototyping, and finally Mass Production. The Preliminary Design part of the KF-X/IF-X was carried out by engineers who are experienced (40 years and over) and have participated in several previous national strategic projects.

The Preliminary Design stage was successfully completed within 1.5 years.This time is considered very short if you design an aircraft from 0 (starting from scratch) with limited funding. The next stage (detailed design and others) was then continued by engineers from PTDI.

What are Indonesia's advantages compared to South Korea and Indonesia's reciprocity towards the KF-X/IF-X project?

Indonesia has advantages in terms of structure and systems compared to South Korea. Meanwhile, Indonesian experts are in an equal condition in terms of knowledge in the field of composite materials, but Indonesia is behind in terms of manufacturing.



Then, why can South Korea make the T-50 Golden Eagle light trainer jet, but can't make a cargo plane so it has to overhaul the CN-235?

In short, like this, it's like South Korea, through KAI, is an expert in making sports cars (T-50) and Indonesia, through PTDI, is skilled at making transport trucks (CN-235). A company that is skilled at making sports cars may not necessarily be able to make transport trucks because they have different goals and needs even though they are both wheeled land vehicles (in this case planes).KAI itself was able to make the T-50 after receiving assistance from Lockheed-Martin.

Does Indonesia get access to sensitive technology from KF-X/IF-X such as radar, etc.?

No, Indonesia does not get access to sensitive technology from KF-X/IF-X because the sensitive technology comes from third party countries (US, Israel, etc.). While in South Korea, all engineers from Indonesia, including the test pilots who were sent, were under strict supervision by the South Korean NIS (National Intelligence Service).

What contribution does Indonesia have in the production line of the KF-X/IF-X?

Currently, Indonesia has a role in producing components from KF-X/IF-X made from carbon composition, such as components for flight control surfaces.In order to have the ability to produce components from carbon composites, PTDI has purchased two Autoclave machines with diameters of 3-meter and 1.5-meter and equipped with CCA (controlled clean room). This is done so that production from KF-X/IF-X also depends on Indonesia.

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Average salary received by Indonesian Engineers who participated in the development of KF-X/IF-X

Because nominal mentions are considered sensitive, what is presented here is a comparison percentage. During the KF-X/IF-X development phase, participating Indonesian Engineers were paid 25% less than South Korean Engineers working on the same part of the program.

Meanwhile, South Korean Engineers are paid 20% less than United States Engineers, which means Indonesian Engineers are paid 40% less than United States Engineers.Even though the salary of Indonesian Engineers involved in the KF-X/IF-X Program looks lower than others, the salary is still 50% higher (1.5x) the salary of Indonesian Aerospace Engineers working on domestic programs.

[URL='https://twitter.com/KentLavis/status/1702305840802472305/photo/1'][/URL]
 
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What was the design process for the KF-X/IF-X?

Engineers who designed the KF-X/IF-X were divided into several sections, namely configuration, structure, propulsion, systems and aerodynamics.

The engineer working on the configuration section will work first, determining the general dimensions of the aircraft (length, wingspan, etc.), general wing planform, type of empennage, calculations about stealth, armament placement, etc.

When complete, the data will be given to each section for follow-up. For example, in the structural section, engineers must create a wing design based on the limitations created by the configuration engineer (wing length, type of wing planform, wing angle, armament pylon position, etc.) as well as the limitation conditions provided by the aerodynamics engineer.

Apart from that, the structural engineer must determine two different types of materials with different calculations to meet the limits set by the Design Requirements and Objective (DRO), such as the maximum G-load of the aircraft, the maximum weight of weapons that can be carried by each pylon, etc. .

The two types of calculations using different materials will then be given to the DPR (both South Korea and Indonesia) to determine which material will be selected. The selection of materials by the DPR takes many factors into account, starting from the availability of raw resources, the ability to process these raw resources, employment, economic turnover, to cost effectiveness.

What are Indonesia's contributions to the design process?

Indonesia has engineers who work on each part together with South Korean engineers. For example, there are 10 engineers working on structural parts, of which five come from Indonesia. This is done so that Indonesia can gain knowledge from every part that is carried out.

Designing a product must go through the stages of Conceptual Study, Conceptual Design, Preliminary Design, Detailed Design, Prototyping, and finally Mass Production. The Preliminary Design part of the KF-X/IF-X was carried out by engineers who are experienced (40 years and over) and have participated in several previous national strategic projects.

The Preliminary Design stage was successfully completed within 1.5 years.This time is considered very short if you design an aircraft from 0 (starting from scratch) with limited funding. The next stage (detailed design and others) was then continued by engineers from PTDI.

What are Indonesia's advantages compared to South Korea and Indonesia's reciprocity towards the KF-X/IF-X project?

Indonesia has advantages in terms of structure and systems compared to South Korea. Meanwhile, Indonesian experts are in an equal condition in terms of knowledge in the field of composite materials, but Indonesia is behind in terms of manufacturing.



Then, why can South Korea make the T-50 Golden Eagle light trainer jet, but can't make a cargo plane so it has to overhaul the CN-235?

In short, like this, it's like South Korea, through KAI, is an expert in making sports cars (T-50) and Indonesia, through PTDI, is skilled at making transport trucks (CN-235). A company that is skilled at making sports cars may not necessarily be able to make transport trucks because they have different goals and needs even though they are both wheeled land vehicles (in this case planes).KAI itself was able to make the T-50 after receiving assistance from Lockheed-Martin.

Does Indonesia get access to sensitive technology from KF-X/IF-X such as radar, etc.?

No, Indonesia does not get access to sensitive technology from KF-X/IF-X because the sensitive technology comes from third party countries (US, Israel, etc.). While in South Korea, all engineers from Indonesia, including the test pilots who were sent, were under strict supervision by the South Korean NIS (National Intelligence Service).

What contribution does Indonesia have in the production line of the KF-X/IF-X?

Currently, Indonesia has a role in producing components from KF-X/IF-X made from carbon composition, such as components for flight control surfaces.In order to have the ability to produce components from carbon composites, PTDI has purchased two Autoclave machines with diameters of 3-meter and 1.5-meter and equipped with CCA (controlled clean room). This is done so that production from KF-X/IF-X also depends on Indonesia.

View attachment 954035
Average salary received by Indonesian Engineers who participated in the development of KF-X/IF-X

Because nominal mentions are considered sensitive, what is presented here is a comparison percentage. During the KF-X/IF-X development phase, participating Indonesian Engineers were paid 25% less than South Korean Engineers working on the same part of the program.

Meanwhile, South Korean Engineers are paid 20% less than United States Engineers, which means Indonesian Engineers are paid 40% less than United States Engineers.Even though the salary of Indonesian Engineers involved in the KF-X/IF-X Program looks lower than others, the salary is still 50% higher (1.5x) the salary of Indonesian Aerospace Engineers working on domestic programs.

[URL='https://twitter.com/KentLavis/status/1702305840802472305/photo/1'][/URL]



Indonesia's contribution to the development of the KF-21 Boramae.

SUPER Publisher Note: This article was written together with colleagues from the Facebook page, discussing non-sensitive information obtained from PTDI publications as well as interviews with Indonesian engineers who are directly involved with the KFX/IFX program.

------Due to the renewed popularity of the KF-21 news due to the United Arab Emirates' interest in the South Korean fighter aircraft project, I feel it would be appropriate if we looked at what contribution Indonesia has made to this program.

The KF-21 is a 4.5 generation fighter aircraft jointly developed by South Korea and Indonesia with the assistance of third party countries. The KF-21 successfully made its first flight on July 19 2022. However, the development process for the KF-21 under the name of the KF-X/IF-X Program did not always run smoothly.

So far, there has been a lot of negative sentiment and many questions have arisen about Indonesia's contribution to the KF-X/IF-X program.Many people think that Indonesia is just a "parasite" who wants to take information/technology without giving anything in return.

However, is this true?

The following is non-sensitive information obtained from PTDI publications as well as interviews with Engineers from Indonesia who were involved in one of the development stages of the KF-X/IF-X Program.This information will also be presented in the form of an FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) with direct answers.

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Indonesian gov has already set aside budget for its cost share payment for next year in 2024, much bigger than previous cost share payment in 2022 and 2023.

Source : my connection on the KFX/IFX team.
 
Indonesian design engineers in KAI design center during design phase period.

Tim Indo KFX.jpg
 
Unlikely KF21 is like current one if there is no Indonesia. Any Korean who followed the program since 2009 will understand.

It is due to Indonesia participation that the effort by other Korean to kill the program or downgrade it into KFX-E single engine variant ( proposed by KAI ) is failed.

Korean actually has enough financing capability if they want to do it alone. The are not confident to do it without partner and having a partner is the one that makes the program is started in 2009 (MOU with Indonesia), 2010 (contract with Indonesia), and 2011 ( TD / Technology Development phase) is started where Indonesia participates with 3 institutions (Indonesian Aerospace, Institute Technology Bandung, and Indonesian Air Force senior fighter pilots).

Double engine design made during TD phase gets huge pressure to be scraped and replaced by KFX-E designed by Korean Aerospace as single engine design. Even in 2014, it is KFX - E that is about to be developed, but Alhamdulillah double engine C 103 that is then choosen where it is likely due to potential Indonesian back down if KFX - E is choosen.

KFX old thread made in PDF since 2009 can witness it or Secret Project defense forum KFX thread that is started in 2009.

Basically Poland has already wanted to pay Indonesian finantial obligation since 2022, but until Today SK still want to continue partnering with Indonesia despite current administration seems not really serious in financing the program.

During 2013- 2014, SK administration also delayed the program citing financial difficulties while Indonesia keeps its patience during the period. During that delayed period, Indonesia finance its own fighter R&D program that is intended to help KF21 program once EMD phase is started in 2016. The internal R&D program conducted in Infonesia even keep being continued when EMD is already started in Korea which is intended to make the program successful.

We get this financing drama because SK chooses USA company as Technical Assistant for EMD phase that is startwd in 2016 and it makes Indonesian engineers get technology restriction during EMD development phase. Some in our leadership start to act negatively because of that and halt payment, nevertheless Indonesia has started paying its cost share again since 2022 November.

So unlikely Indonesia participation is scrapped due to curren administration not fulfiling our financial obligation fully as many journalist who just followed the program recently like to say. Need to note that initiator of KFX program from Indonesian side is Democrat party, currently serving as opposition to Jokowi administration.

It is already several times many medias speculate Indonesia will be kick out from the program. Beside dont understand KFX history, those journalists also dont have good knowledge about Indonesian relationship with SK and how this two nations geopolitical weight in the region and their strategic special partnership.

Our state budget in 2024 is 216 billion USD with less than 2.5 % of GDP budget deficit and 39 % debt to GDP ratio. Very healty with stable currency and so far good state bond issuance. It is the policy tendency toward R&D program that is the problem and not the money itself if we see our state budget and economy, so the change of policy makers will likely solve our cost share problem in KF21 program and it is very near to happen inshaAllah as next year is our Presidential Election.

Jokowi administration is about to end in November next year and very possible new administration with pro KF21 program will likely emerge. Contrary to many Korean analysists, even next administration under Prabowo will likely solve our KF21 cost share payment as Prabowo will likely use loan to fund the program ( denied by our Planning Minister ) and Ganjar if elected will likely be supported by Democrat party as the initiator of KFX program in Indonesia under SBY administration ( 2004- 2014 ).
 
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South Korea will do big military parade with 6 KF21 prototypes participation

 
I want to disclose some of my conversation with my connection on KFX/IFX program.

1. Indonesian KF21 version will be different with Korean version, the development with Indonesian version will be started as soon as KF21 prototype 5 is sent to Indonesian Aerospace. One of the differences for example Indonesian version should be able to land in shorter runway as requirement from our Air Force.

2. Indonesian Aerospace is given task to keep ugrading the KF21 overtime, so the ability to do upgrade is important and this relates to system integration capability that should be enhanced as system integration at this level needs software capability and will be much more independent than Indonesian F16 Falcon Star upgrade. From my connection on Indonesian KFX/IFX team, he said that Falcon Star program conducted in Indonesia is more about plug and instal work while sofware system will be done by Lockheed Martin people.


3. Institute Technology Bandung (ITB) is important in doing fighter jet research in the country. ITB is also involved from day one of KF21 development like shown in my first page with credible Indonesian media (ANGKASA) where ITB lecture is the Indonesian team leader in configuration work package during preliminary design phase (2011-2012). Need to note here that both Indonesian and South Korean will have team leader in each technology packages ( configuration, structure, propulsion, systems and aerodynamics, etc)


4. Indonesian engineers are dominated by senior engineers in the beginning of development that started in 2011 and then slowly replaced by junior engineers. Current phase for example in the time to prepare mass manufacturing, Indonesian engineers are dominated by junior engineers

5. The transition from KF21 block 1 into KF21 block 2 is not a major thing and he said as something natural for any fighter development. KF 21 block 1 can later be upgraded into block 2. (F15 for example starts from superiority fighter and F15 EX become multi role version)

6. What is important to improve Indonesian Aerospace capability in jet fighter technology is through real fighter development and research and development (R&D). Having one prototype in Indonesian Aerospace is essential as the plane can be used for real fighter development. In Aerospace engineering that plane is named as test bed plane (experimental).

7. Some of knowledge and experience gathered in KF21/IFX program is also used for MALE UCAV Elang Hitam (Black Eagle) development program.
 
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UAE Reportedly Seeking Role In South Korea’s KF-21 Fighter Jet Program​

Paul Iddon
Contributor

I write mostly about Middle East affairs, politics and history.

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Sep 15, 2023,05:08pm EDT


The United Arab Emirates has reportedly shown interest in cooperating with South Korea on its KAI KF-21 Boramae fighter jet development program, potentially becoming the third member of that project.

The Financial News, a South Korean daily, claimed in a report on Thursday that South Korea’s Office of National Security received a letter from the UAE’s Tawazun Economic Council outlining Abu Dhabi’s interest in direct cooperation on the KF-21’s development.

Interestingly, the report claimed the letter even suggested Abu Dhabi could replace Indonesia’s investment in the program.

Indonesia has a 20 percent stake but has failed to fulfill its financial commitments. Jakarta, which has had plans to acquire as many as 50 KF-21s, joined the program in 2010 but later began falling behind on payments in 2017, reaching an estimated $557 million in unpaid dues by July 2022. In May, Jakarta tried to ease concerns in Seoul by promising a new payment timetable.
 
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It is already several times many medias speculate Indonesia will be kick out from the program. Beside dont understand KFX history, those journalists also dont have good knowledge about Indonesian relationship with SK and how this two nations geopolitical weight in the region and their strategic special partnership.

DAPA, reports of ‘KF-21 development cooperation with UAE’ are “unfounded”

Sent time

2023-09-18 13:57


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Successful first flight of domestically produced fighter KF-21 prototype 6 (Seoul = Yonhap News). The Defense Acquisition Program Administration announced on the 28th that the 6th aircraft, the last prototype of the domestically produced supersonic fighter KF-21 (Boramae), took off from the 3rd Training Wing in Sacheon, Gyeongsangnam-do at 3:49 pm and successfully flew for 33 minutes. The photo is the 6th KF-21 prototype. 2023.6.28 [Provided by the Defense Acquisition Program Administration. Resale and DB prohibited] photo@yna.co.kr (Seoul = Yonhap News)


Reporter Jeong A-ran and Park Soo-yoon =

The Defense Acquisition Program Administration said on the 18th that the report that the government may join hands with the United Arab Emirates (UAE) to complete the development of the domestically produced supersonic fighter KF-21 is not true.

Choi Kyeong-ho, spokesman for the DAPA, responded to a related question at the Ministry of Defense's regular briefing on the same day, saying, "After checking with all relevant agencies and departments, the information is unfounded.

" An online media outlet recently reported, citing foreign media, that the UAE could replace Indonesia's unpaid KF-21 contribution. Other media also reported on the 14th that the Tawazun Economic Committee, which is in charge of the UAE's defense industry acquisition, recently sent a letter to the President's Office expressing its intention to cooperate with the KF-21.

In response to this, an official from the Presidential Office said, "The report that the UAE directly mentioned cooperation with the Korean fighter KF-21 is not true," and added, "Considering that matters related to defense industry cooperation with other countries may affect diplomatic relations, we request that you refrain from reporting." "he said.

Previously, President Yoon Seok-yeol held a summit meeting with Indonesian President Joko Widodo in Jakarta, Indonesia on the 8th (local time) and agreed to work closely together to successfully complete the next-generation fighter joint development project. The two countries are carrying out the KF-21 (Indonesian name IF-X) project to jointly develop a fighter jet by jointly covering a project cost of 8.1 trillion won from 2015 to 2026.

In January 2016, Indonesia paid 20% of the KF-21 development cost, about 1.7 trillion won (later reduced to about 1.6 trillion won), until June 2026, and received one prototype and various technical data, and received the fighter jet. It was decided to produce 48 units locally in Indonesia.

However, after paying only KRW 227.2 billion as of January 2019, the contribution was not paid for nearly 4 years due to budget shortages, and only an additional payment of KRW 9.4 billion was made in November of last year and about KRW 41.7 billion in February of this year. If all goes according to plan, more than 1.1 trillion won should have been paid so far, but Indonesia has only paid 278.3 billion won and is currently in arrears of nearly 1 trillion won. clap@yna.co.kr

Report via KakaoTalk okjebo <Copyright holder (c) Yonhap News, unauthorized reproduction and redistribution prohibited> 2023/09/18 13:57 Sent
Look up details

 

Does this mean that South Korea threw out Indonesia?
You need to read my previous post from Yonhap.

Please dont conversate with me in this thread. I want to use this thread as place to put information only. You can tag me in Indonesian Defense Forum thread if you want more explanation.
 
Indonesian gov has already set aside budget for its cost share payment for next year in 2024, much bigger than previous cost share payment in 2022 and 2023.

Source : my connection on the KFX/IFX team.

I expect 2025 payment for Indonesian cost share will be much bigger as Democrat Party, KFX program initiator from Indonesian side, end up joining Prabowo camp. I believe SBY will likely ask Prabowo for more budget for KF21 program, including budget for IFX production line and possible budget for internal research on fighter program in Indonesia.

Budget for 2025 will be set in June - July 2024 and need parliament approval. So far parliament is very pro KF21 program. Budget proposal should be already been given to Finance Minister before second round Presidential election in early June 2024. Three candidates and both Prabowo and Ganjar are the most popular.

I want to wait Ganjar team program on KF21, but generally Indonesians are very nationalistic and pro local industry. We have law that forbid buying foreign defense equipment if local industry can make it.

Pro IFX team will surely want to see KF21 program is discussed in Presidential Debate. The channel to approach Ganjar team and bring Ganjar team better information on the program is quite open.

Arsjad Rasjid is Ganjar campaign team head and he is from KADIN (Business Chamber). In KADIN there is technolog like Ilham Habibie that could enter Indonesian next cabinet or at least will be much closer to power if Ganjar is elected, he is pro technology approach as way to accelarate our economy (Habibienomics- our term). Megawati, head of PDIP, is the number one position in BRIN, gov research institute. Look like she has some interest on research.

I expect Prabowo picked Golkar head as VP and Ganjar pick Sandiaga Uno as VP. This lead to bigger chance for Ganjar to win. Research program is included in Ganjar program and he is very likely giving more budget for research compared to Jokowi administration. Ganjar is leading in latest survey.

I am optimist that Indonesian next government will give more support on the program inshaAllah.

Unlikely Indonesia will not pay its cost share in the program. With Democrat in Prabowo camp, so I expect any result in 2024 Presidential Election will likely be positive for KF21 program inshaAllah.
 
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I expect 2025 payment for Indonesian cost share will be much bigger as Democrat Party, KFX program initiator from Indonesian side, end up joining Prabowo camp. I believe SBY will likely ask Prabowo for more budget for KF21 program, including budget for IFX production line and possible budget for internal research on fighter program in Indonesia.

Unlikely Indonesia will not pay its cost share in the program. With Democrat in Prabowo camp, so I expect any result in 2024 Presidential Election will likely be positive for KF21 program inshaAllah.
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Jakarta. A Democratic Party executive said on Tuesday that the party has relinquished its ambition to nominate Chairman Agus Harimurti Yudhoyono as a vice-presidential candidate, following its decision to join a new coalition.

As a new member of the coalition supporting Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto's nomination for the upcoming February presidential election, the Democratic Party's influence in proposing Agus as a running mate has diminished.

"Our chance to have AHY as the running mate is not as strong as when we belonged to the previous coalition, which we helped co-build," said Herman Khaeron, the party's head of the membership and organizational management division, referring to Agus by his initials.

Initially, the Democratic Party formed a coalition with two other parties to nominate former Jakarta Governor Anies Baswedan for president, with the hope that Agus would become his running mate.

 
Alhamdulillah


KF21 flying.jpg


How many IFX (Indonesian KF21 version) Indonesian Aerospace will likely produce ? My estimation is 150 - 300 planes.

48 firm order is just the minimum one. Unlikely we only produce just 48 planes as we have defense law that forbid foreign defense equipment to be ordered if there is alternative from local industry and we need to build the production line as well in Indonesia. The economy side is also expected to help the program as Indonesia is projected to be fifth largest economy in nominal term (already number 7 in purchasing parity term) in 2050.

Need to note that Indonesia is part of developer since the start, it is not license manufacturing. My connection in KFX/IFX team also said that the cooperation in KFX/IFX program is similar like Indonesia cooperation in CN235 as joint developer.

KF21 can possibly be blood line of Indonesian Aerospace.

Bonus : I already suggested to KFX/IFX team for Indonesian Aerospace to develop Stealth Wingman drone after KF21/IFX program is completed. So if one KF21 can control 3 wingman drone in the future, we can see how many sales that can be generated from this KF21/IFX program for Indonesian Aerospace = (KF21/IFX planes + KF21 value chain (parts production for all KF21 population internationally and domestically) + Wingman drone + MRO + Continuous Upgrade Program).

The wingman drone can also be used for individual role so the side effect of the program is really huge according to me. With additional program, the engineering capabilities of Indonesian aerospace engineers will likely be growing. Furthermore, Local avionics company like Info Global can possibly grow much faster from this program as well. PT LEN Industry as electronics defense company also has chance to get benefit from this program.
 
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Comparison of C100 design released in December 2012

(Designed by ADD Korea + Indonesian engineers (PTDI+ITB) ). KAI Korea and Lockheed Martin only joined the program since 2016.

KFX C 103 design.png


With actual plane released in 2021.

KF21 shape.jpeg
 
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